---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Keg Question ("William F. Pemberton")
  Re: Homebrew Digest #687 (July 25, 1991 (tamar more)
  Juniper Porter (James Myles)
  counter pressure bottle fillers (Marty Albini)
  I hate bottling! (Stuart Crawford)
  Re: All grain mistakes (Ken Giles)
  Can you please add me to the mailing list (Les Rehklau)
  re: All grain mistakes  (Darryl Richman)
  GRG brews (Russ Gelinas)
  Eureka! (L.A. Brewing) (krweiss)
  Overpitching? (Carl West)
  Review of the Oregon Brewers Festival (Darryl Richman)
  STAINLESS STEEL POT (card)
  King Kooker (Ken Johnson)
  Glassware answer and water questions (Rich Lenihan)
  kegging beer spheres (Hyrum Laney) (John Stanford GEOACOUSTIC)
  "Dry Malting"? (Richard Stueven)
  kegs (Jack Schmidling)
  Bicarbonate and pH (Desmond Mottram)
  lager question (Mark Nickel)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:     Thu Jul 25 09:59:49 1991
From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  Keg Question


With all this keg discussion going on, a question has occured to me.  What
(if any) are the advantages/disadvantages to the different types of keg
connectors.

Is one somehow better then the other?  Or is the ball-lock and pin-lock just
so Pepsi stuff won't work with Coke stuff?

Thanks!
Bill

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Date:         Thu, 25 Jul 91 09:50:46 EDT
From: tamar more <ST402676 at brownvm.brown.edu>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #687 (July 25, 1991

we have a question concerning racking after having dry hopped. when we rack
to the bottling bucket, the hops plug the syphon and it takes about three
times of restarting the syphon to get all the beer out, and we end up with
stirring up more sediment than we like. we have
tried tying screen over the syphon but the hops just end up clogging the
screen. the problem is compounded by the secondary being one of those glass
carboys that has a fairly narrow neck, so the solution to our
problem has to be under an inch in diameter... any ideas?

tamar & steve

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 10:06:05 PDT
From: James Myles <myles at biostat.washington.edu>
Subject: Juniper Porter

There have been a couple of request for information on beer brewed
with Juniper berries. My partner and I have twice brewed Papazian's
everything-but-the-kitchen-sink porter (a.k.a. Goat Scrotum Ale)
using 1/4 cup juniper berries harvested clandestinely from the 
neighbor's bush. We crush the berries and include them in the boil. 
Otherwise we followed the recipe in the book exactly (including the 
liberal admonishments to relax etc).

This was our favourite brew until we discovered Wyeast and dry-hopping.
It had a very pleasant hint of juniper, not overpowering at all. The
flavor tended to decrease as the beer aged (> 5 weeks), so it provides
a good excuse to drink it up quick. 

I could mail the recipe, but it is in the partner's basement right now. 
Mail me if you want it and I'll try to get it into the system.

Just talking about it makes me want to try it again with the liquid 
yeast and some Cascade hops added to the secondary...

James Donald Myles		myles at biostat.washington.edu
Biostatistics SC-32             HSB Annex II Room 107, 543-2679
University of Washington        "Craft must have clothes, but truth
Seattle, WA, 98195      	loves to go naked." [Thomas Fuller]



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 10:07:11 PDT
From: Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com>
Subject: counter pressure bottle fillers

> From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
> 
> Tom Bower asks about bottling and kegging from the same batch:
> >   2.) Bottle some of the already-carbonated beer straight out of the keg.
> >       Are there any tricks/gotchas with this?  
> 
> I haven't tried bottling already-kegged beer, but I can confidently say
> that bottling carbonated beer (or any carbonated liquid for that matter)
> requires a counter-pressure filler.  
> [...]
> Foxx Equipment Co., KC, MO,
> 1-800-821-2254, makes an apparatus, which I have not yet bought, but
> I have had excellent service from Foxx.  Ask for the "Homebrew Expert"
> when you call -- the other salespeople may not be familiar with the
> homebrew equipment.

	Speaking (well, typing, anyway) as a
generally-satisfied Foxx customer and owner of one of their
counter pressure fillers...

	DON'T BUY ONE!

	You could make one in your garage for less money that
would probably work better. This product is junk, a pain in
the butt to use. The valves take too many turns to open or
close (which leads to foaming and painting your kitchen with
homebrew) and the handles will cut your fingers to ribbons.
Most pf the parts are brass, except for the ones that rust
solid the first time you use it.

	However...

> From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>

> I got mine from DeFalco's in Houston
> (713-523-8154) for about $50.00.  The thing is entirely stainless steel,
> and is a good value.  If you want to see mine, call me and I'll bring it in.

	I am going to give these peolpe a call. If it doesn't
look good, I'll probably make my own, built into the mechanism
of an old portable drill press I've got. Just pop the bottle
in, pull the handle, and pass the jug to the capper.

	Well, I'll probably intercept one or two...
- --
____________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"Thank god for long-necked bottles, the angel's remedy."--Tom Petty
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya at sdd.hp.com 
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 10:31:13 PDT
From: stuart at ads.com (Stuart Crawford)
Subject: I hate bottling!

I find bottling to be pretty boring, and am thinking of buying one of  
those Edme plastic dispensers.  The way I understand it, you go  
through primary and secondary fermentation as usual, but prime in  
this dispenser.

What kind of experience have you folks had with this device?  In  
particular, does it reliably maintain carbonation if you drink your  
beer over a fairly long (one or two months) period of time?

Thanks,

Stuart

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 09:00:33 PDT
From: keng at ic.MENTORG.COM (Ken Giles)
Subject: Re: All grain mistakes

Howdy ez005142, whoever you are.

I find that measuring and adjusting the pH is easy, so I recommend doing it. Is
it causing your low extract efficiency? Maybe, but I think it would have to be
extremely out of line (and high) for a 50% reduction. Let me tell you about the
evolution of my extract efficiency.

When I first started all-grain, I didn't have a mill, so I had the grains ground
at the homebrew supply store. The lautering system I use is a picnic cooler with
a false bottom constructed of 1/2 inch slotted copper tubing. In my first few 
batches I was getting maybe 70% of Miller's extraction rate. While searching for
a way to increase it, I read that during the sparge, the sparge water can have a
tendency to flow down the sides of the lauter tun, and that the problem can be
avoided by making a shallow depression in the grain. This keeps the sparge water 
directed away from the sides. Doing this got me an extra 5%. I thought I was
doing OK. Then, I got a grain mill as a gift (thanks Mom). When I ground my own
grain, I got pretty close to 100% extraction on the first time. Granted, I'd
learned a lot about all-grain brewing by then, but the finer grind made the
biggest difference.

So what I'm saying is that you should experiment with the coarseness of the
grind if you have the means. Next, make sure your sparging/lautering system is
working for you. Is the grain bed deep enough? It needs to be at least 8 inches
from what I've read. Is the sparge water really rinsing the grain and not
running down the sides? And go ahead and at least check the pH with pH papers.
You don't want to be above 6.0. Miller recommends 5.3.

As for adjusting pH, gypsum (calcuim sulphate) will lower it, and calcium
carbonate will raise it. I typically add these in 1 teaspoon increments for
ten gallons, with each teaspoon bumping the pH by a few tenths. I think! I'm
doing this from memory. Miller can help you with the amounts.

Sorry, I can't answer your bicarbonate question. You should be able to do
some compensation for pH by adjusting rest times, assuming the pH is within
reason. I can't give you any guidelines, though. The problem is that the 
enzymes that break the starch down rely on a particular pH range in order to
carry out their mechanics.

Hope this helps.

kg.

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 10:43:26 -0700
From: les at mips.com (Les Rehklau)
Subject: Can you please add me to the mailing list


Hi,  I'm very interested in being on your mailing list.  Could you please
     add me.

thanks

les

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 09:48:08 -0700
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: re: All grain mistakes 

> Does pH make all that big of a difference as Miller seems to think?
> Would pH have enough of an effect that it could reduce my yield to
> 50% of what it should be?.
> 
> How would one eliminate 500-700 ppm of bicarbonate in my brew water?
> (Yep, believe it or not, that's how much I've got!)

I would normally say that pH wouldn't likely have so strong an effect
on your mash extract, but that is a tremendous amount of bicarbonate,
which is a good alkaline buffer.  The starch converting enzymes like an
acid environment, but your mash will never overcome that buffer to get
down to 5.5-5.0.

You can boil your water and let it cool over night, then ladle it off
of the precipitate.

You can leave the carbonate in the water and force the pH down with
lactic acid (some inorganic acids like hydrochloric or sulphuric have
been used too, but I understand that they can be more noticable in the
final flavor).  However, carbonates can emphasize the harsh bitterness
of hops.

Also, even though Miller advises against it, using iodine can give you
a good idea about how your mash is proceeding.  If the iodine never
stops reacting (turning blue-black), you have a problem with conversion
that will result in a low yield.  Calibrate your thermometer in ice
water and boiling water so that you know you're in the right temp.
range.

Good luck,
		--Darryl Richman


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Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1991 14:10:02 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: GRG brews

Well thanks all, for the somewhat depressing dollar numbers concerning
starting up a brewpub/microbrewery.  I passed the info along to my brew-
buddy, and he wasn't thrilled either, but he was still interested.  He's
a metal-bender, so we could save money by building our own stuff.  There's
also been some negotiating with local microbrewers to open a branch office,
so to speak, in the unused space of his metal shop.  So there's still some
possibilities.  And no, don't go looking for Gelinas Beer.  It will be
called GRG beer, for Gary Rice and Russ Gelinas, but actually it will
stand for "Good, Real Good" beer.  }:-)  Look for it at fine restaraunts
and sleazy bars near you.....

Russ  (just who is this Darryl Richman guy anyway?)

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1991 11:12:08 -0800
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: Eureka! (L.A. Brewing)

Darryl Richman (that's just an alias, right?) writes:

>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 91 06:34:54 -0700
>From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
>Subject: re: Brewpub/micro startup costs
>
>On the far ends of the spectrum:  I think the guys at Lakefront spent a
>few $K putting theirs together.  But they did all their own work.  On
>the other hand, Los Angeles Brewing (Wolfgang Puck's operation) spent
>about $4M building a brewery that has the potential to grow larger than
>Anchor.  Frankly, I enjoy Lakefront's product quite a bit more;  I got
>to taste it again at the Oregon Brewer's Festival.  It's too bad that
>Puck apparently has no taste for beer (I'll not comment on the food he
>creates ;-).  Although LA Brewing makes a high quality beer, it is
>only one notch up from Michelob in interest level.  If you're in the LA
>area and want a good microbrewed lager, drink Alpine Village instead
>(I think their micro was about $500K).
>
>		--Darryl "Who, me?" Richman

I was gonna let it slide by, but since there's been all this Wolfie
bashing, I guess I'll chime in with my reaction to Eureka.

My mother-in-law lives about two blocks from the place, making it a
convenient crawl back to bed when we visit LA... I'd agree with Darryl's
evaluation -- the beers just didn't have much character. I tried the lager,
dark lager, and ale. None had significant malt character. The ale was best
of the lot.

No fooling about the potential capacity of that brewery. They have three (I
think 15 barrel) vessels in series, so they can mash, sparge, and boil in a
continuous process. Fully geared up, they can probably produce 3 batches
per day. The bartender said they were only using about 1/4 of their
potential fermentation and lagering capacity right now.

One thing Darryl didn't mention is the noise level in the restaurant. It's
at rock concert pitch. My ears were literally ringing when we left. Bar
none, the noisiest place I've ever eaten. And that includes Dodger Stadium.


Ken Weiss                                  krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Manager of Instruction
Computing Services                         916/752-5554
U.C. Davis
Davis, CA 95616


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 14:17:12 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Overpitching?

CAUTION! Barrage-O-Questions:


OK, so how much yeast is too much yeast? 
What are the flavor repercussions? 
Are there any warning signs? 
If I pitch a whole lot-o-yeast, should I not aerate so much? 
Does overpitching cause `yeast bite'?
If not, what does cause it?
What does it taste like?
Does it go away with age?

If this is all answered in Miller, Reese or Papazian, 
just say `RTFM' and I'll go back and do so.

thanks,

Carl


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 10:15:07 -0700
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: Review of the Oregon Brewers Festival

The Oregon Brewer's Festival

by Darryl Richman

Well, I've been to the Great American Beer Festival, I've been to the
Munich Oktoberfest, and I've tried the regional specialties at the last
three AHA Conferences--I guess it was just a matter of time before I went
to the Oregon Brewer's Festival.  But I should have done it sooner--and
so should you!

First of all, Portland is a lovely town, with many beautiful
attractions.  There's the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry (OMSI)
which rivals similar attractions in LA and SF for hands on fun.  The
Japanese Gardens, overlooking the city and the Willamette River are
peaceful and meditative.  Powell's Books, a whole city block of a
bookstore, has whatever reading material you might be interested in.
There's the Columbia Gorge for windsurfing, and the Saturday Market
under the bridge for bazaar shopping.

Of course, Portland may be the gravitational center for West Coast
brewing, what with the Yakima Valley and Seattle tugging northward and
California pulling south.  One could easily spend a week investigating
all of the pubs, brewpubs, and breweries.  Fortunately for those of us
with limited vacation time, you can take in a lot of this while standing
in the shade of a big tent watching the boats go by on the Willamette on
the third weekend of July each year.

To assist you in keeping the 46 different breweries straight, "The
Cascade Beer News" included a special suppliment in their July/August
issue with a glossary of terms, a list of the breweries and their
selected beer (many of which were brewed especially for the festival),
and a guide to beer styles.  These were available at the entrance.

The OBF works on a pay-per-taste arrangement.  You buy wooden nickels,
which are redeemable for half a mug (6 oz.) at any booth.  The beer is
served by volunteers, and kept cold in refrigerated trailers.  The
brewers hang out and are happy to talk to you about their products.
There are food booths at one end of the area, away from the main tent,
and a bandstand with live music playing late in the afternoon and into
the evening.  Admission is free and the event is quite family oriented.

Those volunteers are recruited out of the local homebrew club, the
Oregon Brew Crew.  Not only did they organize  all of the serving
duties, but they had a booth and made homebrew all day long, including
some all-grain beer.  Other booths included hops (Hop Union and Freshops
were there) and malt (Briess Malting and Great Western Malting).  I met
Jack Erickson, author of "Great Cooking With Beer" (an excellent book I
use often) who was pitching his latest offering "Brewery Adventures in
the Wild West."  It worked, too--I bought a copy and a quick read
indicates that it is up-to-date and full of information for the touring
beer enthusiast.

So what was good?  Well, I didn't have a bad beer.  But some of the
standouts were CooperSmith's (Fort Collins, CO) Green Chile Beer--crisp
and clean and refreshing with a spicy nose, and then as I finished
swallowing, a glowing warmth that made me want another sip.  The Bombay
Bomber IPA from the Steelhead in Eugene (there are two, unrelated,
brewpubs--the other is in Cave Junction, OR, and a third pub in
California serving a steelhead beer) was big and incredibly hoppy.  The
Cave Junction Steelhead had a Kolsch that was quite true to style.
Rogue Red (Newport, OR) was big and caramelly.  Baderbrau (Pavechivich
Brewing, Chicago) was a beautiful German Pils.  Bridgeport, one of
Portland's finest brewpubs, produced a special Pintail Pale Ale for the
festival that was more rounded than their hoppy Blue Heron.  Tiny
Lakefront from Milwaukie had a doppelbock that was a Salvatore knockoff.

I never did get to try Wynkoop's Irish Cream Stout--it ran out early on
both days, so I guess it must have been really good.  I spoke with the
brewmaster at Roslyn Brewing, a small resort town over the Cascades from
Seattle.  He was making "Just Beer" which turned out to be a very nice
dark lager with a dry finish.  We decided that it ought to be called
Roslyner.

Outside of the festival, I only got to try out a few pubs.  The Horse
Brass Pub, in the south east suburbs, has a great English Public House
atmosphere.  Except that you don't have to breathe cigarette smoke, this
really feels like it was plucked up from across the Atlantic.

Portland Brewing is a masterwork of space conservation, putting a
brewery, pub, and live entertainment into a very small square-footage
room.  This started a trend I noticed in other Oregon pubs:  they tend
to be well lit and include warm finished woods in their decor, without
the tendency to overdo brass and chrome.

Perhaps the ultimate was Teri Fahrendorf's new location (she was
previously the brewmaster at Triple Rock in Berkeley)--one of the
Steelheads--in Eugene, where the mahogany panelling and the tables with
high backed wing chairs made one think of an English country manor's
library.  The brewhouse is just as pretty, behind a huge picture window
and well lit.

I also paid a visit to the schizophrenic Bayfront Brewing/Rogue Brewery
in Newport, OR, where homebrewer of the year (1988) John Maier is making
more smoke.  John has been perfecting smoke beers since he worked for
Chinook (now Alaskan) Brewing and smoked grain in a fish smoker.  The
Rogue smoked ale has a delicate touch and beautiful color and balance.
Watch out for his Old Crustacian barleywine if you're planning on
attending the GABF this year!


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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 14:27:36 EDT 
From: card at apollo.hp.com
Subject: STAINLESS STEEL POT



  Hi: 

  There is a 20 quart stainless steel pot (light guage) on 
  sale at Lechmere's for $27.00. Usually only $35.00. 

  Would this this be an adequate size for an all-grain brew? 
  Or is all-grain boiling as subject to boilovers as extract 
  boiling?  
            

  /Mal Card 

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 12:48:32 PDT
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: King Kooker

I saw the review of the King Kooker in Zymurgy, and it said you can't use
natural gas with it, only propane.  Why?  Is it possible to rig it to use
natural gas?

kj

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 15:29:27 EDT
From: rich at progress.COM (Rich Lenihan)
Subject: Glassware answer and water questions


Hi,

   When I was looking for Pub glasses (as seen at my favorite tavern),
the only place I could find them was at a restaurant supply store.
The advantage to using them is three-fold:  1)  They've got a great
selection.  If they don't have it in stock they can order it.  2)  The
stuff they sell to restaurants and bars has to be high-quality (but not
fancy) and durable.  3) The prices should be lower than department or
specialty stores.  Also, don't believe you have to buy in bulk.  In these
recessionary times, any sale should be appreciated.  I picked up a dozen
glasses (I could have bought less, but the price was right) for $14 and
change.  Check your y*ll*w p*g*s for a supplier in your area.

   Now my water questions:  Like all good homebrewers, I called my
municipal water dept. for a water analysis report.  They very nicely
mailed me a report detailling levels for about 20 different elements
in the water supply.  However, the water guy there told me that at the
apartment complex where I live and brew the management adds a softener
to the water to protect the pipes.  So I called the apartment management
and asked about what they were putting in my water.  Once I told him why
I wanted to know this, he was pretty helpful, too.  They have some water
treatment company come in once a month and check the water and treat it,
if necessary.  They do a chemical analysis as well, although not as 
thorough as the town.  Anyway, the softener they add is called MP204.
The apartment manager wasn't sure what it was (some calcium compound) but
there's 3.0 mg/litre in my tap water.  I'm told that adding softener to
water supplies is fairly common (if the towns don't do it, many apartment
complexes do).  And *now* my questions:

   1.  What is MP204? 
   2.  Both the town and apartment water analysis report substances in
       terms of milligrams per litre but all of the brewing guides
       I've read talk about ppm (parts per million).  Is there any
       way to convert mg/l into ppm?

   Thanks in advance.  I've really learned a lot in the few months I've
been reading the Digest and I'd like to thank all of you and especially
Rob Gardner (and my mother and my wife and my eigth-grade science teacher)
for all you've done.  

   Rich 

Rich Lenihan                 UUCP: mit-eddie!progress!rich
Progress Software Corp.      Internet: rich at progress.com
5 Oak Park                   Real life:  20-I Brandywine Drive
Bedford, MA  01730                       Shrewsbury, MA 01545
USA                                      (508) 754-7502


   



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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 16:30:23 EDT
From: jdsgeoac at typhoon.saic.com (John Stanford GEOACOUSTIC)
Subject: kegging beer spheres (Hyrum Laney)


I am interested in kegging my homebrew and am thinking about using a
beer sphere (party ball).  I have seen something called a Batch Latch
which allows you to refill and pressurize the balls.  Has anyone used
this system?  How do the beer balls compare to soda kegs?  Thanks.

Hyrum Laney
jdsgeoac at typhoon.saic.com

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 13:45:30 PDT
From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Subject: "Dry Malting"?

Last winter, I discovered a beer that I think qualifies as my All Time
Favorite.  It's North Coast Brewing Company's 1990 Christmas Ale, from
Fort Bragg CA.  Like any good holiday beer, it's heavy and very malty,
but what sets it apart is its exceptional malt flavor.  It tastes
*exactly* like raw crystal malt!  You know that wonderful smell you get
when you first open a bag of crystal...that's what this beer tastes
like.

How did they do it?  The only thing I can think of is something I've
been calling "dry malting":  putting raw malt in the fermenter along
with the wort.  (Like "dry hopping", get it?)

Is that possible?  Is it feasible?  I think I'll try it at home, unless
someone can show me it's a Bad Idea...

have fun

gak

I guess there's some things          |      Seems like the more I think I know
I'm not meant to understand          |                 The more I find I don't
Ain't life a riot? Ain't love grand? | Every answer opens up so many questions
Richard Stueven                gak at Corp.Sun.COM                ...!attmail!gak

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 18:51 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: kegs

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 AT the risk of boring some of the professionals on HBD, I thought the 
 beginners might be interested in this article I posted on usenet.
 
 
 Article 341 (19 more) in alt.beer:
 From: berkley at kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
 Subject: Stuff you always wanted to hear.
 
 >On another note, what do you homebrewers like to store your stock in?  
 (Yeah, bottles, but what kind?  . 
 
 
 ARF says:   (That's me, Schmidling)
 
 Since reducing my consumption to one beer every other day and discovering a
 slick and cheap bottle filler, I have found 16 oz pop bottles convenient and 
 easy on the arithmetic.  I was unsplesantly surprised with the difficulty of 
 finding empties these days.  
 
 I also admit there ain't much class in pouring a beloved home-brew from a 
 bottle that says Coca Cola on it.  
 
 >. .or do some of you actually use kegs?) 
 
 ARF says:
 
 When I was drinking it faster that I could brew it, I developed a system 
 using "pony" kegs (1/4 barrel) and the old  Falstaff 2 gal "Tapper".
 
 Both systems require an external CO2 tank.  The pony is the easiest because 
 all the hardware for hook-up and tapping is readliy available from most 
 liquor stores.  The main problem is getting out the bung and replacing it 
 with a removable stopper.  I used a plexiglas plate and o-ring which screwed 
 into holes that I drilled and tapped into the keg.  I also mounted a pressure 
 gage on the plate to monitor pressure during fermentation.
 
 After primary fermentation, the whole batch is racked into the keg, sealed, 
 up-ended and moved to a location where it can remain till consumed.  Co2 must 
 be hooked up when the pressure of fermentation falls below what is needed to 
 push it through the tap.  The system works very well and has the main 
 advantage of only one container to clean up instead of dozens of bottles.  
 Its main disadvantage is the difficulty of putting it in a refrigerator, so 
 it is at its best for winter brewing in the basement.  
 
 The "Tapper" provides a useful compromise.  You either use two of them or one 
 and bottle the rest.  Furthermore it fits easily into the fridge.  However, 
 hooking up CO2 in the fridge presents problems of its own.  The original 
 tapper has a cartridge built into it but is too complicated to deal with and 
 I have no idea where one would get the odd sized cartridge.  The big problem 
 is that they are as scarce as hen's teeth these days and some drilling and 
 customizing must be done.  I still have a few if anyone is interested.
 
 I also found on my last visit to "Brewin-Beer", that there is an imported 
 contraption that does about what my keg system does.  However, it costs about 
 $80 and uses tiny soda syphon CO2 cartridges for pressure.  My guess is that 
 you would spend more on CO2 cartridges than on the raw materials for the 
 beer.
 
 arf
 
 
 

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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 91 17:21:17 BST
From: Desmond Mottram <des at swindon.ingr.ingr.com>
Subject: Bicarbonate and pH


> 1:  Does pH make all that big of a difference as Miller seems to think?
>      Would pH have enough of an effect that it could reduce my yield to
>       50% of what it should be?.

I doubt it unless it's miles out (under 4 or over 6.5). Temperature is far 
more critical. pH should be between 5.0 and 5.6 (so the books say). Lower 
pH favours alpha-amylase so more dextrins at the expense of fermentable 
sugars which means a sweeter beer. Higher pH favours beta-amylase so a 
drier beer but not necessarily a stronger one. Frankly this is theory, I 
cannot honestly put variations in flavour of the beers I've produced down 
to pH rather than anything else, but I have had a better mash extract when 
I've taken care over the pH, though never more than 10% better.

> 
> 2:  How would one eliminate 500-700 ppm of bicarbonate in my brew water?
>     (Yep, believe it or not, that's how much I've got!)

Boil it! This will precipitate bicarbonate as carbonate. Boil for 10-15 
mins and then allow another 10-15mins for it to settle, then rack. 
Bicarbonate is a damn nuicance as it buffers malt acids and prevents you 
getting the pH down. I always boil mine and always get both chalky scum
and sediment. The scum floats until you drain the water, when it gets drawn 
to the sides and sticks there. With care very little comes out. I have heard
that sulphuric acid will get rid of the bicarbonate but have never tried it
and am unsure why it should work. Perhaps someone who knows a bit more 
chemistry than I (not hard!) could explain.

>     I used a fair amount of gypsum in combination with a 15 minute boil,
>     but I was ucertain of the amount of gypsum necessary to remove the
>     bicarbonate., and was concered about other affects.  Is there a
>     simple formula or something?

I don't think gypsum can remove bicarbonate can it? I thought it only 
offset the effects of keeping pH high.

> 
> 3:  What is the best way to manipulate pH, assuming it does make a
>     diffrence?

more gypsum -> more acidic
less gypsum -> less acidic
If you can't raise the pH even with no gypsum, add precipitate of chalk 
(calcium carbonate) during the mash.

> 
> 4:  If pH is important, but I can't adjust it, can one compensate for
>     an improper pH by increasing the rest times?

I don't know about this one. improper pH slows down one or more of the 
enzymes working to produce fermentable sugar, so maybe a longer rest will 
give them more time to finish the job.

> ------------------------------

Desmond Mottram

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Date: 25 Jul 91 (23:03)
From: Mark Nickel <hplabs!kpc!uunet!canrem!mark.nickel>
Subject: lager question


As a relatively new homebrewer(working on my sixth batch), I was hoping
that the digest can give me some advice.

My latest effort has seen me attempt to make Papazian's honey lager.
After making, cooling, and then shaking the hell out of my wort, I
added a package of liquid lager yeast which I had started several days
earlier.  I then placed my wort in the fridge.  It has been 32 hours
and so far nothing.  Should I have waited for active fermentation before
placing the wort in the fridge?  Any suggestion on how to remedy this
situation would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Mark
mark.nickel%canrem at lsuc.on.ca
- --
Canada Remote Systems.  Toronto, Ontario
NorthAmeriNet Host


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #688, 07/26/91
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