---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  cancel <2244 at tardis.Tymnet.COM> (Joe Smith)
  Undercarbonation in Corneleous Kegs. (Greg_Habel)
  Reply to Daniel S Robins regarding brewpubs in New (JRWEISS)
  eye-oh-way (Russ Gelinas)
  Airborne Homebrew (Richard Stueven)
  Re: Oatmeal Stout/hops/new home (Chris Shenton)
  Re: poland brewery (Chris Shenton)
  Re: Porter vs. Stout (Chris Shenton)
  re heresies (Chip Hitchcock)
  Address Correction (Bob Gammage)
  Bungs (John Freeman)
  nested buckets for sparging (John Freeman)
  Boiling Times, Wort-Chilling (hersh)
  Ester vs Cider (Andrew Lawson)
  Re: hops winterizing (bobc at wings.Eng - Bob Clark)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991) (Charles Anderson)
  split keg/tap (RUBICON READY)
  Re: TEXAS Beer (jeff gale 283-4010)
  explosions (Jack Schmidling)
  Conn-troversy ... (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Wintering Hops (Martin A. Lodahl)
  making a bottle washer (dave ballard)
  Low Temp Lager Behavior (joshua.grosse)
  Chill Haze in Extract Brews ("Randy Pals")
  Re: TEXAS Beer (Craig Artley)
  Worried parent blues (Peter Glen Berger)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991) (Jean Hunter)
  Utah Beers (Dieter Muller)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 	Mon, 12 Aug 1991 20:07:27 -0400
From: hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!bnr-vpa!jms%tardis (Joe Smith)
Subject: cancel <2244 at tardis.Tymnet.COM>

This message was cancelled from within rn.



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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 07:35:46 edt
From: Greg_Habel at DGC.MCEO.DG.COM
Subject: Undercarbonation in Corneleous Kegs.

Gentlemen, I have unsuccessfully tried to naturally carbonate my 
homebrew in 3 and 5 gallon Corneleous kegs.  I followed Papazian's 
recomendation of adding 1/3 to 1/2 cup of cornsugar to a 5 gallon 
batch.  Next I pressurized and bled the keg 3 or 4 times to release 
the O2 and replace with CO2.  Finally I left the keg at 5 psi at room 
temperature for 1 to 2 weeks.  The result: no carbonation.  I'd 
prefer to naturally carbonate but am forced to artificially carbonate 
to get any carbonation.  Am I doing something wrong here?  
I have never had a problem naturally carbonating in the bottle.
Should I try 3/4 cup cornsugar?  By bleeding off the O2 am I making 
it impossible for the yeast to get going again?  
On another note: Has anyone tried making a Mild with a hint of Ginger 
(1/2 oz grated)?




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Date:     Thu, 22 Aug 91 12:23 EDT
From: <JRWEISS%SNYESCVA.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:  Reply to Daniel S Robins regarding brewpubs in New


I have been told by a resident of North Adams, Mass. that there is
an excellent brewpub located there.  This would be about an hours
drive west from Framingham along the Mass. Turnpike.  I haven't
been able to make it there myself yet, but I hope to soon.

Happy hunting.

Jeff Weiss
SUNY Empire State College
Saratoga Springs, NY
(bitnet --> JRWEISS at SNYESCVA)

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Date:    Fri, 23 Aug 1991 10:22:58 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: eye-oh-way

  Ok, so I got my states mixed up.  I was thinking that Iowa was directly
below Minnesota, but it's actually more next-to MN and below Wisconsin.
But anyway, UPS has their own shipping zones, so they're the ones that
decide the shipping cost.  And, btw, Rapids has an office in Ohio (I know
where that is) that serves the right coast, but the ss pots come from the
Iowa office.
  As far as wholesale only, I seem to remember someone being refused a
catalog because they said it was *not* for a business.
  And what is it that makes Wyeast go so slow?  And is that slowness part of
why Wyeast has such a nice flavor profile?

Russ

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 07:26:58 PDT
From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Airborne Homebrew

I'm planning to take a half-case of my "Fool Me Twice" bitter across
the country in a few weeks, and I'm wondering what precautions I should
take to minimize the time I spend with the airport security folks.

Bill Thacker (HBD 591) and Alan Duester (HBD 607) told of their
experiences and recommendations, which basically amounted to RDW and be
sure to carry it on, not pack it in your luggage.  That's probably good
enough, but if anyone can point me to a regulation chapter and verse
that I can quote to the security supervisor if necessary, my paranoia
will be greatly allayed.

have fun

gak

TOOMUCHPRESSURETOOMUCHPRESSURETOOMUCHPRESSURETOOMUCHPRESSURETOOMUCHPRESSURETOO
Richard Stueven                gak at Corp.Sun.COM                ...!attmail!gak
ITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTSTOPITMUSTST
Disclaimer:  My boss told me that she doesn't even know I work here.

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 10:39:55 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Oatmeal Stout/hops/new home

On Thu, 22 Aug 91 12:31:59 -0400, Timothy Mavor <tmavor at pandora.cms.udel.edu> said:

Tim> This year I attempted to grow my own hops, but didn't get the rhizomes
Tim> in the ground til mid May, so no harvest is likely for me this year :(
Tim> However, how should I "winterize" them?

I did about the same last year and did get some hops. I didn't do anything
with them for the winter except hack them down to ground level; they are in
a mulched bed. They came back with a vengence this year and I've got hops
all over the place now; they're as hardy as weeds!

Tim> Any suggestions in the area from about Philadelphia down to Balt?

In Balto, there's the Baltimore Brewing Co (Albermarle St, off the Inner
Harbor) has excellent German style beers. They are opening up today after a
staff vacaction and are supposed to have a weizenbock (!) as their special
beer. They also have a very good pils (tons-o-hops) and a nice helles. I
expect the weizenbock to be as good as their previous, a weizen, and am
tempted to head up there tonight :->. They are also, by now I believe,
selling kegs and 2-liter take-home `growlers'.  I'm not big on the beers at
Sissons; the several times I tried them, they tasted raw, a bit harsh, and
unbalanced, IMHO, IMHO, IMHO, IMHO!

Nasdravi!

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 10:46:47 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: poland brewery

On Thu, 22 Aug 1991 13:23:25 EDT, R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) said:

Russ> Has anyone ever heard of any breweries in Poland?  The VP said that
Russ> no Polish beer is currently exported, so they're trying to be the
Russ> first, in a way.

There are two that I've had: Krakus, and something unpronouncable (to me)
and therefore I can't remember the name. My local beer-pusher has had cases
of Krakus for about $10 frequently -- dirt cheap for DC; not bad beer, either.


Russ> I've got a friend who thinks she can get me a digital pH meter, so
Russ> I'd know for sure then

Accuracy or precision? Digital displays instill confidence, don't they? :-)

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 09:02:50 MDT
From: ice at ntia.its.bldrdoc.gov (John Mastranglo)


	Hi
		I am interested in being included in the homebrew
	mailing list. My name is John Mastrangelo and my email
	address is:
		ice at ntia.its.bldr.nist.gov
						Thanks!  John


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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 11:03:33 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Porter vs. Stout

On Thu, 22 Aug 91 11:56 CDT, korz at ihlpl.att.com said:

Al> I plan to compare my beer with my benchmarks for sweet stout
Al> (Tooth's Sheaf Stout & Mackeson's Triple Stout) and porter (Anchor
Al> Porter).

You might try Yuengling Porter (Pottsville, PA), or a true British porter
over the California Porter style, which often as not is closer to a stout,
IMHO. 

- --
We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us.
	-- Marshall McLuhan

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 11:20:46 EDT
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re heresies

   A lot of what you call "unmalted adjuncts" aren't. Rice and corn are
used because they have less effect on the flavor, in proportion to the
fermentables they yield, than barley. (or at least a different
effect/balance; all-rice beer, aka saki, is an acquired taste.) Certainly
you don't want to use roast malt in place of roasted barley in a stout; the
flavors are observably different. I expect this would be true of other
additives as well, but you should feel free to try changing an additive and
report on the results. :-)

   sparging: I've done only extract-plus-additives brews, so I can't
give practical answers. But as a former chemist I would expect that making
up the mash to full volume (6 gallons plus net bulk of grains) and racking
would be wasteful, since:
 - you'll certainly leave some wort around the grain (and on top---racking
doesn't get everything)
 - you'll probably get less net efficiency than you'd get from rinsing the
grain. This may or may not worry you---I haven't seen any estimates of
whether a low-efficiency mash produces a different flavor.

   hot-break in extract---don't bet on it! If the extract was condensed
under reduced pressure, it will never have gotten near boiling (that's why
the reduced pressure). I have only had one batch of extract, a can of M&F
Old Ale, in which any trub was visible when I opened the can, although
several batches showed some break in the kettle even before boiling. Also,
most hopped extracts are notoriously under-hopped (see recent comments on
sweet beer) so a 1-hour boil with added hops is likely to be a good idea.

   wort chilling and infection: yes, your kitchen is unlikely to be as
sanitary as a brewery; for one thing, you don't cook in a brewery, and for
another it's unlikely that your kitchen is made entirely of tile, plaster,
and metal (wood may be charming but it's virtually impossible to sanitize).
This doesn't indicate some moral defect in homebrewing....

   adding trub: one man's deep flavor is another man's sewage. I tend to
like full-flavored beers but didn't like any of the deliberate defects
shown in a recent Dr. Beer session.

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 10:51:15 CDT
From: gammb at shifty.b8.ingr.com (Bob Gammage)
Subject: Address Correction

	Please change my distribution

	FROM:	gammb at shifty.b8.ingr.com
	TO:	brewer at b8.b8.ingr.com

	Thank you.  Your "automagical" mailer used my "reply" address
	rather than the one I specified within the body.
- -- 

    Iiiiiiii doe wanna werrrrrrrrr kyjes wan do bain gone de drum zawl day
       --------------------------------------------------------------
       |     ___                     |                              |
       |     |             Rock      |  Bob Gammage                 |
       |     L__ >______   Bottom    |  Tech Support (Workstations) |
       |   _/   \_|    |   Farmin'   |  (205) 730-6533     CR041    |
       |  [L| O |______|             |                              |
       |    \___/    (o)       haG   |  gammb at shifty.b8.ingr.com    |
       --------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 10:53:13 CDT
From: jlf at poplar.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: Bungs

>  The good news is that you can make your own for just about 
>  nothing.  Just take home a keg of stuff from your local 
>  liquor store and water the garden with it.  Remove the bung 
>  and replace it with a removable hatch (a few tapped holes 
>  and a piece of plexiglas) and you have a keg for the cost of 
>  the deposit. 

For an inexpensive resuable bung, I use an expandable rubber frost
plug, available in various sizes from your local auto parts store.
I bought a couple 1 3/4" plugs from NAPA for about $2.00 each.
Just remember to put them in dry and tighten them down.

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 11:11:08 CDT
From: jlf at poplar.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: nested buckets for sparging

After reading about other people using the nested bucket trick for
sparging, I thought I'd describe mine.

For my first sparge bucket, I drilled a bunch of 1/8" holes, but never
found that to be adequate for drainage.  When it thankfully broke, I
made another one using a propane torch, and an old butter knife, and a
bucket of course.  I heated the butter knife to about red hot and
pierced slots in the bottom of the bucket.  This was faster, cleaner,
and better than holes, because drilled holes always had those annoying
wisps of plastic that required deburring, where the slots had clean
edges.  And the slots don't plug up during sparging like the holes did.
I could pierce four or five slots before I had to reheat the butter knife.

As for nesting them, I didn't worry about finding buckets of exactly
the right size, I cut the lid of a bucket into a ring, and slipped this
ring onto the grain bucket.  This keeps the grain high above the wort
level.  Another ring on the sparge water bucket keeps that bucket above
the grain bed.  I then have a stack of three buckets, sparge water on
top, grain in the middle, and wort on the bottom.  I call it the Tower
of Power.  Actually, I now sparge directly into my boiling kettle.

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 14:06:07 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Boiling Times, Wort-Chilling


Conn Copas sez:

I've made batches with Alexanders (my favorite for Ales) with boils of 90
minutes typically, and occasionally up to or over 2 hours (for Kolsch styles)
with no bad effects.

My personal before and after experience is that Wort chilling is the single
best thing I have done for my brewing, substantially reducing occurences of
infection, and leading to better cleaner tasting beers. I will adamantly take a
stand against anyone that claims that there is no difference. 

As for criticism of the environment you are brewing in, that's ridiculous. Every 
house everywhere, no matter how clean has literally thousands of bacteria and 
yeasts. They are in the air, everywhere, all the time. While they may not take 
off in your beer, that doesn't mean that some amount hasn't made it in there.
Short of owning bacterial air filters and a clean room there will always be
bacteria in your beer. The way to defeat them is to give the yeast (who are
much more vigorous consumers of sugar) a leg up in the competition.


 - JaH


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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 14:37:07 EDT
From: Andrew Lawson <lawson at ra.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Ester vs Cider

I have a question for those with beer judge vocabularies.
I have heard much discussion of the various fruity esters
produced bu ales and that these can impart a fruit flavor
hint to the brew.  I have also read the lengthy and repeated
discussions of "cidery" flavors, usually blamed on excess
sugar.

I am consuming my current batch which has a slight apple
hint to it (which I do not find objectionable) and am trying
to tell what to call it.

So the question is:
     What is the difference between apple ester and cidery
     taste?

+-------------------------+--------------------------------------+
| Drew Lawson             |  If you're not part of the solution, |
| lawson at ra.nrl.navy.mil  |  you're part of the precipitate      |
+-------------------------+--------------------------------------+

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 13:19:24 PDT
From: Bob.Clark at Eng.Sun.COM (bobc at wings.Eng - Bob Clark)
Subject: Re: hops winterizing

 -> From: Timothy Mavor <tmavor at pandora.cms.udel.edu>
 -> This year I attempted to grow my own hops, but didn't get the rhizomes in
 -> the ground til mid May, so no harvest is likely for me this year :(
 -> However, how should I "winterize" them?  Should the bases be covered with some
 -> mulch-like material?  Would fertilizing be helpful?  Should I trim the vines
 -> back?  When??  The plants are growing at my parents in Mass., so there is 
 -> frost.  Is this a major concern?

I can't speak for frozen wastelands, but here in San Jose, CA, I just
cut the shoots off at ground level at the end of the season.  It becomes
clear that nothing more is going to happen, so you can tell by looking
when to do it.  I half-heartedly cover with mulch; I would guess that
you would be better served by seriously mulching.  I would also guess
that fertilizer would not be a good idea; the plant needs to go dormant
and not have another round of growth.

Then, in springtime, I watch carefully, waiting for the first sprouts
(if you don't watch, they won't sprout :-).

	Bob C.

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Date: 	Fri, 23 Aug 1991 11:15:58 -0500
From: caa at com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991)

> In HDB #707 Russ Gelinas Wrote:
> Subject: ss pots
> 
>   Just to hold off requests for info, Rapids phone number is (800) 553-7906.
> Ask for a catalog.  They'll ask if it's for a business. Say yes; they are
> wholesale only.
> 
> Russ
When I bought my pot from Rapids I said I wasn't a business, and they
sold it to me any way, they might ask for a tax id number if your a
business, which of course you won't have as an individual.  
> 
>                                                I believe Rapids is located
> in Iowa, which would lead to lower shipping costs to most of the US than
> from Minnesota.
> 
> Russ
Rapids is indeed in Iowa, Cedar Rapids Iowa to be a little more specific, 
and if look at a map Iowa is right under Minnesota, and I would bet that
there is a much larger UPS shipping depot in the Twin Cities than in
Cedar Rapids....shipping might even be cheaper.

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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 14:05:34 -0700
From: robertn at folsm3.intel.com (RUBICON READY)
Subject: split keg/tap


Hi all,

Is it a big deal to set up both a homebrew cornelious keg and
a regular brewery keg together?

Why I ask, is my roommate wants to convert a old refridgerator to a
tapper setup. He likes stuff like Henry's and Mikelobe. I'd like to 
try my hombrew in kegs. So, would it be difficult to set it up to do
both?

More than likely, there'd be two taps. In that case, I imagine I'd need
all the stuff for a homebrew keg, but share CO2 from a manifold. But,
what if we just wanted one tap? Is this scenario worth pursuing?

Thanx,

RobertN
robertn at folsm3.intel.com


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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 16:25:53 CDT
From: jeff gale 283-4010 <gale at sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: TEXAS Beer

Howdy from Houston -

Unfortunately in The Lone Star state brewpubs are currently illegal.  However,
there are a few good pubs to grab a pint at.  Some that come to mind are The
Gingerman, The Ale House, Crown & Serpant, and Mucky Duck's.  All of these can
be found in or near the Village, an area near the Rice University campus.

DeFalco's is THE place for homebrew supplies.  It too is located in the
Village.  Scott Birdwell, the owner of DeFalco's, and John are quite
knowledgable and helpful when it comes to homebrew.  Scott is hoping to get
The Magnolia Brewery in Houston off the ground this fall/winter.

Pecan Street Lager is a contract beer which is brewed by August Schell in New
Ulm, MN for a company in Austin.  Quite a respectable beer IMHO.  There is
also a microbrewery in Dallas, but I haven't tried any of their beers.  Hope
this helps.

Jeff

P.S.
These are my own opinions, damnit!


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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 09:02 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: explosions

 
 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 RE: kla!kirkish at Sun.COM (Steve Kirkish)
 Subject: Explosives and Ginger Ale
 
 >Yikes!  Hope the thumb's better now.  Well, I just had a 
 similar (but not so dramatic) experience with a batch of 
 Ginger Ale (more on *that* in a moment).
 
 > 1.  How long should I expect the Ginger Ale to sit in the 
 bottle until it tastes like Ginger ale (a time estimate 
 rather than "until it's done" would be helpful :-)
 
 >3.  What can I do to prevent future batches from blowing 
 up? 
 
 JS says:
 
 I can't speak for your recipe but the one I have developed 
 and demonstrate in (soon to be released)  "BREW IT AT HOME", 
 takes 48 hrs and will never blow up.
 
 Here's the relevant part of the script.....
 
                          BREW IT AT HOME
 
           ACT 2        GINGER ALE
 
 Scene 1   GINGER ALE  GRAPHIC
 
 OUR NEXT PROJECT IS TO MAKE GINGER ALE.  THE PROCESS IS 
 EXACTLY THE SAME AS ROOT BEER EXCEPT THAT WE ARE GOING TO 
 MAKE OUR OWN GINGER ROOT EXTRACT.
 
 
 SCENE 2   GINGER ROOT
 
 PICK OUT A NICE FRESH LOOKING PIECE OF GINGER ROOT AT THE 
 SUPER MARKET.  IF YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD STORE DOESN'T CARRY IT, 
 TRY AN ORIENTAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
 
 OUR ONE GALLON RECIPE CALLS FOR TWO OUNCES.  THAT IS A PIECE 
 ABOUT THE SIZE OF AN EGG.  THE QUANTITY IS NOT CRITICAL AND 
 YOU WILL NO DOUBT WANT TO EXPERIMENT WITH THE INGREDIENTS AS 
 YOU GAIN MORE EXPERIENCE.
 
 SLICE THE TWO OUNCE PIECE INTO THIN SECTIONS AND ADD THEM 
 TO, TWO CUPS OF BOILING WATER.  SIMMER THIS ON VERY LOW HEAT 
 FOR 20 MINUTES.
 
 
 SCENE 3   BLENDER
 
 WE THEN POUR THIS INTO A BLENDER AND BLEND ON HIGH FOR ABOUT 
 ONE MINUTE.
 
 
 SCENE 4   STRAIN INTO BOILING WATER
 
 AT THIS POINT, WE SHOULD HAVE OUR GALLON OF WATER WITH TWO 
 CUPS OF SUGAR THAT WAS BOILED FOR ONE MINUTE.  IN THIS CASE, 
 WE CAN ADD OUR EXTRACT WHILE THE WATER IS STILL HOT.  POUR 
 THE BLENDED GINGER EXTRACT THROUGH A STRAINER INTO THE SUGAR 
 WATER.  
 
 WITH A SOUP LADLE, POUR A FEW CUPS OF THE HOT BREW THROUGH 
 THE PULP TO EXTRACT A BIT MORE OF THE GINGER FLAVOR.  THEN 
 LET IT COOL TO ROOM TEMPERATURE.
 
 
 SCENE 5   VANILLA
 
 WHEN COOL, ADD ONE TABLESPOON OF VANILLA EXTRACT AND AT THIS 
 POINT YOU CAN TASTE YOUR GINGER ALE BUT I RECOMMEND THAT YOU 
 DO NOT ALTER THE RECIPE ON THE FIRST BATCH.  BUT THE AMOUNT 
 OF GINGER, SUGAR AND VANILLA ARE VARIABLES THAT CAN BE 
 ADJUSTED TO SUIT YOU OWN TASTE.
 
 
 SCENE 6   ADD YEAST
 
 AT THIS POINT, ADD THE YEAST AND AGAIN 1/8 TEASPOON MAXIMUM.  
 STIR AND LET SIT FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES.  THEN BOTTLE AND AGE 
 IT JUST LIKE THE ROOT BEER.
 
 
 
 And from ACT 1 on bottling.....
 
 SCENE 9   BOTTLES
 
 THE SIMPLEST AND LEAST EXPENSIVE BOTTLING PROCEDURE IS TO 
 USE EMPTY, ONE LITRE PLASTIC SOFT DRINK BOTTLES.  THE ONES 
 WITH PLASTIC, SCREW CAPS ARE THE MOST RELIABLE.  THERE ARE 
 NUMEROUS OTHER POSSIBILITIES AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT SOME OF 
 THEM WHEN WE GET TO BEER MAKING.
 
 THE NUMBER ONE RULE IN BOTTLING IS  CLEANLINESS.  THE 
 BOTTLES AND ALL EQUIPMENT THAT COMES IN CONTACT WITH OUR 
 BREW MUST BE STERILIZED TO PREVENT ANYTHING OTHER THAN, THE 
 YEAST WE ADD, FROM TAKING OVER.
 
 
                          ACT 1, P3
 
 SCENE 10  BLEACH AND WATER, STERILIZING AND RINSING BOTTLES
 
 THE BEST WAY TO STERILIZE PLASTIC BOTTLES IS TO RINSE THEM 
 IN A SOLUTION OF HOUSEHOLD BLEACH AND WATER.  A TABLESPOON 
 OF BLEACH IN A QUART OF WATER IS POURED INTO AN EMPTY 
 BOTTLE.  THE SOLUTION IS THEN POURED FROM THIS BOTTLE INTO 
 THE NEXT AND THEN RINCED THOROUGHLY WITH CLEAN WATER TO 
 REMOVE ALL TRACES OF THE BLEACH.
 
 THE CAPS CAN BE STERILIZED IN THE SAME SOLUTION.  BE SURE TO 
 RINSE THEM THOUROGHLY.
 
 
 SCENE 11  FILLING
 
 WHEN THE BOTTLES ARE READY, FILL THEM WITHIN ONE INCH OF THE 
 TOP AND SCREW THE CAPS ON TIGHTLY.  
 
 
 SCENE 12  CARBONATING, SQUEEZE BOTTLE
 
 SET THE BOTTLES ASIDE TO CARBONATE.  THE NICE THING ABOUT 
 USING PLASTIC BOTTLES IS THAT YOU CAN CHECK THE CARBONATION 
 SIMPLY BY SQUEEZING THEM.
 
 AT NORMAL ROOM TEMPERATURE, THEY WILL BE HARD AND FIRM IN 
 ABOUT 48 HOURS.  YOU CAN THEN REFRIGERATE THEM TO FINISH THE 
 AGING PROCESS.  THE LONGER THEY AGE, IN THE REFRIGERATOR, 
 THE BETTER THE ROOT BEER TASTES BUT YOU CAN DRINK AT 
 ANYTIME.
 
 A DAY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER BEFORE REFRIGERATING, MAKES A 
 SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN THE AMOUNT OF CARBONATION.  UNLIKE 
 ORDINARY BEVERAGES THAT GO FLAT AFTER OPENING, IF YOU RE-CAP 
 A HOMEBREW AND LEAVE IT OUT OF THE FRIDGE OVERNIGHT, IT WILL 
 RE-CARBONATE.
 
 IF THE BOTTLES DO NOT GET FIRM AND HARD, SOMETHING WENT 
 WRONG AND THE YEAST DIED OR WAS TOO OLD.  THROW IT OUT AND 
 TRY AGAIN WITH NEW YEAST.
 
 ...................
 
 I left a bottle out for 30 days just see what happens and 
 although the bottle survived, the amount of carbonation was 
 beyond usefulness.  I had to lower the temp it to almost 
 freezing to even get it open and I still lost about half to 
 gushing.
 
 The key to control of carbonation is to refrigerate when 
 adequate and three days is more than adequate for both my 
 rootbeer and gingerale process.  Making one gallon batches 
 minimizes the strain on refer space.
 
 I actually bottle in pop bottles but always include one 
 plastic bottle to monitor carbonation.  This of course, also 
 applies to beer but it usually takes much longer to 
 carbonate and the plastic bottle is fun to squeeze when you 
 get bored.
 
 Jack Schmidling Productions
 


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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 12:23:50 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Conn-troversy ...

In HOMEBREW Digest #708, Conn Copas offered some intriguing
opinions, including:

>... We have all read about the dire consequences of washing sediment
>into the boiler, but maybe this is an illusory problem. What about simply
>leaving the wort to settle, then racking into the boiler ?

Ah, but why?  The sediment can usually be eliminated by cycling the
cloudy wort back through the filter bed.  In all but one batch I've
done this until the wort runs clear.  That one batch was a lambic,
made with large quantities of unmalted wheat, and both mash and wort
were so turbid that I gave up hope of its ever clarifying.  I would
think that husk material in the boil would be asking for astringency
in the finished beer.

>More heretically still, we've seen recent recommendations to add boiler
>trub to the fermenter in order to ensure depth of flavour. Food for
>thought, huh ?

Yes, someone here (Bill Crick?) said several years ago that any
"flaw", if it's just obove the taste threshold and too mild to be
obnoxious, adds interest.  I remembered that when my beer became
more bland as I gained control of the process, and dialed back on my
efforts to remove trub before pitching.  I now remove most of it,
but leave just a trace.  It works.

>But consider this. You are making a stout and the recipe calls for flaked
>barley. Why not simply add more malt ? Does the flaked barley possess
>anything that the malt does not (like different proteins maybe) ?

Like beta glucans, which will dramatically change viscosity and
mouthfeel, making stout really stout.  Add more malt instead and
you'll end up with something more like a Trappist "dubbel":  dark,
malty, raisiny, with a high alcohol content, and without the thick
and heavy mouthfeel of a stout.

>Yours in alchemy 

Always!  Brewing processes are as close to magic as most of us will
ever get!  Thanks for the interesting thoughts, Conn.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 91 14:42:10 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Wintering Hops

In HOMEBREW Digest #708, Timothy Mavor asked:

>This year I attempted to grow my own hops, but didn't get the rhizomes in
>the ground til mid May, so no harvest is likely for me this year :(

Mine wasn't worth beans either.  But we had a cool, dry summer.

>However, how should I "winterize" them?  Should the bases be covered
>with some mulch-like material?  Would fertilizing be helpful?  Should
>I trim the vines back?  When??  ... there is frost.  Is this a major 
>concern?

I've been told by the hop mavens in my club that frost gives a very
good clue to when it's time to cut the vines back.  When the vines
appear to be dying, cut them right back to the ground.  Cover the
stumps (and, in fact, the entire hill) with manure (I use a mixture
of horse & chicken, with straw mixed in).  Some people add a pinch
of a boron salt, but that depends largely on the amount of boron
occurring naturally in your soil and should in any case be used very
sparingly.  The manure serves both as fertilizer and mulch.

On the subject of hops, my daughter brought home yesterday some
enormous hop cones she got from some wild vines nearby.  They smell
disgusting, but apparently I could get tons of the stuff for the
effort of picking it.  My hops, on the contrary, smell divine, but
there isn't enough for even one batch.  Surely there is a moral
here, but it eludes me.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: 24 Aug 1991  11:26 EDT
From: pyuxe!dab at bellcore.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: making a bottle washer


Hey now-  Would anyone be willing to give me a few ideas/tips on how
to make a bottle/carboy washer?  Any help would be greatly appreciated...


thanks!
 -dab

====================================================================
dave ballard
dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com



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Date: Saturday, 24 August 1991 9:51am ET
From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com
Subject: Low Temp Lager Behavior


I posted a letter in HBD 705, and another in rec.crafts.brewing, with
questions I had about the behavior of the wort in my fermenter.  This
was my first attempt at low temperature brewing and I had some concerns.
I recieved several replies; but I thought that Chad Epifanio's reply to
my post in r.c.b. was the most complete in answering the questions I'd
raised.  He has given me permission to publish his letter, as I wanted
to share his comments with others who are either doing or are thinking
about cold fermentation.  Lines that begin with ">>" were from my
article in r.c.b, and lines that begin with ">" were in his e-mail to
me.

>>I used Wyeast Pilsner, and according to the package directions and the
>>date stamp, activating the culture in the package the day before I brewed.
>>I pitched it directly from the package into the wort when my fermenter
>>was still above 80 degrees, then began refridgeration.  My fridge is at
>>42 degrees.
>
>Well, you may have activated it a bit too close to pitching.  The package
>should have a chance to get EXTREMELY swollen.  Don't worry, there should
>be enough to finish the job, and the low temps will inhibit contamination.
>
>>There was never enough activity to justify a blow-by tube in the fermenter.
>>There was some CO2 production, but not much, and after 5 days I replaced
>>the blow-by with a standard fermentation lock.
>>This fermentation looks strange.  The kreusen is fairly solid, not at all
>>foamy, and is about 1/3 inch thick.  There are clouds of what must be yeast
>>in the wort.  A large cumulous cloud just underneath the kreusen, and several
>>cirrus clouds a few inches above the trub.  CO2 production is minimal.
>
>When I ferment at cold temps, there is never enough activity to warrent a blow-
>off tube, either.  The fermentation will be slower at that cold a temp, and
>the kreusen will be thinner and harder..
>
>>The wort's original gravity was 1.025.  After 6 days, the gravity is at
>>1.021.  The wort tastes flat and sweet.  Both gravities were measured
>>at 60 degrees.
>
>Patience, my brewing friend.  One reason for the cold temp is so that
>fermentation is slower, resulting in a smoother finished product.  Good lagers
>are not made in a week, nor in a month.  Yeast is a living organism, and
>if you rush it, it will likely get pissed at you.
>
>>Is this normal behavior for a refridgerated fermentation?  Did I underpitch
>>by not creating a 1 or 2 quart starter from the Wyeast package?  The package
>>didn't suggest a starter would be necessary, and I assumed that their built-in
>>starting system would be enough.  Is my wierd kreusen due to Irish Moss?
>>Are these yeast clouds normal?  Is there anything I should do, other than
>>rack on the 14th day as I was planning to do?
>
>Chill, Josh.  I'm not going to repeat the homebrewers oath that you know so
>well.  There is a great deal of magic and mysticism involved in homebrewing,
>no matter what any "expert" will tell you.  Rack the beer not more than three or
>four times before bottling to prevent excess oxidation.  Once the yeast has
>sedimented, if that is indeed a verb, rack and lager for awhile.  True German
>lagers are aged for at least three months in the secondary.  Its going to be
>awhile before you drink this one.
>
>
>Chad Epifanio                       |  "There are no bad brews.
>Scripps Institution of Oceanography |   However, some are better
>Marine Physics Laboratory           |   than others."
>chad at mpl.ucsd.edu                   |
>================================================================
>"All words and ideas are my own, etc., etc..."

Thanks, Chad.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                                jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                               313-358-4440
Southfield, Michigan


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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 91 09:16:06 CDT
From: "Randy Pals" <pals at inland.com>
Subject: Chill Haze in Extract Brews

In HBD #704, Graham Leith writes:

>I have recently moved up from kit brewing to brewing with extracts, adjunct
>grains, and hops.  While I have been very pleased with the taste of these
>beers, they have a chill haze that I never encountered with the kits.  I
>suspect that it is due to the proteins dissolved in the wort from the adjunct
>grains (crystal malt and toasted barley malt) that I've been using.  I put the
>adjuncts into the cold water and remove them when it comes to a boil, then add
>the extract.

>Does anybody have any suggestions on the use of finings, or better still, how
>to avoid a chill haze without the use of finings?  Is it alright to add finings
>to a secondary or will this precipitate out too much of the yeast needed for
>bottle carbonation?   Should I close my eyes, not worry, and just enjoy the
>taste of the beer?

I also brew using the same method you do, and have encountered chill haze
in every single batch.  The only fining agent I have used is Irish moss;
it doesn't seem to have much effect on *chill* haze - but I don't think
it is supposed to.  After some e-mail discussions with HBD and brewing
veteran Martin Lodahl, I began altering my methods somewhat.

Normally, I would brew using the single-stage blowoff method.  Martin
suggested that I get another carboy, and after fermentation was complete,
rack the beer into it for a week of clarification before bottling.  This
improved the clarity of the beer when not yet chilled, and it cut down some
on chill haze but did not eliminate it.

The other thing I began doing was trub separation.  With some batches,
I've poured the reasonably cooled (80 F) concentrated wort onto sanitized
ice, let it sit overnight, racked off the trub, and then pitched.  With
others, I let the brewpot holding the concentrated wort sit in ice
water until it got down below 60 F (about 40-45 minutes), put it into
the carboy with cool water (again below 60 F), let it sit for about an
hour, racked off the trub, and then pitched.  Both methods work
OK for me, but chill haze again does not seem to be much affected (flavor
definitely is - the trub separated beer tastes "cleaner").

Just yesterday I had an interesting experience vis-a-vis chill haze.  I
opened a bottle of light pale ale that had been in my refridgerator for
at least 6 weeks, perhaps 8 weeks.  All the previous bottles of this
ale had chill haze after only a week or two of refridgeration, but this
bottle was *crystal clear*.  I guess the stuff that precipitates out at
cold temperatures eventually settles to the bottom of the bottle.

When all is said and done, I think your last sentence sums up my additude
about chill haze - ignore it and enjoy your brew.


Randy Pals
pals at inland.com


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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 91 17:23:11 MDT
From: cartley at slotnick.Mines.Colorado.EDU (Craig Artley)
Subject: Re: TEXAS Beer

Eric Simmon asked about Houston bars, brewpubs, etc.
As a two-time summer (damn it's humid there) resident of Houston,
I can recommend the Richmond Arms on Richmond Ave, on the
west side.  I can't remember the precise cross street, but I think it
is a bit west of Chimney Rock.  This is a great British style pub with
a good selection of ales (et al.) on tap.

The same folks operate the Ale House, which I believe is also on 

Richmond, but much closer to downtown.  I've never been there,
but heard many good things about it.

Other good bars include Dirty's (sports bar) and Sherlock's.
Sherlock's is a pub wannabe.  They put a lot of work into the
Holmes-style atmosphere.  Many beers available, but I'm more
comfortable at the Richmond Arms.

And just about any place with Shiner Bock on tap.  Shiner is made
in Shiner, Texas, of course.  It is my all-time favorite supermarket
beer.  Good stuff.  Probably the main thing I miss about Texas.
I was able to buy some here two years ago, but haven't seen it since.
I always bring some back when visiting the in-laws.

I don't think there are any brewpubs in the entire State of Texas,
nor any microbreweries in Houston, though they seem to be 

popping up all over these days.

Craig Artley    cartley at dix.mines.colorado.edu    (303) 273-3557
Dept. of Geophysics, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, CO  80401

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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1991 23:19:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Worried parent blues

Okay, I have two maybe problems, and I'd like to know if they really
ARE problems.

This is my first batch of beer.  I'm following the
probably-inferior-but-simple hopped malt-extract and corn sugar path.
I used less corn sugar than was recommended (3 1/4 cups instead of 4).

1) The wort never had a hot-break.  My girlfriend and I theorize that
this was because we are boiling around 2 gallons of wort in a huge (5
gallon) vessel.  Are we right, or was this indicative of a problem
with our procedure?

2) NONE of the various references we have seen tell us exactly how
much fermentation should be going on.  Lots of phrases like
"fermenting madly," but no indication of what this means.  We pitched
the yeast about 28 hours ago, in a 7-gallon plastic bucket (5 gallons
of wort), and are getting "bubbles" in our fermentation lock about
every 13 seconds, with variations from 8 to 16 seconds.  There seems
to be about half an inch of kreusen.  Are we OK, and just fretting
over nothing, or is this a substandard fermentation?

Thanks in advance,
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Berger		       ||  ARPA:     peterb at cs.cmu.edu
Professional Student	       ||            Pete.Berger at andrew.cmu.edu
Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law ||  BITNET:   R746PB1P at CMCCVB
Attend this school, not CMU    ||  UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Goldilocks is about property rights.  Little Red Riding Hood is a tale
 of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism."  -Bernard J. Hibbits
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Date:         Sun, 25 Aug 91 11:17:47 EDT
From: Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #707 (August 22, 1991)

Wow, HBD 707 was the best HBD in weeks!  Great info, low chat coeficient.
Thanks, fellow brewers!  Cheers - Jean

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Date: Sun, 25 Aug 91 17:53:49 MDT
From: dworkin at Solbourne.COM (Dieter Muller)
Subject: Utah Beers

Just to add a bit to the noise, one of my favourite stouts is brewed
in Utah.  `Irish Stout', apparently by the Wasatch Brewing Company, in
Wasatch, Utah, is really nice stuff.

Note, however, that I prefer sweeter brews.  My previous bottled
favourite was Watney's Cream Stout.  This preference seems to fly in
the face of the general opinion of the HBD group, so please take the
recommendation with a grain of salt (which seems to help cut the
bitterness of the Watney's, interestingly enough).

	Dworkin
Please don't get us wrong, man,
this is just a song, man, no matter what we say -- FC
dworkin at solbourne.com                      Flamer's Hotline: (303) 678-4624

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #709, 08/26/91
*************************************
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