HOMEBREW Digest #725 Tue 17 September 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  comparing festbier yeasts, NYC competition (Stephen Russell)
  Lab Glass & Culturing Supplies (Mike Sharp)
  wyeast (Jonathan A. Rodin)
  raspy rasberries (617)253-0885" <CASEY at DAQ1.PFC.MIT.EDU>
  re: Extract yields... (Darryl Richman)
  Re: Two Requests (Chris Shenton)
  Yeast and other issues (Dave Rose)
  Lawnmower brew (Dan Brown)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #723 (September 13, 1991) (HERREN)
  Plastic-y taste (Tom Nolan)
  RE>Homebrew Digest #723 (Se (Rad Equipment)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #724 (September 16, 1991) (HERREN)
  Using a hydrometer (Larry McCaig)
  Wyeast (Fritz Keinert)
  No cloves in Lawnmower Beer ("Roger Deschner")
  Brewing supplies in Cleveland (John Stepp)
  RE: Easy question, and Thanks! (Daniel L. Krus)
  Lagering (Steven M Cohn)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #724 (September 16, 1991) (Thinking Machine)
  RE: Raspberry Stout (Devon Heron)
  Priming (dbreiden)
  Plastic tastes (Conn Copas)
  Cleveland homebrew supplies (Dennis Benjamin)
  Ironmaster Bitter ? (Ken Lloyd)
  Air Stat & Fridge holes (hersh)
  Wheat (Carl West)
  How efficient?? (C.R. Saikley)
  re:raspberry stout ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  pub database (Marc Light)
  Reply to Jerry Gaiser in HBD 724 (Greg_Habel)
  Priming with DME (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  The term "lawnmower beer" (Lynn Gold)
  Re: All Grain Extract Efficiency (larryba)
  Nitrosamines & also yeast (Jeff Frane)
  One more thing... (Bryan Gros)
  Fame (No Fortune) (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Extract Efficiency Musings (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Bottle Culturing (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #722 (September 12, 1991) (Scott Knowles                       )
  Hydrometer Correction Table (IO10676)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Sep 91 17:33:57 EDT From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell) Subject: comparing festbier yeasts, NYC competition WHICH FESTBIER YEAST TO USE.... 'Tis the season for Festbiers, lager fans! Get those palates warmed up and ready to go! I know you're supposed to brew them up in March, store them in your nearby cave over the summer, and drink them now, but I have always been a poor planner. :-) But what yeast do you recommend for this style? Wyeast has two yeast strains appropriate for the styles Vienna/Maerzen/Oktober- fest: #2308 Munich Lager and #2206 Bavarian Lager. I have used both with success but have *not* been systematic in my experimentation (too many #!%?$ at & variables varied!!) In the Zymurgy Yeast Special Issue, Vol. 12 No. 4 (1989), Byron Burch says of these strains (p. 57): 2308: sensitive to fermentation conditions, prone to diacetyl flavor, complex, accents maltiness but brings out the hops more than 2206 2206: "less fussy", malty and complex, good for bocks but can be generally substituted for 2308 2206 was a relatively new strain at that time, and so Mr. Burch was unable to go into as much detail about it. By the way, his article is *extremely* good for comparing yeasts in general; I recommend it highly. My experience suggests that 2308 is the more attenuative yeast, perhaps even too much so for style -- BUT a different recipe would have produced vastly different results, so please take that remark with a grain (or pound) of salt. What I want to know is this: how have your results compared from using these two strains?? Attenuation, flocculation, flavor balance, temperature sensi- tivity...whatever you've got would be most appreciated. AND A CONTEST IN NEW YORK CITY.... I have information on the Nov. 2nd AHA- and HWBTA-sanctioned competition being put on by the New York City Homebrewers Guild if anyone is interested. It's an open competition -- all beer styles will be accepted (not meads). E-mail to me directly to avoid cluttering up the net; I'll be prompt in replying. Prosit, STEVE srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (internet) srussell at crnlmsc3 (bitnet) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 6:27:53 EDT From: Mike Sharp <msharp at cs.ulowell.edu> Subject: Lab Glass & Culturing Supplies > In HBD #723, Chris Shenton asks for lab glassware sources: Chris (& anyone else looking for equipment) I just put together 6 culturing kits. Why? I went and offered to do it for two people and thanks to minimum orders I wound up having to get enough equipment for six. Anyway, this is one stop shopping since the kit includes glassware, agar (premeasured!), inoculation loop/wire, and lots of other stuff. If anyone is interested, send some email to: msharp at cs.ulowell.edu I've also go _lots_ of extra agar that I'll sell separately. --Mike Sharp and now back to your regularly schduled program... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 08:47:53 -0400 From: rodin at ftp.com (Jonathan A. Rodin) Subject: wyeast Wyeast was a chief of a Pacific Northwest tribe. Can't recall more about him. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Rodin rodin at ftp.com 26 Princess Street (617) 246-0900 x261 Wakefield, MA 01880 I met a Puppy as I went walking; We got talking, Puppy and I. "Where are you going this fine nice day?" (I said to the Puppy as he went by). "Up in the hills to roll and play." "I'll come with you, Puppy," said I. A. A. Milne Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 09:24 EST From: "Jeff Casey / (617)253-0885" <CASEY at DAQ1.PFC.MIT.EDU> Subject: raspy rasberries Jerry Gaiser asks for comments on the harsh aftertaste of rasberries... ...I tried a batch a year or two ago. It wasn't a stout like Jerry's, but a moderately heavy ale (starting gravity about 1.055, some crystal and roast barley, and moderate hops (probably Cascades) to about bu 15 in a full grain mash of pale malt). I tossed in a couple pounds of frozen rasberries with the finishing hops, so the heat would sterilize them but not boil them. It mucked and glopped in the primary for quite awhile (Chico yeast), then plopped in the secondary for several weeks more (I'm usually not that patient, but there were many successive phases of clearing and settling). (The transfer from the primary to the secondary was of legendary mess, and worthy of not repeating the experiment alone). The result was very weird. It tasted like a fair (but not great) ale, with rasberries on the side -- the two tastes were distinct, and didn't blend well. The smell was heavenly, and the initial taste was even quite good, but the aftertaste was indeed harsh and acidic. Time (months) mellowed it a little, but not a lot. I'll admit that many of my non-beer-appreciating friends thought it was great stuff, but that did little to help. In retrospect, I don't think I should have expected more. The taste of rasberries is smooth to the nose, and sharp to the tongue -- it makes a great vinegarette salad dressing. I would love to try it again if somebody knows a recipe that offsets this properly, but I'm not anxious to repeat the experiment... ...ask me about sour cherries, though... - jeff casey casey at alcvax.pfc.mit.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 06:44:16 -0700 From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman) Subject: re: Extract yields... Dave Rose expresses his concern about extract yields, where he mentions that he is getting about 30 specific gravity points * lb. / gal. Dave, I experience just about the same yields. The highest I've had in my equipment, which is a picnic cooler/copper manifold lauter tun, is about 32.5, but I've had as little as 27. My average is about 30.5. I think that Miller's numbers must be "Fine Ground" numbers from his maltster, which represent the maximum extract that can be coaxed out in a lab. (I know he doesn't say that and in fact leads us to believe that he gets those numbers himself, however, a quick check of his 2 row yield is 35, but his recipe for Pilsner, which uses only 2 row as a fermentable, shows an extract more like 33.) Indeed, your extract relies on a number of variables: age of malt, mashing temperatures (do you really have uniform temperatures in your mashing vessel?), mash pH, and sparging technique. This last probably has the largest effect on extract. It's important to keep the temperature up in the sparging vessel so that the sugars will flow freely. I'm always interested in improving the extract, but not at the expense of the flavor of my beers, or at an unreasonable amount of time. You'll be pleased to note that many brewpubs do far worse than you; several I have visited seemed to be achieving between 25 and 28, and making good beer at the same time. The bottom line is to produce good beer with your materials. Consider that we are speaking of small quantities of grain here, and that the cost in lost extract is probably on the order of $1 for a batch. It may be of interest to note that professional maltsters and brewers don't use this form of measurement. Instead, they quote extract as a percentage of the dry weight of the grain, and this usually turns out to be in the high 70s. They also read specific gravity to 5 places (i.e. 1.12345) in quoting these numbers, and take into account the percent moisture in the grain. --Darryl Richman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 09:58:47 EDT From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Two Requests On Sat, 14 Sep 91, Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU> said: Brian> My erstwhile brewing partner is headed on a several-day trip to Brian> Scottsdale, Arizona, and wonders if there are more interesting ways to Brian> spend his beer time than bar-hopping sports bars and swilling Bud Light. Brian> Anyone out there know? Head up the road (sorry, I forgot which one) to The Tree House, in Cave Creek; it's probably a 30 minute drive. They've got some good beer, but are not a brewery; a much better selection than I found in a week of searching in Scotsdale. Good folks with a sign outside which reads ``Sense of humor necessary''. And yes, you *can* drink your beer in the tree house (and watch the sun set over the desert hills). Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1991 11:05:23 EDT From: CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU (Dave Rose) Subject: Yeast and other issues First, thanks for replies to my previous postings. Second, a recent posting asked about the shelf life of yeast cultures. I actually have not done too much culturing related to brewing, but I am a yeast geneticist by trade. The most stable way to store yeast is as a "stationary culture." This is just a culture which has been allowed to hggrow until all the nutrients in the culture medium have been exhausted. A stationary culture will keep at 40C C ( (approximately refridgerator temperature) for at least a month. It is important that the culture really be in stationary phase, since stationary cells go into a kind of dormancy which protects them during storage. Now, this is all based on lah experience, but requirements in the lab are somewhat more stringent than those in the brewing, so I imagine the same rules apply. fFinally, a question about yeast. I have been using edme dried yeast lately primarily becuase it is cheap and so am I. Also, it got a good write up in the yeast special issue of zymurgy. For three batches,now, I have ahad a wieird experience with it. Fermentation starts quickly and proceeds vigorouslyfor 1-2 days. Then, very rapidly, fermentation activity comes to an apparent standstill, with virtually no CO2 evolution and noproduction, and NO bubbling, ie the surface of the wwort is completely clear. It wstays like this for about a week, and then foam appears on the top and fermentation begins anew. I first suspected contamination, but I don't think that's it. I looked a the wort with a microscope and there are only yeast in there, and when I culture the wort on plates I only get one type of colony, which suggests (but doesn't prove) that there is no mixture in there (ie the real yeast and some wild yeast). There is also no off odor or flavor associated with the second fermentation. So basicallyit isy it is just really odd. Has anyone heelse had this experience? thanks. d. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 11:13:50 -0400 From: Dan Brown <brown at usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Subject: Lawnmower brew Re: lawnmower brew... I have heard my dad use the term before. Not sure where he got it from. It has usually be in reference to lighter beers that one might drink on a hot summer day after finnishing mowing the lawn. Its usually the kind of beer that has to be fairly cold to taste halfway decent. later. Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1991 11:17 EDT From: HERREN%midd.cc.middlebury.edu at mitvma.mit.edu Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #723 (September 13, 1991) Yes the Catamount Christmas ale is pretty good, but I want to point out that the Catamount brewery is only barely a micro, and is certainly not the only micro in the Republic of Vermont. For any of you who have an opportunity, I _highly_ recommend Long Trail Ale from the Long Trail micro, and Otter Creek Copper Ale from the Otter Creek micro. Of course those of you who are fans of lagers know the name Greg Noonan. How many of you know that he is the proprietor of the Vermont Pub and Brewery on the square in Burlington, VT? -David Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 11:15:19 -0400 From: nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan) Subject: Plastic-y taste One simple possibility for the origin of the "plastic-y" taste in some homebrews might be the use of plastic milk-type jugs for cooling water that has been pre-boiled. I boiled a bunch of water and poured it hot into the plastic jugs that it originally came out of. When I tasted the cooled water a day later it was awful! Overwhelming taste of plastic! I had made a couple of batches this way and not noticed any real problems, so either it goes away eventually or something in the beer masks the taste. Anyway, I threw that water out, and now I cool the water before putting it into any kind of plastic. Tom Return to table of contents
Date: 16 Sep 91 08:38:18 From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> Subject: RE>Homebrew Digest #723 (Se Reply to: RE>Homebrew Digest #723 (Septe >Date: Thu, 12 Sep 91 09:45:08 EDT >From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> >Subject: Re: cloves? >I also just tried the Anchor Wheat this weekend. Very disappointing -- >lacks the full body and the smooth complexity of the South German >Weizens it tries to emulate. Bummer. No cloves to speak of, either. Sorry Chris but Anchor never tried to "emulate" any style of wheat with their's. In fact they are generally credited with creating the American Wheat style. Their focus was on the unique flavor imparted by the grain rather than by the yeast (clove). RW... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1991 11:39 EDT From: HERREN%midd.cc.middlebury.edu at mitvma.mit.edu Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #724 (September 16, 1991) Regarding raspberry stouts, I have brewed a couple and here are my observations. First, I have always brewed a very high gravity stout, about 1.11 OG for a resulting brew in the 7% alcohol range. At this high gravity, there were all kinds of "off-flavors" if I drank the stout too young (ie., less than 10 months in the bottle). If the questioner can wait, do so. You will be very rewarded. I too experienced flat stout in the first months. Now I get a creamy head, wonderful raspberry aroma, and my four favorite flavors on the mouth. Raspberry, chocolate, stout, & coffee. Note that I didn't use either chocolate or coffee but the tastes are definitely there. I brew this every year in September when the local raspberries are available to be drunk the following christmas. (ie, 15 months in the future--secondary often takes 9 weeks at cellar temp-- here in Vermont, as low as 42 degrees) -David Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 11:55:08 EDT From: larry at evi.com (Larry McCaig) Subject: Using a hydrometer Brian Capouch writes > One comment on a recent thread: (inviting flames, I might add) I don't > know how anyone can call him/herself a brewer and be without a > hydrometer. According to the above, I cannot be called a brewer. I have been making beer since 1968 when the only malt available in the states was Ma Bells Blue Ribbon Malt. I have always recommended to any beginner to use a Hydrometer, and own several myself. When I make wine, I use the hydrometer, when I make beer, I don't. Based upon the type of malt used, the quantity of the same, the brewing temperature and the type of yeast used, I can pretty well determine when fermentation should be done. I also know the approximate alcohol content, and don't really care. At any rate, when the bubbles stop (around the expected time), It's time to bottle. The point I am trying to make is: I don't give a damn about how much or how little alcohol is in the beer, I'm going to get a good idea the first time I drink it! What is important to me is taste. I don't say this is great 4.5% beer, I say this is Great tasting beer. I am not trying to say there is anything at all wrong with using a hydrometer, If you can't determine when fermentation is done without one, by all means use it, that is not the point. This is sort of like using a measuring spoon in cooking, I know how much a teaspoon is by pouring whatever into my palm and looking at it. By the way, the definition of a brewer is as follows: 1.)One who makes beer from malt and hops by infusion, boiling, and fermentation. 2.)One who makes a beverage by boiling or steeping. I see nothing about a hydrometer! Nuff said. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 10:41:51 CDT From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu> Subject: Wyeast In HD #724, jmellby at iluvatar.dseg.ti.com asks >> A friend asked me where the name WYeast originated from. Apparently the >> name originally had nothing to do with yeast. Help? Somebody recently asked if Wyeast yeast had anything to do with the native American name for Mount Hood in Oregon. I don't know, but my Wyeast packages come from the town of Mount Hood, OR, and have a picture of Mount Hood on it. Pretty strong circumstantial evidence. - --- Fritz Keinert phone: (515) 294-5128 Department of Mathematics fax: (515) 294-5454 Iowa State University e-mail: keinert at iastate.edu Ames, IA 50011 Return to table of contents
Date: 16 September 1991 10:55:51 CDT From: "Roger Deschner" <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU> Subject: No cloves in Lawnmower Beer A local brewpub here in Chicago also makes its "lightest" beer, which is targeted at the lawnmower beer market, as a wheat beer. Goose Island Tanzen Ganz Kolsch is light, and actually made with a Cologne yeast and a portion of wheat as per the style. Some batches really have been reminiscent of the beer at the brewpubs of Cologne. (Technically, however, it is illegal to make a beer called Kolsch outside of the metropolitan area of Cologne, Germany; Kolsch is a legal appellation, like Bourbon in Kentucky or Champagne in France.) As far as I know, the term "Lawnmower Beer" was coined by none other than Michael Jackson, some years ago. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 12:17:54 -0400 From: jxs58 at po.CWRU.Edu (John Stepp) Subject: Brewing supplies in Cleveland I'm new to the Cleveland area and have been searching for a H-brewing supply store in the area (preferably the east side of town). The one in the Yellow Pages that I called had gone out of business. I'm considering getting supplies by mail-order from Boston (my old haunt). Thanks for the help. - -- _______________ Dave Stepp Case Western Reserve University Cleveland OH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1991 12:30:50 -0400 (EDT) From: D_KRUS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Daniel L. Krus) Subject: RE: Easy question, and Thanks! Reply to: Peter Glen Berger Inside the packaging of my hygrometer was the tabular data allowing me to convert for ?? deg. to 60 deg. The data was supplied as the number to add or subtract from your present temperature spec. grav. reading to convert to 60 deg. I plotted these values vs. temperature in both C and F. I keep this graph in the back of my brewing note book for quick reference. I thought about generating an equation but the function turns out to be nonlinear and plugging numbers into a calculator in more work than just looking at the graph and pulling off the number I need. In all cases your only correcting the 0.00X position of your spec. grav. reading. |**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:| | Internet: D_KRUS at unhh.unh.edu | Daniel L. Krus | | Compuserve: 71601,365 | Parsons Hall | |-----------------------------------------------| Department of Chemistry | | "A good word is an easy obligation, but not | U of New Hampshire | | to speak ill, requires only our | Durham, New Hampshire 03824 | | silence, which costs us nothing." Tillotson | (603) 862-2521 | |**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:| Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1991 10:32:13 -0700 From: stevec at retix.retix.com (Steven M Cohn) Subject: Lagering Help! I am attempting my first lager. We brewed yesterday from a Williams Light Lager Extract kit. The yeast (Wyeast Bavarian Lager) was pitched last night, and the carboy is currently in my living room. Should I leave it there (~70F) until fermentation catches? I had then planned to move the carboy to my fridge which doesn't seem to go above 40F. Is that too cold? If so, what can I do to protect my yeast from the beautiful Southern California weather. Also, some guidelines on how long to leave the beer in primary, secondary and how long to bottle condition would be much appreciated. In general, the experiences of people who have lagered in warm climates would be welcome. You can reply directly to me (stevec at retix.com), or if you think your reply is of general interest, go ahead and post it here. But please HURRY, the beer is getting warm! Thanks in advance Steve *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* * * Steve Cohn * * National Technical Specialist * * Retix, Inc * * stevec at retix.com * * (213) 392-6113 * * * *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 12:40:03 CDT From: tmc at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Thinking Machine) Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #724 (September 16, 1991) Could you remove tmc at ncsa.uiuc.edu from the mailing list and add saroff at uh.msc.edu? Thanks. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 10:27:06 PDT From: devonh at sol.metaware.com (Devon Heron) Subject: RE: Raspberry Stout Jerry: I like a good stout, and one a little stronger than most, but harsh aftertaste is enough to kill the weak at heart... Age will definitely help mellow the aftertaste, but I don't know if it will help carbonation. I have a friend that brews some deadly stout, and we don't even touch it for a month. The stuff is great after about 5 months. Your Raspberry Stout will probably be great for Christmas. ======================================================================= Devon Heron (Sys Admin) MetaWare Incorporated INTERNET: devonh at metaware.com UUCP: uunet!metaware!devonh ATT: (408)429-META x3082 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 13:26:33 -0500 From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu Subject: Priming Hey all -- I've read the stuff about priming buckets and stuff with a moderate amount of interest. I use a bottling bucket. One thing I don't do is stir! I boil up my priming syrup, let it cool just a bit and dump it in the bottling bucket. At the same time that I put in the syrup, I start my siphon into the bucket. I am careful not to splash or slosh as to avoid getting O2 in the beer. I also contrive to get the beer going into the bucket in such a way that it kind of swirls around. I figure that the heat of the syrup, putting it in the *bottom* of the bucket, and the swirling of the beer give me enough mixing. I've done this for quite a few batches and have never had uneven carbonation. Danny Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 17:50:54 bst From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk> Subject: Plastic tastes I can vouch for the fact that strange hop aromas can leave a plastic aftertaste upon, shall we say, expiration. Last season I tried some of the local wild hops, which looked vaguely Fuggle-like, for the first and last time. They smelt totally exciting fresh, but were totally objectionable in the final brew. I have also never found a hop extract/emulsion/oil which did not taste artificial when used as part of an aroma technique. Disappointingly, even some of the real ale here is boosted with extracts as a substitute for dry hopping. Some other sources of plastic : the 'new fermenter taste', and some surface film infections can give this sensation as well. Incidentally, Hough talks about the use of nylon to reduce chill hazes in commercial brews. My memory is dim, but I don't think he was talking about filtration. Presumably, the theory goes that polyamides such as nylon are a synthetic approximation of protein, and will precipitate some natural proteins from the brew in a similar fashion to gelatine or isinglass. The mind boggles at the aftertastes this practice might potentially leave. Conn V Copas tel : (0509)263171 ext 4164 Loughborough University of Technology fax : (0509)610815 Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - G Britain (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 11:32:11 -0700 From: benjamin at cgl.ucsf.EDU (Dennis Benjamin) Subject: Cleveland homebrew supplies A friend of mine recently moved to Cleveland, and would like to continue his homebrewing habit. However, he has not been able to find any stores that sell supplies. Does anyone on this list live in Cleveland, or know of any stores in the area? Thanks, Dennis Benjamin Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1991 15:24:21 GMT From: klloyd at convex.com (Ken Lloyd) Subject: Ironmaster Bitter ? I bought an Ironmaster Bitter kit over the weekend and it has hopped extract and a vial of ISO hop concentrate. The label on the can said to add it when fermentaion was over according to the instructions in the leaflet included with the kit. I have read the leaflet 3 times to be sure I wasn't missing it, but it doesn't have any clarification of just how to, just when, or the amount of the concentrate to use. If anyone has any experience with this kit I would appreciate any help they could give me. Thanks, Ken(ne brewer) Lloyd Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 14:55:11 EDT From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Air Stat & Fridge holes Al... >I recommend against punching any holes in the walls of refridgerators. >I was going to do this to mount my four faucets, but was talked out of >it by my dad. He pointed out that, between the inner and outer walls >of your fridge is a layer of insulation (usually fiberglass). Since the >inner wall is cold, it would attract moisture which would condense on it >and soak into the insulation. Wet insulation (besides being a home for >mold) simply does not insulate. Well I didn't just leave the hole there, I stuffed some insulation back in around the hole (it was a real thin wire, so the hole is the size of a 6D common nail), and caulked it closed. This crowd is soooo literal, guess I need to be more specific. - JaH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 12:04:55 EDT From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) Subject: Wheat In HBD 719 Martin postulated: >It seems possible to me that the real reason >brewers discovered that wheat shouldn't be mashed alone was that it >has no separate husk, as barley does, so the mash turns the >consistency of library paste. Well, actually it has a separate husk, so separate that it stays with the stalk when the grain is threshed. (this is based on my small experience with the bag-full of winter wheat I picked in the neighboring stripmine/development, they seem to have planted it to hold the dirt in place). It seems that what is needed is a wheat whose husk comes off the stalk with the seed. A friend sent me this little tidbit (thanks Corwin!): Tabernaemontanus was the Latin name for Jacob Theodor von Bergzabern who wrote an Herbal (1588) which said: "They take wheat, barley, spelt, rye, or oats, either one kind (for good beer can be prepared from all these cereals) or two or three together; they steep them in a fresh spring or good running water or (which is even better) in boiled hop water, until the grain bursts out. Then the water is run off and the grains dried in the sun. The water in which the grain is steeped is kept; when the grains are dry they are ground in the mills and the meal put into the aforementioned steep water. It is let boil for 3-4 hours and the hops added and all boiled up to a good froth. When that is done it is filled into other vessels. Some put a little leaven into it and this soon gains a sharp biting flavour and is pleasant to drink. The English sometimes add to the brewed beer, to make it more pleasant, sugar, cinnamon, cloves, and other good spices in a small bag." from: H. S. CORRAN A HISTORY OF BREWING DAVID & CHARLES, LONDON, 1975, page 47 Webster's says: spelt (spelt) n. [ME < OE < LL spelta < Gmc *spelto < IE base *(s)p(h)el-, to split off > spill] 1 a primitive species (Triticum spelta) of wheat with grains that do not thresh free of the chaff: now seldom cultivated. 2 local name for EMMER Well, tracking down emmer leads to `durum' which apparently doesn't thresh free either, perhaps this is the wheat to mash with. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 13:14:40 PDT From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley) Subject: How efficient?? From: Dave Rose <CHOLM at HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU> >I am curious about how high extract yields are among the all-grain brewers out >there. The oft-quoted number from Miller is 33. I don't get 33 degrees per pound, and I don't know anyone who does. I get 30 at best and 27 is more typical. Dr Lewis at UC Davis makes his "standard wort" with 8 lbs of grain (usually Klages) and gets a gravity of 1048. This works out to 30 degrees per pound. Miller tends to get religious about his technique, so why worry about a somewhat lower efficiency? If I have to add another pound of grain to Miller's recipes to get the same gravity, it's no big deal. >There seemed to be an inverse relationship >between the yield and the amount of grains being used, i.e. the worst yields >were in barley wines and the like where lots of grains were being handled. This is normal. Sparging is a process of dilution, so you will never get all of the sugar out of the mash. You can only approach that asymptotically. The more you sparge, the higher your yield will be, and you will end up with lots of low gravity wort. If you want a high gravity beer, you must reduce the amount of sparge water used per pound of grain. When the folks at Anchor make a batch of Old Foghorn, they do not not sparge - *at all*. Obviously this will reduce your yield. When making malt extract syrups (the ultimate in high gravity worts!), the manufacturers take the first runnings from the mash to the boiler. They then sparge the grains and use the runoff as strike water for the next mash. The yield is low, but this is cheaper for them then boiling off all of the water that it would take to get a good yield. In short, extract efficiency is a function of wort density. As the density increases, efficiency decreases. CR Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 19:59 GMT From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com> Subject: re:raspberry stout Date: 16-Sep-91 Time: 04:00 PM Msg: EXT01945 Hi, Jerry Gaiser asks about harsh tastes and raspberry stout. It seems that when you add much acid (like the acid in berries), you need to give more time for the flavors to blend. I know that raspberry wine needs at least a year to be drinkable, and more to be really good. No idea about beer, how long does it take a framboise lambic to be drinkable? On a related note, I just made a "holiday porter" with grated orange rind, cinnamon, cloves and ginger. It's happily fermenting in the heat. Why do we get a heat wave every time I brew (twice so far :)? But really, how long will this sort of brew need to age? I expect to bottle in 2-3 weeks, and was hoping to drink the brew for Thanksgiving. Anyone familiar with the type? There was also a recent thread about cleaning gunk from inside kegs. I had some really carbonized burnt on glue in my kettle. Heloise (as in hints from) advised dumping some baking soda in and letting it sit overnight. It works phenomenally. Just had to wipe the stuff off. I think baking soda is cheaper than b-bright, you can use it with hot water (unlike bleach?) and you can polish your silver with it (and a little aluminum foil and boiling water). Amazing stuff. Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY =Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, I can not receive mail in that fashion. Please send all mail to INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com OR MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753 MBX: katman.wnets385 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 16:35:05 -0400 From: Marc Light <light at cs.rochester.edu> Subject: pub database A couple of months back I requested a list of the pubs with tasty beer in NYC. I received a listing from a database from some kind fellow. The listing contained addresses, phone numbers and comments for most of the pubs. The listing stated that the database contained ca. 1300 pubs. I have since lost the listing. I would love to have access to this database! Does anyone know where it lives and how I can get at it or get a copy of it? Thanks. Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 15:04:50 edt From: Greg_Habel at DGC.MCEO.DG.COM Subject: Reply to Jerry Gaiser in HBD 724 Replying to Jerry Gaiser's question about undercarbonated bottled beer. Jerry, normally I don't use less than 3/4 cup corn sugar for priming bottles because it would give extremely low levels of carbonation. I would guess that when you used 3/4 cup CS in your first batch, it overcabonated because you bottled too soon. For me, that amount of CS produces little carbonation. Your second batch is undercarbonated simply because you did not used enough CS to prime. If you enjoy warmer beers, I would suggest allowing the bottles in your second batch to warm to 60 deg F to expand the CO2 and give more carbonation, then consume. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 15:35:27 CDT From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Priming with DME With all of the talk about priming with DME vs. corn sugar lately, I am thinking about doing this for my Christmas brew. My question is this: should I boil the DME in water to make a "syrup" and prime with that or is it O.K. to prime with the powder without boiling. I always boil my corn sugar in a bit of water before priming with it so it seems logical to do the same with the DME. What do y'all think? - -- ============================================================================== Guy D. McConnell, Systems Engineer | |"All that is gold does not Intergraph Corp. Mail Stop CR1105 | My | glitter, not all those who Huntsville, AL. 35894-0001 | opinions | wander are lost, the old Computer and Storage Technology | are just | that is strong does not Evaluation Group | exactly | wither, and deep roots are uunet!ingr.com!b11!mspe5!guy | that. | not touched by the frost." (205)730-6289 FAX (205)730-6011 | | J.R.R.T. ============================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 14:03:33 PDT From: figmo at mica.berkeley.edu (Lynn Gold) Subject: The term "lawnmower beer" I think it must be a northern Californian expression. I first heard it from a friend out here who prefers to drink Bud and Bud Light; she refers to her choice of beverage matter as "lawnmower beer." Somehow I like Fritz Maytag's idea of "lawnmower beer" better.... :-) - --Lynn Return to table of contents
Date: Mon Sep 16 14:09:44 1991 From: larryba at microsoft.com Subject: Re: All Grain Extract Efficiency In HBD 724, Dave Rose asks another good question: What kinds of grain extract efficiency are homebrewers getting? Some more Opinion: I think extract efficiency reports are sort of a weinie wag among the brew community. A couple of things to keep in mind when comparing yours to anothers: 1. The volume at the end of the boil vs the amount that actually makes it into the Keg/bottle can be quite a bit different. That will affect the appearent extract efficiency. For example if you think you will get 1.050 in 5.0 gal, but you actually have 5.5 gallons in your kettle the reading will be 5 / 5.5 * 50 or 1.046 - a big difference. 2. The extract yeild is different based on the grain type. I use Dave Miller's numbers. 3. Some people may actually extract *less* than possible to avoid getting husk tannins or because they are doing a high gravity brew and don't want to boil off 5 gallons of extra water. 4. Calcium ion makes a big difference in enzyme activity (actually the Ph, but it is easiest to control by simply having enough calcium in your water) See HBD #671 and 672 for a good summary by John Polstra. I think # 1 and #4 are the biggest factors. Your sparge bucket might also be a factor. Having a poor crush (lots of whole grain) might be a factor as well. Also, I have heard that step mashing and decoction mashing result in better yeilds. All that said, (wag, wag) I routinely get rates comparable to Dave Miller (e.g. +/- 3pt in a batch of 1.050 beer). I have sparged from 4 min/gal to 10min/ gal and have used both a sparge bag and a false bottom lauter tun. Poor crush or lack of calcium is highly correlated with my batches with poor extract rates. Well, actually, drinking too many homebrews is also correlated with my mistakes %-}. Return to table of contents
Date: 16 Sep 91 17:29:44 EDT From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com> Subject: Nitrosamines & also yeast Having read my notes on Nitrosamines, I realize I need to clarify one sentence in particular, altho none of it is particularly clear. So the whole paragraph should read: "There is a natural nitrosamine precursor, dimethylamine (sp?) in *germinating* barley. It is easily nitrosated (particularly in the presence of oxides or nitrogen) into Nitrosadimethylmine--a carcinogen. If malting barley (since malting is merely an artificial germination process) comes in direct contact with combustion byproducts, Nitrosadimethyline will result. Great Western no longer has any direct gas-fired malting kilns; theirs are either indirect hot water or air-to-air. There *are* malting houses which use direct-fired kilns and they subsequently purge the malt with SO2." In re WYeast packaging, bursting, exploding, etc.: WYeast's recommendation is that a swollen package be stuck into the refrigerator until it's needed for pitching. Certainly this will keep it from bursting. I kept a package in the refrigerator for one year so I could show my students what it should look like when ready for use. This doesn't mean I would try to *brew* with this yeast, but a day or two in the refrigerator doesn't seem to be a problem. Those who recommended a yeast starter to Norm Pyle are absolutely correct. If at all possible, the starter should be pitched at high krausen, which is generally about 8 to 12 hours from the time of the previous pitching (e.g., the time the yeast package is pitched into the starter). "High krausen" doesn't necessarily indicate a huge head on the starter, although it's usually possible to rouse one by agitating the starter During high krausen, however, the starter should be noticeably cloudy with yeast; if the starter is clear fermentation has progressed too far and the starter should be fed some more wort. With adequate aeration of the wort, and proper timing of the pitching, results should be spectacular. Incidentally, WYeast's Dave Logsdon and I are in the process of writing The Yeast Book, which WYeast will be providing to their retailers to pass on to customers. The book will be detailing procedures for using yeast; fermentation; and the characteristics of specific yeast varieties. I requested some feedback from members of the Compuserve Beer Forum and got some very useful requests. Please, if you have any specific needs relating to yeast or to WYeast products, direct them to me at Compuserve; I try to pick up all the HB Digests from the Compuserve library but occasionally they get missed. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 15:51:50 PDT From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros) Subject: One more thing... > and if you have a partial mash porter, please send it to me. thanks. Of course I meant to say "partial mash recipe for a porter", but if you want to send me a porter, I won't turn it down :-) One more question: if instead of priming with the usual 3/4 cup of corn sugar, I want to prime with honey, how much do I use? 3/4 cup? seems like I should use more, since it is probably not 100% fermentable. Also, how do I add it? boil it in some water? add it straight? seems like I should at least heat it so it is less viscous. Thanks for the help. - Bryan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 13:20:29 PDT From: Martin A. Lodahl <hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!pbmoss!malodah> Subject: Fame (No Fortune) In HOMEBREW Digest #724, Richard Stueven crowed: > Subject: We're famous! > > Quoting from the "Dear Zymurgy" section of the Fall 1991 edition, page 9: > > Editor's Note: The internet network, accessible from many > universities and corporations, carries a "Homebrew Digest." To > receive it, send electronic mail to Rob Gardner at > HOMEBREW-REQUEST%HPFCMR at HPLABS.HP.COM > > We're famous! And will be more so. The Spring 1992 edition is expected to have articles devoted both to the AHA's CI$ forum _and_ to our beloved HBD. Complete with quotes from Our Moderator. How 'bout that? = Martin A. Lodahl Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst = = malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 13:50:47 PDT From: Martin A. Lodahl <hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!pbmoss!malodah> Subject: Extract Efficiency Musings In HOMEBREW Digest #724, Dave Rose observed: > I am curious about how high extract yields are among the all-grain > brewers out there. The oft-quoted number from Miller is 33. That's right about my norm, too. General range, 30-35, stovetop step mash with Klages. Deduct 5 points for pale ale malt. > If you want a real eye-opener, go through some of the Zymurgy special > issues and look at the award-winning recipes ... average was something > like 25 and some were as low as 17! There seemed to be an inverse > relationship between the yield and the amount of grains being used, > i.e. the worst yields were in barley wines and the like where lots > of grains were being handled. This makes me suspect that a lot of > the loss comes in sparging ... Exactly! And the loss is deliberate. What's happening in the case of high-gravity beers is intentional under-sparging, sacrificing efficiency to avoid a 6-hour boil. In theory, there is a most efficient ratio of water to grain, and if this ratio is maintained, adding more grain will increase the volume of collected sweet wort, at a constant specific gravity. To produce a higher gravity wort would require a (much) longer boil. Shortening the sparge reduces that need, but at the expense of lost efficiency. Another factor that I suspect but have never been able to prove is the shape of the volume of grain. Unusually small batches, leading to unusually shallow lauter tun fills, seem less efficient in my equipment, but this makes less sense to me. = Martin A. Lodahl Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst = = malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 14:21:21 PDT From: Martin A. Lodahl <hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!pbmoss!malodah> Subject: Bottle Culturing In HOMEBREW Digest #724, Tom Quinn sez: >All the recent discussion of preparing yeast cultures leads me to ask >how one would culture the yeast from a SNPA bottle. I've never seen >a bottle of this beer - does it have a layer of sediment at the bottom >from which to start? Yep. Fairly good-sized, and densely packed. A microbiologist from Sierra Nevada told me that after brewing, they cold-filter the beer to remove the yeast, then bottle with an acid-washed inoculation of the (same type) yeast from another batch. So the yeast you can culture from yer average SNPA bottle may not have been the critters that made your particular bottle of beer, but unlike Worthington and most of the Hefeweizens, it's at least the same type. Culturing yeast from any bottle-conditioned beer is pretty straightforward. First, chill the beer overnight, to encourage the yeast to settle. Then take it from the 'fridge, and while it's warming, prepare a starter solution and sanitize your gear. For a starter solution I boil 4 Tbsp DME and a pinch of yeast energizer in 2 cups of water for 20 minutes, but I'm not attached to that; many other solutions will work. I usually boil in an Erlenmeyer flask, which I transfer directly to a water bath to cool. When it's cool, I wipe the neck of the beer bottle with alcohol, flame it, open with a sanitized opener, and decant to a pitcher (to drink when I'm done). If the beer bottle is 750ml or so, I'll then flame the necks of the bottle and the flask, transfer some starter solution to the bottle, swish it around to bring the yeast into suspension, add the rest of the starter solution, and fix a fermentation lock to the bottle. If it's a smaller bottle, I'll dump the starter and suspended yeast back into the flask, and put the fermentation lock on that. In either case, the lock will be blurping away within a few days. > Or is there a method of culturing the yeast from a filtered beer? Not that I know of. > There are some locally-produced microbrews I'd love > to try to culture from... A word of caution: though many microbrews contain live yeast, many also contain a lot of other stuff too. One of the reasons for SNPA's popularity for this sort of thing is that it's so biologically clean, while the others ... > Waiting patiently for my Zymurgy yeast issue to arrive, Yes, it's a goodie. = Martin A. Lodahl Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst = = malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 21:51 EDT From: Scott Knowles <NECHO%NCSUMVS.BITNET at ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #722 (September 12, 1991) Brewers, I look to the learned of this list for info about growing my own hops. Does anyone have experience with this? I have been told that, under suitable conditions, hopvines are quite prolific, can be trained to grow up a trellis, and require little maintenance. Just what kind of conditions are required? Are hops sensitive to soil & microclimate like grape vines are? Is growing hops an art and science like viniculture, or is it more like raising cabbage? Me thinks that a home-grown hop would be a nice adjunct to a home-brewed beer. Any tips, tricks, or stories (especially those relevant to growing in North Carolina and/or Florida) would be welcome. Scott Knowles Raleigh, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 91 22:08:28 EDT From: IO10676 at maine.maine.edu Subject: Hydrometer Correction Table Greetings All . . . A posting to HBD #724 got me to thinking . . . Last spring, my brewpartner extrapolated the table that came with our hydrometer, typed it into his computer, and put it on our system. The result is an ASCII file that has hydrometer corrections by temperature in 1 degree C increments over a reasonably large range. I'd be more than happy to share this with any HBDers who are interested. If you are, please e-mail me (privately!) and I'll compile a list. At the top of said list already is PB1P+ at andrew.cmu.com, whose posting yesterday started me on this. If there is truly OVERWHELMING response, I'll throw bandwidth to the wind and just post the whole thing (it's not THAT big, after all) to the HBD. Sterling Udell Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division IO10676 at MAINE.BITNET SU0751G at maineiac.umcs.maine.edu "Setting New Standards in Brewing Quality" - Big Dog Looker Lager (forthcoming) Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #725, 09/17/91 ************************************* -------
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