---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  aeration (Bill Crick)
  Mackeson Stout (Mike Charlton)
  Hops. (Ken Schriner)
  Re: Double Bock (Chris Shenton)
  Wo kann Ich kaufe Weizenbier Hefe von MeV? (Chris Shenton)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #676 (July 10, 1991)  (Death is the only Solution)
  Ninkasi beer (Rick Myers)
  Power Brews, Brew Pub Guides, Aeration (hersh)
  Yeast start (POST)
  possible aphid solution ("Peter Karp")
  Small batches
  strange fruit (lg562)
  dry brewing?!?! (Dave Barrett)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 	Tue, 9 Jul 1991 11:25:51 -0400
From: hplabs!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: aeration

Regarding pumping air into wort: there is a local outfit,  named Spirit
Brewing Systems sells a beermaking "machine" that is basically aplastic carboy, 
and a setup for pumping air into the wort.
 Their major sales pitch is to new brewers, or people who aren't 
brewers. The major point is that the problem with most hombrews is lack
of oxygen in the wort, and their "system" solves this. The system 
is an aquarium pump, a small (1" dia.) filter holder, that holds a small
filter disk, and a "special" airstone that goes on the end of a tube that
sticks into the wort. All of the equipment is "special, exclusive, designer,
..........", but to me it looked like your basic aquarium pump, lab type
disc filter holder with 2um paper filters, and your basic aquairum pumice
airstone. They recomend several hours of aeration after you do the 
basic open the can, pour and stir trick with the extract.
 The aeration system described should work well for those of you who want to 
aerate your wort.

Oh, by the way, their extracts are special, better, exclusive......
ONe interesting thing is that the extract contained whole leaf hops.
The beer they served was reasonable for a non boiled, corn sugar kit brew,
but regardless of the name or style, they all tasted, and felt like an extra
light draft style Anerican or Canadian lager.

Bill Crick



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 18:58:23 CST
From: mike at ranger.bison.mb.ca (Mike Charlton)
Subject: Mackeson Stout

  We get Mackeson stout on tap at a local bar around here and I've had
quite a bit of it.  I've never had the bottled stuff, so what I have to say
may or may not be relevant.  Anyway, here is my impression of the beer.  It
is extremely dark (it seems even darker than Guinness, but I can't be sure
as I've only had Guinness a few times).  I've seen some stats about
Mackeson (in Fred Eckhart's book and various other places) and I just don't
believe the typical colour ratings given to it.  Anyway, the beer is fairly
bitter, but has a cloying sweetness that balances the bitterness nicely.
The beer is quite mouth-coating which tends to hide the graininess.  It is
also fairly estery (I detect some cherry in it).  Unlike many stouts, I
don't detect any diacetyl.

  My brewing partner is quite enraptured with this brew and has devised a
recipe that comes quite close.	He doesn't want the recipe spread around
just yet, though, so I'll give some hints without actually giving away his
recipe.  Lots of crystal malt (a pound or more).  This gives the beer a
nice smooth flavour and increases the colour without adding astringency
(he used 60 Lovibond crystal, but if you can get 90 Lovibond, it might be
even better). Most of the colour should come from black malt (pehaps a
little chocolate malt as well), but no roast barley. Adding blackstrap
molasses gives it a bit of a zing which I find necessary. Finally, the
secret ingredient: lots of brewer's licorice (1 or 2 5 inch sticks).
Ferment with an unattenuative ale yeast (a german alt bier yeast actually
works quite well).  For hops, northern brewer or something similar to the
tune of 70+ IBUs (mostly bittering).  Since Mackeson is brewed by
Whitbread, he used a water treatment that comes close to the typical values
given for London water.  It seemed to work all right.

  I believe that the flavour the original poster was commenting on was
probably a mixture of licorice and the flavour that occurs from adding
molasses.  The interesting thing about my above comments is that most of
them fly directly in the face of the many recipes I've seen for Mackeson
clones.  All I can say is that my brewing partner's beer is extremely good
and reasonably close to Mackeson.

  One other interesting note. My brewing partner and I have been trying to
make a Guinness clone for some time and have tried the recipes from both
Line and Miller.  Neither of these seemed to have the "creaminess" that I
associate with Guinness.  Taking a cue from the experiments with the
Mackeson clone, we added large amounts of crystal malt to our latest
Guinness effort.  In combination with the astringency of the barley, this
produced that elusive feeling (I call it a feeling because it really isn't
a flavour) of creaminess.

			Hope somebody finds this interesting,
				    Mike

Return to table of contents


Date:         Wed, 10 Jul 91 07:54:00 CDT
From: Ken Schriner <KS06054 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
Subject:      Hops.

All of this talk about hops has raised a question in my mind.  When will
Freshops have their 91 crop harvested and ready for sale?  Every time I
call them, all I get is a phone answering machine asking me for my order.
Is there a "good" time to call?  Does anyone have any information about
the hops harvest in oregon?  When is it?  Will this year's be a good one?

One note on aphids.  I cure this in my garden by starting a fungus (or a
mold or disease) to kill the aphids.  Collect a bunch of aphids (no small
task) in a container.  Mash them up, let it sit for a while, add some water,
spray it on the infected plants.  These mashed up aphids end up creating
some kind of plague for the still living aphids.  They are usually gone in
a couple of days, repeat as necessary.  Of course, you have to use exactly
a _bunch_ of aphids, and if you use more than _some_ water, no way this will
work. :-)

Ken Schriner (501) 575-2905            BITNET : ks06054 at uafsysb
U of A, Computing Services           Internet : ks06054 at uafsysb.uark.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 11:11:17 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Double Bock

On Tue, 9 Jul 91 08:38:56 EDT, hplabs!ames!rutgers!alliant.com!obrien (Bob Obrien) said:

Bob> ... Sam Adams Double Bock beer [had] a nice malt flavor with
Bob> plenty of hops aroma and taste. However I found it to be very sweet
Bob> tasting.  Is double bock supposed to be a sweet tasting beer ...

I enjoy bockbier *very* much, but I found SADB annoyingly sweet and
unbalanced; I won't drink it again -- too cloying.

Yes, bocks in general and dopplebocks in particular tend to be sweet, but
it's a maltiness, not a pure sweetness that you're after. And it should be
balanced by a healthy dose of hops.

Excellent samples of bock I've found include: Eggenberger Ur-Bock (pale),
Ayinger [Mai]bock (amberish), or Celebrator (dark dopplebock). If you need
a kick-in-the-head-dopplebock, try EKU-28 or Samiclaus.

Bis spaeter!


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 11:22:11 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Wo kann Ich kaufe Weizenbier Hefe von MeV?

Where can I buy MeV's Weizenbier yeast? I used to get it from Brewhaus
(TN), but he's stopped selling it.

Thanks.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 09:48:43 PDT
From: Death is the only Solution <"b_turnbaugh" at csc32.enet.dec.com>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #676 (July 10, 1991) 

Would someone please send me Digest #675????  Also would someone please
send me some tips/recipes on making hard apple cider. Apples will be
picked in a month or so and I have a juicer. I would like to make a 
sweeter cider.     Thanks: Bob T.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 11:04:34 MDT
From: Rick Myers <fc.hp.com!hp-lsd!hpctdpe!rcm at hpfcla>
Subject: Ninkasi beer
Full-Name: Rick Myers


If Anchor brewery's recreation of the ancient Mesopotamian beer, Ninkasi,
has piqued anybody's interest, well, they should check out the latest
issue of _Archaeology_ (July/August 1991)!  It has an excellent article
written by the great(!) Fritz Maytag, along with Solomon H. Katz.  They
talk about some of the reasons why Anchor decided to brew the beer in the
first place, such as answering the question, 'what did man make first, beer
or bread?'.  Anchor didn't just brew this beer to see how it tasted, but also
to help answer this and other scientific questions about ancient history.
The article has the most current translation of the 'Hymn to Ninkasi' which
is found on a nineteenth-century B.C. clay tablet, which contains a recipe
for Sumerian beer.  The article also has some pictures of the Anchor
brewing the ancient nectar.  Check it out!

   "You are the one who soaks the malt in a jar,
    The waves rise, the waves fall.
    Ninkasi, you are the one who soaks the malt in a jar,
    The waves rise, the waves fall."

Rick
- --
Rick Myers    rcm at col.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard
Colorado Telecommunications Division

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 13:13:30 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Power Brews, Brew Pub Guides, Aeration


As a point of info, the Supreme Court has upheld that it is OK to 
limit commercial advertising (why cigarettes can't be advertised on TV &
Radio), since advertising is not considered free speech (after all 45% of the
price of a Budweiser goes to advertising & promotions, that's not free). 
Free speech is limited only to Political Speech essentially (artistic &
religious also lumped in there).

I agree that we must fight this insipid attempt to limit brew strengths.
Perhaps we can convince George Bush (King George??) that this movement
amounts to restraint of trade?? Unfortunately many states do already limit
alcohol content in beers.

>The editor/publisher of the _World Beer Review_,
>Steve Johnson, has compiled 'the only current, comprehensive guide
>to U.S. brewpubs and microbreweries'

Oh contraire, Monsueir, Pat Baker's Beer Bar Atlas, also lists beer bars,
brewpubs, etc.. for North America. It's cheaper, though perhaps less
comprehensive. I had to get a plug in for this as I was a contributor.


 - JaH

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
assume that you are moderate in everything.
you now have an excess of moderation, a contradiction.

excessiveness is clearly the way to go...


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 11:05 PST
From: POST at VAXT.llnl.gov
Subject: Yeast start

I would appreciate some input here, folks....

I brewed a nice pale ale on Sunday.  I started the yeast on saturday (wyeast 
british, to be exact), it puffed by Sunday, went into the starter bottle, and 
was overnight in the brewfridge w/the primary Sunday night.  Monday morning was 
the "innoculation" of starter into the primary.  I laid a nice coat of CO2 over 
the wort after I racked into it, so the oxygen surface potential is rather low.
I have *no* activity yet...I usually have a nice head by now. It's all been at 
55F the whole time...Any comments, besides DWHAHB 8^)? Anybody else experience a 
long respiration lag lately?

Yep, I've had several relaxing brews 8^)....

thanks fer yer help, folks...

THANKS,ROB, for a great digest...
- --
_______________________________________________________________________
John Post                      | I'm the only responsible one....
Lawrence Livermore Lab         | At least about this stuff.
post1 at llnl.gov                 |
post@ vaxt.llnl.gov             | I'm from the government, and I'm here 
                               | to help you....Right!

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 14:20:15 EDT
From: karp at unix1.cs.umass.edu ("Peter Karp")
Subject: possible aphid solution

I'm no gardener but I checked out Rodale's Encylopedia of Herbs to find
some organic solutions to the attack of the aphids.
Other plants may help keep aphids off of the hops. Borage is said to
strengthen the resistance to insects and disease of any plants neighboring it".
They also list the following herbs specifically for use against aphids
"Most aromatic herbs, including catnip, chives, corieander, eucalyptus,
fennel, garlic, larkspur, marigold, mustard, nasturtium, peppermint and
spearmint".  Spraying sacrificial plants with a hop tea may keep the little
buggers away. Also try washing the hops vine with soapy water.
Peter

Return to table of contents


Date:     Wed, 10 Jul 91 15:48:03 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>

Subject: Small batches

   I would like to start doing partial mashes, lets say 2-5 lbs of
grains.  I want to make a lauter tun, the old pail in pail type, what
I would like to know is what size pails I would need for small sparges.
I've heard that you should sparge with a minimum grain bed of four (4)
inches, I have pails that are 9.5" in diameter are these to large?  Also
If anybody else does small batches could you please give any hints or
tips on this size batch.



                                              B^2

Return to table of contents


Date: 	Wed, 10 Jul 1991 18:10:44 -0400
From: "N. Zentena" <zen at utcs.utoronto.ca>

        Hi,

           I've got a couple of questions I hope that
           somebody can help me with.
       First of all has anybody ordered from the AHA the
       book called "Hops" by R.A. Neve? At $60 I was
       wondering if it was worth the money.
 
       Secondly does anybody in the Toronto area grow hops?
       I planted several types this year and would like to
       know when I might expect the cones to be ripe.
 
       Lastly there is a company called American Brewmaster
       that advertises in Zymurgy which sells digital
       thermometers and ph meters has anybody dealt with
       them? If so what do you think? Is it a good deal?
       Thanks
             Nick
             P.S. are Saaz cuttings available in the spring
             from anybody?

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 17:32:59 PDT
From: lg562 at koshland.pnl.gov
Subject: strange fruit

I have heard a lot of different things being put into homebrew, but I
haven't heard of anyone using apricots.  I have an apricot tree and
was wondering if anyone had any experience with apricot beer.  If so,
how many apricots would work in a 5 gal batch without overpowering the
beer?  Thanks!

Michael Bass
Molecular Science Research Center, K2-18
Battelle - Pacific Northwest Laboratory
Richland, Washington  99352
lg562 at pnl.gov


Return to table of contents


Date:         10 Jul 91 22:36:16 EST
From: Dave Barrett <DAVE.BARRETT at OFFICE.WANG.COM>
Subject:      dry brewing?!?!


Recently there has been a fair amount of Miller (the so called beer) bashing,
mostly about their treatment of hops oils and 'cold filtering'.  This
caused me to pay a bit more attention to the beer commericals I see on the
tube.  Last night I saw an ad for Bud Dry in which AB claimed that it is the
only 'cold filtered and dry brewed' beer available.

Does anybody know what the % at ?$?^$*??!! 'dry brewing' is? Its bad enough that
they seem to be reluctant to get anywhere near hops, but are they now trying
to tell us that they don't use water when they brew?

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #677, 07/11/91
*************************************
-------

---