HOMEBREW Digest #701 Wed 14 August 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Dunkelweizen, Weizenbock? ("William F. Pemberton")
  Wort Chilling (Steve Anthony)
  Re: Wort chilling (Chris Shenton)
  Re: Specific gravity and fermentables ("Dr. Jean")
  Liquid nitrogen in wort. (GERMANI)
  Guiness Taps (Darren Evans-Young)
  PLEASE READ THIS!! (Was: rampant infections) (Kevin L. McBride)
  HUNTER 42205PEM-AC (card)
  Quantity of beer in Germany (mcnally)
  Re: Liquid Nitro. (DAVID KLEIN)
  oatmeal (Russ Gelinas)
  re SG qq (Chip Hitchcock)
  Redhook ESB Recipe (Nik Subotic)
  Whitbread Lager Yeast (Mike Zulauf)
  lager malt/ale malt (Russ Gelinas)
  My Poor Hops! (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Where can I get a Hunter? ("Dale Wyttenbach")
  Making Mead (MIKE LIGAS)
  Chimay Yeast Experiences (MIKE LIGAS)
  ship beer from Australia to US (RUBICON READY)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #700 (August 13, 1991) (Steve Thornton)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue Aug 13 08:21:15 1991 From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.Virginia.EDU> Subject: Dunkelweizen, Weizenbock? As I understand it, the 'higher gravity' for weizenbock and dunkelweizen is about what you get from two cans. What is a regular batch for most styles is high gravity for wheat beers. This may not be %100 correct, I am just going by what I have been told by judges when entering my weizens. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 09:01:36 EDT From: Steve Anthony <steveo at Think.COM> Subject: Wort Chilling Seems to me that the price of extract keeps going up and up. To counter the trend, I'm thinking of going to all-grain. I do partial grain brewing now (3-5 lbs grain with 5 lbs extract, for example), so it won't be that great a step. I know I need to get a 8g brew pot, I have a nice mash tun (4g SS stock pot), a lautering system will be easy to devise (based on Papazian's Zappap (sp?) system). The one thing that has me stumped is the wort chiller. I had thought that getting a lenth of copper pipe and having a friendly local plumber coil it for me would be a start. I could then sweat solder (using non-lead solder, of course) some elbows and straight runs of pipe on to the coil; perhaps using some flexible hosing and hose clamps for areas where one might need to be able to bend the tube. I thought I might even put a valve and perhaps a thermometer on the output side. I had then thought that putting the coil of the chiller in my kitchen sink and surrounding it with crushed ice water would cool the boiling wort appropriately. But will it? Is there a way to figure out what the resultant temp of the wort would be? I'd hate to end up with wort that was at 120F and risk possible infection waiting for it to cool in the carboy prior to pitching. Any comments, answers, etc are welcome! Prost! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 10:53:05 EDT From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Wort chilling On Mon, 12 Aug 91 09:41 MST, DAVID KLEIN <PAKLEIN at ccit.arizona.edu> said: DAVID> What about using something even colder. Liquid nitrogen. at -177 C (if I DAVID> remember correctly) A couple of liters should cool the wort right down, DAVID> and talk about cold break... Even better -- if this idea works at all -- would be liquid oxygen: cool and aerate your wort simultaneously! (just don't smoke near it :-) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 09:40:24 EDT From: "Dr. Jean" <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: Specific gravity and fermentables Russ Gelinas asks if a high-temp mash full of dextrins or a low-temp mash full of fermentables will have a higher specific gravity. I'm not expert enough as a masher to give you an answer in terms of yields. However, I claim that original gravity and % fermentables are independent of each other. If you add enough corn sugar to a batch, you can get the O.G. up very high and still have a very light-bodied beer (like malt liquor, yuck) because all the sugar is fermentable. Conversely, if you add corn syrup or boiled oatmeal to the wort, you will again increase the gravity, but without adding much in terms of fermentables. After all, the yeast can't assimilate the dextrins in Karo or the glucans in oatmeal. Adding these adjuncts (which I don't recomm- end) will produce a syrupy heavy-bodied beer. Specific gravity is the mass of one cubic centimeter of wort, measured in grams. Any carbohydrate that dissolves in water will increase the initial gravity, whether or not it is fermentable. Body in beer is related to the viscosity of the beer, which depends on the presence and the length of non- fermentables (whether these are dextrins and glucans or peptides has been a matter of intense debate in earlier HBD's) So, Russ, whether you mash hot or cold, if your yield is the same, your OG will be the same whether it is due to dextrins or fermentables. Did I answer the right question? Cheers -- Jean - -----------------------Brewless? Clueless? Join us!-------------------------- - --------------------------Ithaca Brewers' Union------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1991 11:20 EST From: GERMANI%NSLVAX at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu Subject: Liquid nitrogen in wort. Greetings, David Klein suggests using liquid nitrogen or dry ice for chilling wort. I believe, as David suggests, that nothing will probably be living in either, however the thing that I would be concerned about is what chemicals (or other debris) is mixed in. One never knows what was in a nitrogen dewer in the past. I know lots of people that have broken off pieces of tubing into dewars, and I've often seen bugs and dirt in them also. Then there are always people (like me) who dip everything they can find in the room into liquid nitrogen just for fun. All of this is just something to consider before actually adding liquid nitrogen directly to wort. But of course, against my own advice, I have put it directly into things that I have consumed and I'm still alive. So I guess what I am saying is you might want to think about where something has been before putting it in your wort, and that microbes are not the only thing to worry about. G'Day, Joe Bitnet: GERMANI at YALEVMS Decnet: 44421::GERMANI %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% "Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire." --David Rains Wallace %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 10:32:32 CDT From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: Guiness Taps > >Does anyone know either how to assemble a Guiness-style tap (e.g., size >of spout; pressure of the gas; percentage of nitrogen and other gases; >etc.) or how to get the real thing? > > >John Kim > My 1991 Rapids catalog has Guiness Taps for about $35. It also shows a Guiness Flow Control Faucet for $70.50. I dont know what all you'd need, but they seem to have the parts. Darren *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Darren Evans-Young, Sys Prg BITNET: DARREN at UA1VM.BITNET | | The University of Alabama Internet: DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU | | Seebeck Computer Center Phone: (205)348-3988 / 5380 | | Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35487-0346 (205)348-3993 FAX | *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 9:25:32 EDT From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET (Kevin L. McBride) Subject: PLEASE READ THIS!! (Was: rampant infections) This is a re-post of an earlier submission. The response was underwhelming. Respond via e-mail if you don't want to clutter the digest, but PLEASE RESPOND! ****************************************************** * PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME! * ****************************************************** I have a severe problem that I hope somebody can help me with. I have had to toss my last two batches of beer due to really horrible, awful, slimy, foul smelling infections. Well, probably not that bad, but bad enough. I used to produce some really good beer, but lately I can't seem to keep the "undesirable elements" out of my fermenter. I am not aware that I have been doing anything different from my traditional procedures. Most of my brews are extract and I usually do a boil of only about 3 gallons, adding 2 gallons or so of chilled bottled spring water to the fermenter. This procedure has, historically, worked quite well for my extract brews. I occasionally do a full boil when a partial mash has been involved, but these are a pain since I don't have a wort chiller (yet.) I do the primary ferment in a 7 gallon carboy, and I do secondary in a 5 gallon carboy. I recently replaced all carboy stoppers and siphon hoses. I sanitize everything in a chlorine bleach solution and rinse with hot tap water. I am very careful with my siphoning procedures, probably to excess. i.e. I do things like wipe around the mouth of the carboy with a piece of gauze soaked in ethanol before putting in a stopper or a siphon hose. I'm getting absolutely anal with my process and nothing seems to help. Now the "Clean out the Closet Porter" (one of the few full boil batches that I do) that I brewed a while back is growing some ugly looking scum on the surface. I hadn't had a chance to bottle it, but I didn't worry since, of course, I felt that I had done everything properly and that I could leave it in secondary for another week or two. The temp. where I stored the fermenter has not gotten above 70 degrees F. and typically stays at about 65. Could I have a nasty infection in my kitchen that permeates everything? Could my bottled water supply (Poland Springs) have gone bad? Could my cat be spitting in the fermenter when I'm not looking? Will I have to hose down my kitchen with sanitizing solution? Would an ionizing air filter help? Help! I'm starting to worry! And I'm all out of homebrew. - -- Kevin L. McBride | "It's the quintessential "shell script from hell." President DoD | People sometimes gather their friends around and MSCG, Inc. #0348 | run it just for the entertainment value." uunet!wang!gozer!klm | - Larry Wall on "Configure" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 11:21:16 EDT From: card at apollo.hp.com Subject: HUNTER 42205PEM-AC Hi: Does anyone know where to get the HUNTER air-stat (42205) in the BOSTON area? The 2 references I got from Hunter are sold out and will not re-supply until next spring. I also tried Builder's Square in Nashua NH but they're sold out too. /Mal Card p.s. You can buy directly from the factory (mail order) at the full $50.00 price. But knowing they can be purchased for 19.95, I'm not really enthused about buying direct. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 09:26:16 -0700 From: mcnally at Pa.dec.com Subject: Quantity of beer in Germany I've seen some really disturbing allegations that the beers poured in some Munich beer gardens and at Oktoberfest are routinely shy of a liter. While there may be some rogue pourers who commit this crime, it should be noted that at Oktoberfest several inspectors patrol the tents with a notched stick used to randomly inspected just-poured glasses of beer. If a short glass is found, the customer gets it free and the perp is fined. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 09:44 MST From: DAVID KLEIN <PAKLEIN at ccit.arizona.edu> Subject: Re: Liquid Nitro. Whoops... After yesterdays submission about liquid nitrogen, I checked the good old CRC, and checked some numbers. First (for what it maters) the T of lN2 is -195 C (not -177 C) But, unfortunately, the specific heat it only about 0.2 kcal/(l*degree C). The heat of vaporization buys a 2 degree reduction in the water temp for 5 gallons water, and 1 liter of lN2. So, the calcuations show that one needs 15-20 l of lN2 (4 - 5 gallons). this is quite a bit of liquid to carry home. (or buy at 3-4 $ per gallon.) I also did the calc for dry ice, and found that about 25 Kg (>50 lbs) would do the trick. I don't remember how much that costs though... Well, it was for for a while... Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1991 14:07:43 EDT From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: oatmeal Steel cut oatmeal needs to be mashed. Because off the heat and pressure used to make rolled oats, howver, they (rolled) do not need to be mashed. I made a stout using 1 lb. steel cut oats mashed with 3.5 lbs of pale malt (and then added to 6 lbs of dry malt), and it turned out delicious. But it has no head. It's well carbonated, but the head disappears almost immediately. My guess is that it's because of something in the oatmeal (proteins? oils?). What could I use the next time to increase the head retention? Wheat flakes? Barley flakes? And, could someone please send me the address of the infamous Colonel John? It's time for one of those 7 gallon carboys. Thanks. Russ G. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 13:58:28 EDT From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: re SG qq Don't confuse SG and viscosity. SG is density; dissolving sugar in water doesn't increase the volume proportionately, so the density goes up. Viscosity is a much touchier subject, but I would guess that green wort with more unfermentables would have a higher viscosity---not sure whether it would be measurable, but many thickeners are naturally-occurring sugar polymers (cf cornstarch). I would assume that converting the same weight of starch to solubles would produce the same SG regardless of the mix of fermentables and unfermentables (dimers vs oligomers?). It's possible there's some effect from hydrolysis of the sugar bonds, but I'm not sure which effect c12h22o11 + h2o -> 2 c6h12o6 will have on density (e.g., do the smaller molecules hydrate more or less effectively?, does absorbing h2o reduce the volume by more or less than it's expanded by increasing the mass of the solute?); in either case it's likely to be very small. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 15:13:07 EDT From: subotic at erim.org (Nik Subotic) Subject: Redhook ESB Recipe Hello all, Just recently I had the pleasure of touring around Washington state. As part of the "vacation" my wife and I went through a number of brewpubs in the Seattle area (thanks to the people who emailed lists to me telling me where they were and describing them -- that information was invaluable!). One place that I missed, though, was the Red Hook millibrewery. One reason I call them a millibrewery is that they seem to have a larger capacity and distribution than a microbrewery would. I find their ESB beer excellent (we had this beer numerous times during our travels throughout the state). Has anyone taken the tour (apparently they discuss their recipe and methods extensively) and more specifically does anyone have a recipe they feel approximates this beer? I would be very interested in attempting to make this beer. Thanks for the information Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 13:32:38 -0600 From: Mike Zulauf <zulauf at orbit.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Whitbread Lager Yeast Howdy all! I was wondering how many out there have ever used Whitbread's lager yeast. I've used it a couple of times, and have been pretty well satisfied with it. However, I've never done a test comparing it with any other lager yeasts on the market, so I haven't been able to judge whether the final product leans towards malty, clean, complex, hoppy, etc. Note, while this is a dry yeast, it was favorably reviewed in Zymurgy's special yeast issue a couple years back. The main reason I have used it, as opposed to any of the fine liquid cultures, is that it seems to be a fairly potent strain (even at temperatures below 45 F), while some of the liquid strains I have used can really dddrrraaaaggg the fermentation along slowly. Anyhow, any feedback would certainly be appreciated, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1991 15:41:06 EDT From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: lager malt/ale malt I'm confused (what's new?). What's the difference between lager malt and ale malt? I always thought lager was 6-row, and ale was 2-row, and you could really use either for either. But I've seen references to pale ale malt. Is that just 2-row lager? Russ G. (waiting for my Rapids shipment!!!) --- Who will we pick on? How about that "Bitter is better" guy? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 12:02:29 PDT From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM> Subject: My Poor Hops! I've been watching with interest the "hops wars", and as each new pest was identified, checked to see if that could be what was eating mine. It never was. But yesterday, as I reached into the shrubbery to feel whether the strobiles were about ready to pick, something kicked me! Yep, there they were -- a bunch of big, green, well-fed grasshoppers. I have no idea why I never saw them before, other than that they're the same color as the leaves, and seem to keep mostly on the undersides of the larger leaves. I may have caused myself some unnecessary trouble by building little poultry-netting rings around the bases of the plants. I don't know if my chickens would have eaten the hops leaves, but they'd definitely eat the grasshoppers! It's too late to do much about this year's crop, but I know what I'll look for next year. = Martin A. Lodahl Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst = = malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 16:16:15 CDT From: "Dale Wyttenbach" <wytten at turtle.fw.umn.edu> Subject: Where can I get a Hunter? Someone mentioned an aftermarket temperature control for refigerator/freezers called a Hunter. I called several appliance/home-store type places in Mpls/St. Paul (including Builder's Square) and no one I talked to had a clue. Can the Hunter essentially make my chest freezer into a refrigerator suitable for lagering/storing kegs? If so, where can I get one? Thanks dale - -- Dale Wyttenbach | We all shine on, wytten at cs.umn.edu | like the moon, the stars and the sun. | --John Lennon Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1991 17:23:00 -0400 From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: Making Mead fozard at slipknot.pyramid.com (Bob Fozard) writes: >I've been making homebrew for about 6 months now, 6 batches and have >been happily consuming/sharing the results. This past weekend I >brewed a Barkshack Gingermead, based on Papazian's recipe, which is >now fermenting away in the closet at about 70-75 degrees F. Neither >Miller nor Papazian (to my recollection) discuss mead very much, and >my trip to the library produced very little more. At what temperature >should this mead be fermented? At what temperature should it be >aged after bottling? Do you have any helpful tips about this recipe, >or mead in general? Thanks much for any info. My first batch of mead was also Barkshack Gingermead and I loved it. I have made 12 batches of mead so far and my technique has changed quite drastically since that first batch a la Papazian. To start with, I only make still (non-carbonated) mead now because I find mead to be more of a wine-like beverage, high in alcohol and splendid when given time to age. I found that carbonated mead resembles Champale too much (anyone out there remember Champale?) but this is of course an "IMHO" so put your blow torches away! I ferment my mead at 18C (65F) for 6 days in primary, 3 weeks in secondary and 3 months in tertiary. Needless to say that my O.G.'s average 1.090-1.100. I use standard wine yeasts (Pasteur or Epernay) although I am interested in getting my hands on a culture of mead yeast. I age my bottled mead in corked wine bottles for 1 year (minimum) in a wine cellar which can be anywhere between 10-15C (50-60F) depending on the season. In terms of processing, I boil the honey/water mixture for 30 minutes and chill it by using a counter-flow wort chiller. After this I usually add various fruits to the cooled solution along with some yeast nutrients and tannin. When adding fruit(s) I always add 1/4 tsp. pottasium metabisulfite per gallon to sterilize the mixture and let it stand (covered) for 24 hours before pitching the yeast. This is how wine musts are sterilized since boiling fruit will set the pectins and cause chill haze problems, as well as ruin the delicate fruit flavours one wishes to enjoy later. I will post a recipe in HD soon to clear up some of the above generalizations since I am preparing this posting without having access to my recipe book. Mike PS- mead IS an aphrodisiac!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1991 17:29:00 -0400 From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: Chimay Yeast Experiences bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) writes: >...Has anybody tried culturing chimay ale yeast lately? >My recent attempts have turned out much more sour than >they were just a few months ago. It it the change in >seasons over in belgium, or perhaps related to the >temperature in my kitchen? Your problems are more likely due to microbial contamination from bacteria or wild yeast, either a result of a less-than-sterile culturing environment or from the source of yeast itself. One cannot be sure though without knowing more about how you culture yeast and what temperature your kitchen is. I had problems culturing Chimay yeast from the bottle until I got into agar plate culturing to isolate single colonies from a potential background of nasty beasties. I finally achieved success (2nd place in the Canadian Amateur Brewers Association 'All About Ales' contest) with the following method: - inoculate 50 mls of sterile (pressure cooked) unhopped wort with 2 mls of yeast slurry from a bottle of Chimay. Apply an airlock and wait for signs of activity (3-4 days). - streak out a loopful of this culture onto an agar plate (do a few plates) and let colonies develop (3-5 days). - pick a single colony and inoculate 10-50 mls of sterile wort. I did this for ten colonies in ten separate tubes. - after 3-5 days remove 1-2 mls of each fermented sample and taste. At this point I was shocked at how raunchy some of the fermented wort samples were with flavours ranging from burnt rubber to eggs to a beautiful Chimay-like fruitiness. Needless to say I saved the later culture and scaled it up to 500 mls to pitch into a batch of Trappist Ale. Now I am aware that this may draw some fire from those of you who know that Chimay is fermented using a blend of five different yeast strains. I have obviously only purified one strain using the above method. Unfortunately all of the colonies on my agar plates appeared morphologically the same but my flavour analysis indicated that different yeasts were present, and certainly more than five strains I assure you! Obviously there were some unwelcome intruders along with the proper strains and a more detailed analysis (genetic and/or molecular) would be required to come up with the proper combination of strains...but to no avail, the ale was fairly authentic and dream inducing. For those of you who responded directly to my posting a few HD's ago about purifying S. delbrueckii and who suggested I prepare a letter describing agar plate culturing, stay tuned. It's in the works but is taking a backseat to *less important* ;-) commitments. Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 15:05:09 -0700 From: robertn at folsm3.intel.com (RUBICON READY) Subject: ship beer from Australia to US Well, I'm at my wits end. I am trying to find out what needs to be done to ship a case of beer from Australia to Sacramento California. There is a gentleman who is so kind as to ship from Australia. However, when I try to find out legalities and impotation, all I get is the run-around from the US government customs office and the BATF. Has someone done this before? Is it as easy as just having it sent thru the mail to my house, or ????? Please relpy to robertn at folsm3.intel.com, and I will post the results here. Thanx in advance, RobertN robertn at folsm3.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 21:13:59 EST From: Steve Thornton <NETWRK at HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #700 (August 13, 1991) On Tue, 13 Aug 1991 01:00:08 mdt Darryl Richman said: >You can almost do this even with Bud (well, maybe not for 7 minutes, >but you can stretch it out quite a bit) by pouring down the middle. >The European theory is that the CO2 is harsh and unpleasant, and the >way to get rid of it is to have strong turbulence to degas the beer >as much as possible. The English are ahead in this score, since >they bleed it off before serving. > Just to amplify a bit, the English "Real Ale" people, CAMRA, who have pretty much finished off the enemy in the most successful consumer revolt in history, violently object to the presence of _any_ CO2 not produced by the beer itself, preferring natural cask pressure to what they call "blanket" pressure (forcing the good stuff out by the top pressure of an externally applied gas. That's what those quaint hand pumps are for, and why the beer is relatively flat to an American. A seven-minute wait sounds intolerable to me. Well, maybe if the result is Guiness..... Steve Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #701, 08/14/91 ************************************* -------
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