---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Beer in 2 liter plastic bottles ("Justin A. Aborn")
  Copyrights, etc. ("Dr. John")
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #639 (May 17, 1991) (Walter H. Gude)
  Prohibitionism ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Hops Plugs ("William F. Pemberton")
  FTP'ing the recipe book... (Jay Littlepage)
  wort aerating machines (krweiss)
  The late Dave Line (BREIN)
  Recipe book problem. (Charles Anderson)
  ginger beer (mike_schrempp)
  Re: Leaf vs Pellets (larryba)
  Stoned Beer (C.R. Saikley)
  Brewpubs in Nashville, Tenn. ("Andy Wilcox")
  manhattan brew pub ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Re: Saccharine in OP-like recipe (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: Wort Aerator Question (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: hop question (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Corn-on-the-pub (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  wiskey mashes (chip upsal)
  Aha!  You Caught That! (Martin A. Lodahl)
  The Cat's Meow (David Taylor)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Fri, 17 May 91 8:36:22 EDT
From: "Justin A. Aborn" <jaborn at BBN.COM>
Subject:  Beer in 2 liter plastic bottles

I called the Pepsi Cola consumer information hotline
(800-433-2652) to ask about whether the plastic bottles they use
are "alright" for beer.  They directed me to the "Plastic Bottle
Institute" in Washington D.C. (202-371-5200). 

The nice man at the PBI said that the 2 liter bottles used for
soda are made out of PolyEthylene Terathalate (sp?) or PET.  This
used for liquor and beer bottles in Japan and the UK.  He thought
there were no worries.  Who knows...

Justin
Brewer and Patriot

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Date:         Fri, 17 May 91 08:26:56 EDT
From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Copyrights, etc.

In today's digest (#639) Kent Forschmiedt suggested that by posting recipes
from Dave Lines book to the digest we are blatantly violating copyright laws.

Well, it seems to me that if proper credit is given, as it has been, there
probably isn't much of a problem.  As to reparations to Dave Line, that might
be rather difficult as he is no longer among the living.  If buying his books
helps to support his wife and child I'm all for it, in fact I own both the
"Big Book of Brewing" and "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" and find them
both to be very interesting.
  As to the possible copyright infringement again, it seems to me that one of
the main reasons for the digest is educational, and I beleive the copyright
laws allow copyrighted material to be photocopied for educational purposes.

  And lastly, this gives me an opening to broach a subject that has been
bothering me for some time.  To my knowledge, Dave Line was the originator
of the alpha acid units concept.  Now, for those of you who read Zymurgy,
have you ever noticed the striking similarity between Homebrew Bittering Units
and alpha acid units?  (a rose by any other name . . . :-))  I am open to
arguments against my position, but I currently think that Zymurgy has
shamelessly ripped off Lines concept here, and have never seen him given the
credit I think he is due.  It doesn't seem to me that it would be that much
trouble for Zymurgy to add on stinking little credit line to the sidebar to the
recipe column and properly credit the man who discovered this concept.

I apologize if this seems like flaming to some, but it has been sticking in my
craw for some time now.  Any information on the subject will be gratefully,
and humbly if necessary, accepted.

  BTW, if anyone is interested in obtaining a copy of "Brewing Beers Like
Those You Buy" and can't find one, e-mail me.  Our local brew shop has a few
copies and I'd be glad to arrange to send them to interested parties (supply
is somewhat limited and I don't know the price right now).

Good brewing,

Dr. John

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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 09:01:38 CDT
From: whg at tellab5.tellabs.COM (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #639 (May 17, 1991)


The last couple HBD's got blown away by my idiotocy.   Are the archieves
at an ftp site or is there an archieve server?  If its an ftp site, I can't
get there so could someone send me the last HBD (#638).  If its a server
type, could someone fill me in on the magic words to use.


Thanks
Walter


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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 13:53 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Prohibitionism



     Date: 17-May-91      Time: 09:57 AM       Msg: EXT01152

From Thursday's New York Times:

Albany, May 15 (AP) - A State Senator who wants to ban the sale of
non-alcoholic beer to minors said today that it was a "training beverage for
the real thing."
  Several brands of non-alcoholic beer on the market look, smell and taste so
much like real beer that people under 21 should not be allowed to drink it,
said the Senator, Thomas Libous, a Republican of Broome County.
  "We spend millions of dollars annually educating young people throughout New
York about the negative consequences that result from alcohol abuse, yet we
allow access to a beverage that is brewed, packaged and marketed as a beer
substitute," he said, adding that it was "sending conflicting signals."
  His bill had no sponsor in the Assembly as of today, but it was supported by
several groups fighting drunken driving, as well as by the New York Parents and
Teachers Association.
  Beer companies that also produce the non-alcoholic brew oppose the bill.

Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY

=Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, I can not receive mail in that fashion.
Please send all mail to
INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com
OR
MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753  MBX: katman.wnets385



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Date:     Fri May 17 11:26:14 1991
From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  Hops Plugs


Well with all this talk about pellets and loose hops, I figure I should
jump in with a recommendation for a new form of hops - plugs.  The hop
plugs are hops that have been compressed, but not so much as a pellet.

The plugs come in vacuum sealed foil pouches.  I have been using these for
my last several batches and I am quite impressed.  Storage is a problem
with any type of hop, pellets store better, but they still have problems
(unless you get them in vacuum bags also).

I had been unhappy with the quality of hops that I could obtain when the
homebrew store I use got in the plugs.  I gave them a try and they are
just amazing.  When you add them to the boil, they fluff up into loose
hops again.  FRESH!

If you can get them, I strongly recommend the hop plugs!

Bill

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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 08:31:34 PDT
From: Jay.Littlepage at Corp.Sun.COM (Jay Littlepage)
Subject: FTP'ing the recipe book...

Hello,

I'd like to FTP the recipe book, but I have never FTP'd off anything
other than newsstop.  Can someone on the alias please clue me on how to
FTP outside of Sun?  Do I do something to the host address?

	homebrew% ftp -n mthvax.cs.miami.edu
	mthvax.cs.miami.edu: unknown host

Thanks,

Jay


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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 09:25:34 -0700
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: wort aerating machines

Davin Lim asks about filtering air that will be used to aerate wort.

You can home build a very effective air filter. Get a 12" length of 2" or
3" PVC pipe, and a couple of endcaps. Drill small holes in the endcaps and
attach very small hose barbs, or just use silicon gunk and glue airline
tubing right to the caps. Attach one cap to the PVC pipe. Put a small wad
of acrylic filter floss in the bottom of the pipe. Fill most of the pipe
with activated carbon. Add another wad of filter floss, and cap the other
end. Just friction fit the cap on the other end, and tape it for an
airseal. This filter will remove 99% of airborne crud, and will last about
six months in continuous operation. For a homebrewer, it will probably last
a lifetime.

BTW, if you're going to pursue this idea you might try to locate ceramic
airstones. These can be cleaned by heating with a propane torch -- a handy
way to ensure that the airstone is sanitary.\


Ken Weiss                                  krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Manager of Instruction
Computing Services                         916/752-5554
U.C. Davis
Davis, CA 95616


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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 09:47:10 PDT
From: BREIN at dsfvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
Subject: The late Dave Line

>> Date: Wed, 15 MAY 91 12:54:47 BST
>> From: GAINS at vax.lse.ac.uk
>> 
>> Having recieved a *considerable* number of requests for recipes for
>> Bishops Tipple and Old Peculier, I have decided to send the recipes
>> and quoted method to HBD. This is quite a lengthy message and I
>> apologise to those who have the book. For those who haven't,
>> however, the details are:
>> 
>>     Brewing Beers like those you buy
>>                    - David Line
>>                      ISBN 0 900841 51 6
>
>[ text of recipes elided ]
>I am no expert in these matters, but isn't this a blatant violation
>of copyright?  I mean, the whole point of selling the book is that
>people have to buy it to get the recipes.  I believe that an apology
>and perhaps some reparation is due Dave Line, not the readers of the
>HBD who got free copies of unautorized excerpts from Line's book.

My copy of Dave Line's "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" says that he died in
1980, so any recompense is due his estate.  I suppose one could apologize to his
widow or solicitor...

Barry Rein
BREIN at GPVAX.JPL.NASA.GOV

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Date: 	Fri, 17 May 1991 11:16:07 -0500
From: caa at com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson)
Subject: Recipe book problem.

Well I went off and grabbed the recipe book, it's real neat except for
one thing.  It has the actual characters in the file for special
characters.  What I mean is that there is a $D5 in the file for a
tick which gets the high bit stripped off of and ends up printing as
a U.  If you have this problem you probably need to do as I did and
replace characters like this with there octal equivalent. (\325 for $D5
etc...)  I wrote a little perl script that does it for me.  Here it is.

perl -e 'while(<>){s/[\200-\377]/sprintf("\\%3o",unpack("C",$&))/ge;print;}'
			recipe-file | lpr

- -- 
/-Charles-Anderson-\   |       caa at c2s.mn.org || caa at midgard.mn.org 
\------------------/   | Com Squared Systems,          voice (612) 452-9522
The rose goes in front | 1285 Corporate Center Drive    fax  (612) 452-3607
big guy -Crash Davis   | Suite 170 | Eagan,  MN 55121  (I speak for myself)

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Date:        17 May 91 08:10 -0800
From: mike_schrempp%42 at hp4200
Subject:     ginger beer

There's lots of talk on Gingered beer, so here's my 2 cnets.

The last beer I brewed was an all grain Pilsner, using all pale malt. After
a few weeks of fermenting, I racked off some and added fresh ginger. This was
a great way to try a little ginger. I made only 6 bottles and got to try
something different. Here were my steps:

1. Racked off 6 pints of wort from the secondary into a clean 1 gallon jug.
   The wort OG was 1.040 and was 1.009 at this point.

2. Grated up a bunch of fresh ginger from the supermarket. I added 1/2 teaspoon
   to 1/2 cup of boiling water (hopefully to kill off the bad guys without
   losing the ginger flavor).

3. Added to the jug and attached airlock.

4. Bottled two weeks later. SG 1.007.

Its been in hte bottle for a month now adn I just had my first one yesterday.
My observations:

1. Too much ginger for a pilsner. This ginger rate might do for a medium ale.

2. The ginger seemed to add some additional bitterness.

3. No infection problems.

4. Good ginger aroma and taste.

5. The head went away. The remaining Pilsner has the best head of any beer I've
   made. The ginger version has none.

6. This method of trying out a new thing was great. Same base, change only one
   variable, compare results, lose 6 beers if it doesn't work.

My question for those that have made ginger beers with good balance, what kind
of final gravity did your beer have? You know, how much sweet to balance the
ginger?


Mike Schrempp


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Date: Fri May 17 08:48:31 1991
From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Leaf vs Pellets

There does appear to be differences between bittering abilities of pellet and
whole hops.  Two references, "The Practical Brewer" and a late issue of
Zymurgy indicated about 20% greater bittering power of pellets (~32% vs 27%
isormerisation of Alpha Acid) over whole leaf.  The difference seems to be
due to the complete rupturing of the resin glands in the pellets.  Of course,
if the pellets were stored improperly, then this works against you.  The
Zymurgy issue had a table of isomerization rates/boil time but didn't
distiguish between pellets and whole leaf hops.  As for aroma, fresh pellets
sure smell good and do a good number on my beers.  I use whole leaf for dry
hopping.



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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 11:25:40 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Stoned Beer


- ------------------------------

From: David Lim <limd at sulu.Colorado.EDU>

>I recently read in a back issue of Zymurgy a aeration device based on 
>a little pump which pumped air through an aeration "stone".  The
>"stone" emitted air bubbles fine enough to efficiently aerate the
>wort.  The test by someone on the Zymurgy staff concluded that this
>gadget produced a better result (i.e. shorter lag time) than simply
>shaking the fermenter to aerate. 


I'd be most concerned about sterilizing the stone. All of those tiny
little pores sound like the perfect environment for critters to hide
from bleach or boiling water or whatever you use to sterilize. Dropping
this into your cool, fertile wort at its most vulnerable time sounds
risky at best.

CR




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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 15:49:11 -0400
From: "Andy Wilcox" <andy at eng.ufl.edu>
Subject: Brewpubs in Nashville, Tenn.


Subject line says it all.  I'll be in Nashville for the
summer Usenix conference next month, and would like to
see what's out there beer-wise.

/Andy


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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 20:07 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: manhattan brew pub



     Date: 17-May-91      Time: 04:09 PM       Msg: EXT01166

Hello,
several people have sent me e-mail about brew pubs in Manhattan and surrounding
areas. I only know of one, Manhattan Brewing Co. 40 Thompson St. 212-219-9250.
I also called the Brooklyn Brewing Co. (Brooklyn Lager) 318 2 St. Brooklyn
718-768-2346 to see if they gave tours. Brooklyn Lager is brewed upstate in
Utica. The Brooklyn location is only a distribution center. Bummer. If anyone
is interested in Philadelphia brew pubs (they have TWO :) or bars with good
selections in Philly, I'll e-mail you the "Philadelphia Magazine" article on
the subject. On that note, apparently NRI is having trouble with their Internet
to MCI Mail link. If you get a bounce from my address, try again in a day.

Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY

=Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, I can not receive mail in that fashion.
Please send all mail to
INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com
OR
MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753  MBX: katman.wnets385



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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 15:48:01 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Saccharine in OP-like recipe

Dan Graham writes:
>Peculiar like brew.  I'd rather not use the saccharin tablets, though.

I have not tried this recipe, but I would suggest trying Wyeast
Irish Ale yeast.  It is not very attenuative and leaves the brew quite
sweet.  If that's not sweet enough, you can add Lactose which is not
fermentable by most yeasts.
Al.
korz at ihlpl.att.com


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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 16:14:54 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Wort Aerator Question

>"bubbler-stone" (I don't know the proper name) came from the same
>pet store.  There was also a filter in the hose between the output
>of the pump and the stone.  This filter supposedly filtered out any
>airborne contaminants before it reached the wort. 
>
>Here's my questions:  What type of filter is this?  Is the claim of
>filtering out any harmful airbornes valid?  If so where can I get one
>of these filters? 

I know that the "stone" part is right... can't say about the "bubbler"
part.  I've heard stones are used to carbonate the finished beer in
some breweries.

Anyway, I got a good laugh when I read this review in Zymurgy.  Whether
the manufacturer doesn't understand biology or wants to "pull one over
on us" or the reviewer made this up, I would expect a Zymurgy staffer
to know better than to write that a filter "STERILIZED" the air!
I assure you that no filter can sterilize air.  Even sanitization
is probably impossible (I'm not a biologist either).  At best, the
filter will remove large airborne particulates, which (when you think
about it) is better than simply sloshing your beer around to aerate it.
Al.


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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 16:23:46 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: hop question

>There is no such thing as leaf hops.
I've always called them "leaf hops" to distinguish from pelletized
hops.  I use pelletized hop for boiling and finishing and use
"leaf hops" for dry hopping.  I use hop bags (fine, polyester mesh
bags) so the transfer tube part is a mute point.  I've read (and
verified empirically) that hops in the pelletized form stay fresh
longer.
Al.


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Date: Fri, 17 May 91 16:34:36 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Corn-on-the-pub

Florian writes:
>While we are on the subject of alternate grains, let me (how can
>you stop me?) talk about corn.  I have been using corn in lager
>for a while now.  It produces a cleaner, clearer, dryer lager, and
>this is just fine for making pilsener.

I brew my own because I can buy clean, clear, dry, beer at Bobz Liquor's.
Hmmm?  Isn't this the same florian who praised the taste of Budweiser?
All the pieces are beginning to fit together...


		...sorry florian, it's been a tough week.

Al the instigator.


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Date: 18 May 91 00:53:09 EDT
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: wiskey mashes

I hate to get off the topic of homebrew but this raises some interesting
points:

mcnally at wsl.dec.com writes:

>In HBD 635, C. R. Saikley mentions that rye is malted in Scotland for
>whiskey, but no-one imports it here.  That seems mighty strange to me,
>since I was under the impression that American whiskies are made with
>rye while Scotch whiskey is made from barley.  It may be that the Scots
>use rye as an adjunct, but I'd think that the quantities use would be
>dwarfed by American whiskey production.

I was under the impression most American wiskies used corn.
As far as Scottish wiskey goes I know the single malt varities use only
malted barley.
Does anybody know what goes into what type of wiskies?

Chip


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Date: Sat, 18 May 91 15:14:48 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Aha!  You Caught That!

In HOMEBREW Digest #639, the amazingly perceptive Ron Rader noticed:

>> We are under attack, and must be very careful of the image we present,
>> how we present it, and to whom.
>> 
>> = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
>> = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =
>
>  Gimme that ol' time religion, indeed!
>
>  No offense to Martin, I just found these two bits of his posting quite
> amusing when read together.

Ah, you caught that!  So did I, and for a moment I considered
excising it from my .sig before sending out the posting.  What
stopped me was the feeling that to do so would be to hand them a
(small) victory; in effect, to strike my colors before their guns. 
No, even though it looks a bit jarring, I will continue to use
that .sig, and the club will continue to have a booth at the State
Fair.  Inviting Minions of the Law and camera crews to the meetings,
however, may well be another matter ...

I notice your .sig includes the couplet:
> | |  i gotta six-pack & nothing to do...
> | | i gotta six-pack & i don't need you

Heh, heh ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 14:02 EST
From: David Taylor <DAVID at phillip.edu.au>
Subject: The Cat's Meow

Gooday

Thanks to Mark and Karl for compiling 'The Cat's Meow'. My copy was
FTP'd between several nodes before arriving in Postscript form on a
Macintosh - then it was dumped to a Laserwriter. Some of the chapters
were a few pages short but we put that down to Apple's PS interpreter.

More importantly, the recipes were terrific and give a clear picture of
the types of brews being made in the US. There's a lot of experimentation
going on with fruit and spices, honey etc. I've gained enough ideas to
keep me brewing for a long time!

Almost all recipes did not use cane sugar (those that did were of UK
origin). I'm weaning my own brews off cane sugar (commonly used and
argued about by Aus. homebrewers too) and with Wyeast liquid cultures
am hoping for excellent results.

Our commercial brewers seem to be able to handle cane sugar well,
producing beer devoid of body and flavour yet with 5% alcohol. When I
try to make a similar strength brew without sugar the malt comes through
strongly. So... why don't  *you*  use cane sugar?

Cheers...  David

I'd better put the disclaimer in this time!  MINE! MINE! MINE!


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #640, 05/20/91
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