HOMEBREW Digest #761 Fri 15 November 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  ab tours in newark? (dave ballard)
  licorice root use (STAFINIAK)
  Margarita's Moult Scotch Ale (Bill Slack)
  Zip City and NJ Homebrewing (GC Woods)
  re: Hop efficiency algorithms (darrylri)
  re: Canning Wort (darrylri)
  Hangover Beers and Cloves (MIKE LIGAS)
  The Beer Hunter on Discovery Channel (martin wilde)
  Bottling cane, and cidery flavor. (Jeff McGowan)
  Fast Attenuation (martin wilde)
  BrewCap System (b11!mspe5!guy)
  Re: Potassium tablets (dbell)
  Bottle color (Norm Hardy)
  Portland brewpubs (Jerry Gaiser)
  Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer? (Jacob Galley)
  STUFF (Jack Schmidling)
  Skunks caused by rough transportation? ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Re:  Welding Stainless - A Warning (steve)
  I'm Back ("Rad Equipment")
  I'm Back                              Time:9:46 AM     Date:11/12/91
  Stainless Steel Fermenters (Alan Gerhardt)
  Devner/Vail Pubs (boubez)
  Sunstruck Flavor (Dave Suurballe)
  Homebrew Digest Submission (Mark James Easter)
  Germs and Spores in Honey (HBD 758) (Jean Hunter)
  Yeast Haze (caitrin lynch)
  Messages Received
  Yeast Haze Again (caitrin lynch)
  HBD (joshua.grosse)
  Re: Homegrown Hops (Brian Capouch)
  Re: Coriander, leaf or seed? (Brian Capouch)
  Sam Smiths Nut Brown (CCL-F) <dskeldon at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  oxidation, priming, and the Crabtree Effect (Mark Sandrock)
  Yeasts, and ordering advice (IO10676)
  Bubbles (TSAMSEL)
  Homebrew Digest #760 (November 14, 1991) (gkushmer)
  beer is good for you!? (Russ Gelinas)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Nov 1991 6:32 EST From: dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard) Subject: ab tours in newark? Hey now- Does anyone know if the Anheiser Busch plant in Newark (NJ) gives tours, and if so, who can I contact? Iko... dab ===================================================================== dave ballard "maybe you had too much too fast." dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 09:05:22 CST From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) SUBJ:Yeast in beer bottles Larry (Re- HBD #757): You are right. Bottle conditioned beers are usually not as quick to stale as those which do not contain yeast. Kiren has a new product called Fine Draft where a small amount of fresh yeast has been added at fill in beer that has already been carbonated. They report that the shelf life is triple what they normally achieve. As you might expect, the procedure can backfire if defective or old yeast is used. They also found that high levels of air uptake during fill can totally negate the advantage of the yeast. A summary of their experience can be found in MBAA Tech. Qr., Vol.28, No.2, 1991. Maybe there is something here for those of us producing "sediment free" homebrew to think about. Father Barleywine's "yeast cake" procedure was apparantely used by some small commercial breweries around the turn of the century. Charley Liebermann, a brewer from the old school, discusses the pros and cons of this and related procedures in a highly readable article titled "Yeast Management". It appeared in Brewers Digest a few years ago. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 10:43 EST From: STAFINIAK at hermes.psycha.upenn.edu Subject: licorice root use I just bought some licorice root that I thought might be nice in a h-brew. Does anybody out there have any experience using it? Specifically, I'd like to know how much to use, when to add it to the wort, whether or not I sould 'debark' it. Any suggestions would be appreciated! Thanks in advance, Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 09:39:32 EST From: hplabs!decwrl!inetgw!decvax!wslack!wrs (Bill Slack) Subject: Margarita's Moult Scotch Ale Here are my brewing notes from a recipe that seems to be turning out very nicely. Batch #53 Made 10/19/91, bottled 11/2/91, 4 gallons. Comments: Margarita's Moult Scotch Ale. An all grain (well, it has a pound of DME in it) Scotch Ale, designed by Joel Bauman and brewed by him, me and Dan Hall. Half way through the process, I discovered that Margarita, my pet Mexican Redleg Tarantula, had moulted. Hence the name. Eight lbs. English 2 row pale malt, 1 1/2 lbs. English crystal (40 L.), 1 oz. chocolate malt, 1/2 lb. dark brown sugar, 1 lb. M&F light dried malt extract, 1 1/2 oz. Kent Goldings (4.7 Alpha), 1/2 oz. Styrian Goldings, 14 gm. Whitbread dry ale yeast. Added 1 tsp. gypsum (Nashua water is very soft) to 2 1/2 gal water, brought to 165F, added to the grains and doughed in at 152F. Mashed for 75 minutes (152 to 148F). Mashed out with 3 quarts boiling water, giving a temp. of 160F (was shooting for 165). Drew off a quart and recirculated. Repeated nine more times. Sparged with five gallons water and 1 tsp. gypsum at 168F. Gravity was only 1.055 so decided to include 1 lb. light M&F DME. Started the boil. At boiling, added the DME and 1/2 lb. dark brown sugar. At 15 minutes into the boil, added 1 1/2 oz. Kent Goldings (Alpha 4.7). At 62 minutes, gravity was 1.070 and volume was low, so added a gal. of boiling water. At 73 minutes, added 1/2 oz. Styrian Goldings (unknown Alpha). At 90 minutes, started wort chilling . After 53 minutes of chilling, racked to carboy, aerated by gently sloshing the fermenter. Rehydrated Whitbread ale yeast in sterile water for a few minutes, pitched, sloshed carboy again, installed airlock. Estimated OG 1.070. Four gallons. Krausen formed overnight, fell in another day and a half. After 14 days, bottled with 1/2 cup corn sugar. Final gravity 1.019. Looks nice, malty smell and taste, noticeably alcoholic, a little harsh. It's been in the bottle a little over a week now and is starting to smooth out. I wish I had made more of this. I like the Scotch Ale style, especially now that cool weather is coming. Anyone have a SA recipe they would like to share? Anyone have a source of real Scottish grains? BTW, we used Dan's 200,000 BTU Blowtorch-from-hell Cajun Cooker. This thing is really intimidating!! At the lowest setting it boiled the full wort in something like seven minutes! Don't get one of these unless you're doing industrial level brewing! We also discovered that boiling wort on the back porch attracts yellow jackets. They swarmed around the brewpot and kept drowning themselves in our beer glasses whenever we set one down. Bill - -- ________________________________________ Bill Slack | Fine Fermentations From | wslack!wrs at gozer.mv.com | Five Farmers Trail | uunet!mv!gozer!wslack!wrs |_Nashua NH 03062__________(603)882-3190_| Return to table of contents
Date: 11 Nov 91 10:14:21 EST (Mon) From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com> Subject: Zip City and NJ Homebrewing For the NYC area HBD folks, the "Zip City Brewpub" will be opening November 21. The address is 3 West 18th Street (NYC) and phone # is 212-366-6333. Our homebrew club president was recently at the pub judging for a local competition and said they are making excellent lagers. But the big news is HOMEBREWING IS NOW LEGAL IN THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF NEW JERSEY. Yes the homebrewing bill finally passed last Thursday. The limits are the same as federal law, but there is yearly permit required just like wine ($3/yr). To give you an idea how much effort is spent enforcing the permits - there were less than 200 wine permits issued last year and I'm sure that in the Peoples Rep. of NJ that $600 is more than enough money to justify a full time person to log them. If anyone is truly interested in getting a permit you'll have to wait because the state assembly hasn't wasted enough time in meetings to decide how they want to set up the permit system! There is also some judge in Cape May, who owns the Queen Victoria Bed & Breakfast (this place is beautiful) and wants to take on the noble cause of making brewpubs legal in NJ. I hope he can do it because we are down to just 2 brewers in NJ - Anheuser-Busch in Newark and Clements in Vernon. Geoff Woods Return to table of contents
Date: Mon Nov 11 08:43:12 PDT 1991 From: darrylri at microsoft.com Subject: re: Hop efficiency algorithms strasser at raj3.tn.cornell.edu (Tom Strasser) writes: > So Darryl (or whoever), while we're on the subject, what do you think of Rager's > vs. Burch's kettle hop utilization numbers? From personal results, I'm in > Burch's corner on this one. For those unfamiliar, these two > sources vary considerably in the 25 to 45 minute boiling time regime. > While these numbers are approximations which will vary from batch to > batch, we the homebrewers have to start with a number somewhere, and then > adjust our results accordingly. I think that Burch's published numbers are very generalized; I think that Rager's density adjustment is a fudge factor; and I think that no formula could hope to cover the myriad of different variables that occur in hop utilization for any broad sweep of homebrewers. In particular, while it is very interesting to know exactly how the curve flows, I would also wonder aloud how often and how much hops are being added in this time period. In talking to Dr. Fix, he has pointed out that variables such as wort pH, kettle geometry, and boiling temperature and pressure can have a tremendous effect on hop utilization. So, a tall kettle with a small surface area in relation to its volume is probably more efficient. Folks at sea level might use less hops than those at the top of the Rockies. If you have used the Brewer's Worksheet spreadsheet I uploaded a while back (it's in the archive at mthvax and sumex-aim, and is a Macintosh-Excel spreadsheet, but Art Steinmetz produced a converted copy for PC 1-2-3), you would note that hop utilization for pellets and for flowers are factors that the user must enter. Even then, the whole IBU calculation is of first order value only. Perhaps that ought to be 0th order, since I would only guess that this yeilds in the right 5 IBUs or so, with careful tasting against controls for a particular brewery. Beware of too many decimal places! I can only say that the Brewer's Worksheet uses a very simple formula, essentially the same as Rager's (some might argue that Rager's article wasn't as clear as it might have been), minus the gravity adjustment, and I was able to "tune" it for my brewery so I could predict bitterness in relation to commercial examples, using a full wort boil. I suspect that it could be tuned to reach approximate values for most other breweries as well, at least to the extent that it is useful for predictive efforts. --Darryl Richman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon Nov 11 09:01:38 PDT 1991 From: darrylri at microsoft.com Subject: re: Canning Wort Bill Pemberton gives us his pressure canning procedure for saving wort for starters. I just wanted to note that I use a boiling water bath canning (the closed jars are boiled for 15 minutes in an open pot and then allowed to cool), and have never had a problem, even with some of the jars lasting 6 months. Because my procedures tend to leave 1/2-1 gallon in the kettle after transfering (15 gallon batch size), along with hops and break material, I filter this out and generally cut it half with water to get low gravity starters, and then can in quarts and pints. Also, I think someone else (sorry!) discussed their starter methodology, which involved taking Wyeast into a 12 oz. container and then a 22 oz. size before pitching for 5 gallons. This is really more effort than is required, since the yeast can generally build up through 4 or 5 doublings pretty quickly. So I would advise putting the Wyeast packet into a quart starter and then using that to pitch directly into a 5 gallon batch. I use about 1/2 gallon for my 15 gallon batches and get very good results. --Darryl Richman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1991 12:40 EDT From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: Hangover Beers and Cloves From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com >Yesterday, MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> said, in part, >>From my simple understanding of the phenomenon, the main culprit is >>dehydration with some credit going to vasodilation in the skull. Both alcohol >>and fusels along with some amines are the cause. The liver, that wonderful >>detoxification ... >Comments well-taken. The trouble I have with this theory is that it >doesn't explain the correlation to types or brands of beer. Below is >a list of beers that give me a headache: Florian also provided a list of beers which do not give him headaches which included, thank Gambrinus, homebrew. ;-} I've also noticed this phenomenon but I haven't documented the beers as well as Florian. The best I can say is that, for me, the culprits seem to be beers brewed with corn or corn sugar as adjuncts. Yes, that means I'm not a big fan of many Mexican beers and I use corn sugar only sparingly in my homebrew. Chalk this one up as another reason to brew beer at home! :-D From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) >>Jack I'm not sure what to make of this reply, I think you may have >>misunderstood. The cloviness comes from the YEAST not the wheat malt..., >Well, I do not have the original but I could have sworn that the clove was >connected to wheat. I have made mistake before.... No mistake. The "Troubleshooters" Special Edition of Zymurgy does state that clove flavours can come from using wheat malt. The intense clove flavour in Weizen is however the product of fermenting with S. delbrueckki. - Mike - PS: Beautiful recipe posting Lee! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 9:52:34 PST From: martin at daw_302.hf.intel.com (martin wilde) Subject: The Beer Hunter on Discovery Channel It was mentioned in HBD #757 that the Michael Jackson series "The Beer Hunter" will be shown on the Discovery Channel this Fall. If someone finds out when this will be shown, could they let us know??? I would hate to miss it... By the way, none of the video stores carry it (yet?) Martin Wilde Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1991 09:52 EDT From: Jeff McGowan <MCGOWAN at esb.com> Subject: Bottling cane, and cidery flavor. To Jeff Frane : thanks for the suggestion of buying a bottling cane - we actually did it already and used it last weekend to bottle an ale. The difference in energy expended and hair pulled out was amazing - I would *definitely* recommend one to any beginner! The India Pale Ale we bottled two weeks ago, which had a slight cidery taste last week, had none at all this weekend! From what I have read here, I assume this is not terribly unusual, right? It seems that it *is* worthwile to let the beer age for at least a little while in the bottles (if you can). Probably a silly question - how do commercial breweries which produce natrually carbonated beers which are not bottle conditioned get the carbonation in the bottle? Do they do part of the fermentation in a sealed container to carbonate the beer before bottling, then bottle under pressure after filtering? Just curious. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 9:55:11 PST From: martin at daw_302.hf.intel.com (martin wilde) Subject: Fast Attenuation I was reading that Widmer Beers are fermented at 68 degrees for 4 days and then lagered at 41 degrees for 3 days before kegging. What type of yeast attenuates this quickly? Is it because they inject oxygen into their fermenter to get the yeast to take off quickly and thus ferment fast? Martin Wilde martin at daw_302.hf.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 13:28:34 CST From: ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET Subject: BrewCap System The BrewCap system gets mentioned in the digest from time to time and I've seen it advertised in several of the suppliers' catalogs. Does anyone have any literature on it that explains its operation? I'm not totally clear on how it works. Is there any place I could write (or call) to get documentation on it, perhaps with diagrams? I have had a mild interest in it for some time but I'd like to understand a bit more about it before possibly purchasing one. Thanks for any pointers. - -- ============================================================================== Guy D. McConnell, Systems Engineer | |"All that is gold does not Intergraph Corp. Mail Stop CR1105 | My | glitter, not all those who Huntsville, AL. 35894-0001 | opinions | wander are lost, the old Computer and Storage Technology | are just | that is strong does not Evaluation Group | exactly | wither, and deep roots are uunet!ingr.com!b11!mspe5!guy | that. | not touched by the frost." (205)730-6289 FAX (205)730-6011 | | J.R.R.T. ============================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 12:26:49 PST From: dbell at cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Potassium tablets Al Richer asks: > A friend recently gave me a 500-tablet bottle of potassium supplements. I >was wondering if I could use this stuff as a water hardener, considering the >price was right...8*) > The contents of the tablets are: > Potassium: 99 mg. > There are mentions of other goodies, like stearic acid, magnesium stearate >and silica, but heaven only knows what THAT stuff's in there for, as the >potassium is in the form of potassium gluconate. Sounds like most of the "stuff" is to make it a tablet... Basically, they are binders and fillers. Dunno about using the gluconate as a "hardener". Maybe a better use would be as a hangover remedy! :{) Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 12:10:00 PST From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) Subject: Bottle color The first (annual?) Novembeer fest took place last weekend; sponsered by the Brews Brothers of Seattle. Several certified judges from the NW, including Canada, did a good job. The judges doing the pilsener category really slammed the entries with green bottles. One judge wrote "green bottles are the kiss of death" on one such entry. I think the bottle color affected their perception of the beer. Perhaps Darryl R can give some insights from his table (bitters). My duties were to aid in the data entry for the scores. Oh, the top two beers (of 83 entries) went to Rob Nelson, Brews Brother, and the steward in charge of sorting the beers upon arrival. Maybe he tweaked the computer's scores (just kidding, the judges knew what they liked). Norm Hardy Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 8:28:15 PST From: jerry at jaizer.hf.intel.com (Jerry Gaiser) Subject: Portland brewpubs >Date: Fri, 8 Nov 91 10:50:08 EST >From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> >Subject: Portland pubs? > >Yeah, another request for beer joints. (That's Portland OR, not Maine). > >I checked Schuster/Jackson last night, and he says Portland and Seattle are >beer meccas in the US. Help me out -- what are your favorite haunts? > >Thanks... I can give you my completely unbiased opinion.. :-) First off, anything in the McMenamin's empire is good starting place. The Brothers Beer have something like 26 pubs/brewpubs in Oregon of which all but about 4 are in the Portland Metro area. The food is standard hamburger fare and the beer is good to excellent and if your drinking the house brews, fresh. Mission Theatre & Pub Free Movies with the brews. 1624 NW Glisan Blue Moon Tavern Down on Yuppie row. 432 NW 21st. The Cornelius Roadhouse and Brewery In an 1859 farmhouse Sunset Highway and Cornelius Pass Rd. (Take Hiway 26 west from Portland about 20 min.) Edgefield Manor Not completely open yet. East of Portland in the Gresham area. Former Poor Farm/Old Folks home. Next is my favorite place for a Saturday evening. An eclectic variety of music, no cover, no smoking, killer pizza and good fresh beer. Bridgeport Brewpub 1313 NW Marshall NW Marshall between 13th and 14th And last the small pub connected to Portland Brewing Co. (so small that the stage for the weekend music is located on a balcony above everything.) Portland Brewing Co./Brewpub 1339 NW Flanders There are lots more, but these are from my personal experience. I'm sure you'll hear from some of the other Portland people. - -- *************************************************************************** * Jerry Gaiser (N7PWF) -- Relax. Don't worry. Have a homebrew* * jerry at jaizer.intel.com * * PBBSnet: n7pwf at n7pwf.#pdx.or.usa.na * * n7pwf at n7pwf.ampr.org [] * * Dogs and old men thrive on monotony -- Baxter Black * *************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 20:10:17 CST From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer? Hi all. First, thanks for all the help with my little questions. My Wyeast got going the very minute I sent my last panicky note. (All it took was a little of that Preventitive Murphy's Law.) I got a good deal on a carboy: $5 a pop at Bonne Sante in Hyde Park. They don't have them very often though. Call ahead. Now, another recipe from _The Closet of Sir Kenelme Digbie, Kt. Opened_ (London: H. Brome, 1669) since the last one seemed quite popular. This is from page 94. (Reproduced without permission, naturally.) A RECEIPT FOR METHEGLIN OF MY LADY WINDEBANKE Take four Gallons of water; add to it, these Herbs and Spices following. Pellitory of the Wall, Sage, Thyme, of each a quarter of a handful, as much Clove gilly-flowers, with half as much Borage and Bugloss flowers, a little Hyssop, Five or six Eringo-roots, three or four Parsley-roots: one Fennel-root, the pith taken out, a few Red-nettle-roots, and a little Harts-tongue. Boil these Roots and Herbs half an hour; Then take out the Roots and Herbs, and put in the Spices grosly beaten in a Canvass-bag, viz. Cloves, Mace, of each half an Ounce, and as much Cinnamon, of Nutmeg an Ounce, with two Ounces of Ginger, and a Gallon of Honey: boil all these together half an hour longer, but do not skim it at all: let it boil in, and set it a cooling after you have taken it off the fire. When it is cold, put six spoonfuls of barm to it, and let it work twelve hours at least; then Tun it, and put a little Limon-peel into it: and then you may bottle it, if you please. This one definitely sounds like Fun. Are there any opinions about why one shouldn't skim this one? I don't see any source of yeast in here. No clarifiers or eggdrometers either. If I can actually find all those Roots and Herbs, I'll let you folks know how it turns out. I have one other question (which I could probably do some research on instead but I think there might be some interest in this here, maybe): Has anybody out there heard of or seen, tasted or made beer with quinine as an added flavoring? I really like drinking tonic water straight, so this idea intrigues me. Maybe I'm weird, so what? Here is the address to complain to: Jacob Galley, a full-time student with a part-time reality check gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 18:40 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: STUFF To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling From: wbt at cbema.att.com > "Brew It Yourself" is a far more interesting video and at half the price to > netters. >I've never met either of you, but I've read both your work. From his editorials in Zymurgy to his book to second-hand accounts of his antics, it's obvious that Papazian is one heck of an interesting person. I suppose "interesting" applies to your writing as well, though I'd be more inclined to use "bizarre." You are entitled to your opinion but until you have seen both of our VIDEOS, your opinion of THEM is not worth much. >I have just one question. In your video, do you include a plug for the AHA? I listed in the credits, anyone and everyone who was of any help in producing the video. I received no help nor request for any such "plug" from AHA. As I am in no way affilliated with AHA, I am curious to know why you asked the question. js Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Nov 91 07:27:00 EDT From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil> Subject: Skunks caused by rough transportation? I was talking to a friend who spent two years in Germany this weekend past and he said that skunkiness in beer was not only caused by light, but by the rigors of transportation. He went on to say that the Germans import few beers because they are damaged in transport. Though I do not know for sure, I can well imagine that rough handling, or even a lot of gentle handling, can cause a problem with beer. Can one of our resident experts comment on this? Dan Graham "Beer made with the Derry air." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 91 11:35:47 -0500 From: steve at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov Subject: Re: Welding Stainless - A Warning Hi gang, Just a bit of self-introduction: I'm Chris' house-mate-with-welding-gear, and in an indirect manner, responsible for this thread. I also brew, but admittedly I've been too lazy to read the digest (that will change RSN, just sent in the request :-), so Chris has been bouncing relevant things at me as they come down the pipe. > CADMIUM CONTAINING [filler alloys] > ARE NOT RECOMMENDED FOR ANY FOOD PREPARATION MATERIALS If I could add to that... Cadmium, being the health hazard that it is, presents a danger to the welder (brazer?) as well. A snoot full of the vapors can, I believe, be lethal. Ventilation and appropriate safety gear would be a must. Every experienced welder I've talked to has told me to stay away from the stuff all together. So far, I've been following their advice. (Not too difficult to do, when you look at the price of sil-brazing fillers :-) > ... > PS. I have a 1978 copy of the Metals Handbook. It's possible that the > filler rod designations may have changed, but the basic warning is still > valid. I believe that the designations are still the same, at least according to the references I have avaliable (a late 80's Metals Handbook in the library here, and my friendly neighborhood welding supply shop. The warning about cadmium is definately a good one, and bringing it up is hardly beating a dead horse. I'd hate to see what sort of horror stories the press could come up with about people getting cadmium poisioning as a result of drinking, or making, homebrewed beer and/or brewing equipment. Steve Rezsutek Return to table of contents
Date: 12 Nov 91 09:57:39 U From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> Subject: I'm Back Subject: I'm Back Time:9:46 AM Date:11/12/91 Hi all! My LAN is back up and working so I can again communicate directly with the Digest. It is possible that my "lost" posts of 10/31 will show up today (11/12) as they were stuck in my mail server's buffer and mailed when it was re-established with the UC LAN. Sorry if they do show and are behind the times or redundant (esp. since one continues the Schmidling debates. Jeanne Sova: I liked your collection of quips and yes, this is a tough crowd. How about we all sit back and have a beer and give it a rest...). Glad to have access once again, the CI$ connection is OK but nothing beats "free" access via work. RW... Russ Wigglesworth CI$: 72300,61 |~~| UCSF Medical Center Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu |HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324 Voice: 415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H) |__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 91 12:59:19 CDT From: agerhardt at ttsi.lonestar.org (Alan Gerhardt) Subject: Stainless Steel Fermenters The comments in a previous HBD about stainless steel fermenters made from kegs are interesting. In my area, you can get them for a forfeited deposit ($12). I have used one for a boiler by cutting the top out, etc., but would be interested in how anyone has modified a typical AB keg into a fermenter. Most AB kegs I have seen have the single tap fitting in the top, which handles both CO2 in and beer out. The fitting can of course be cut out to leave a hole big enough to get your arm in for cleaning, etc., but a hole that big would be difficult to rig any kind of fermentation lock onto. If you have a relative in the welding business, you could obviously weld something up, but most of us don't have that luxury. Would anyone who has worked out these kinds of problems please post their solutions? Cheers, Alan Gerhardt Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 91 21:57:10 EST From: boubez at tastesgreat.rutgers.edu Subject: Devner/Vail Pubs Hi there. I'm going to be in Dever then in Vail during the first week of December. Naturally, I'm looking for recommendations on brewpubs, and good pubs in general. I went throught the archive, and got a couple of tips. >From thode at nprdc.navy.mil (Walt Thode): Colorado -- Denver: The Wynkoop Brewery - The first brew-pub in the Denver area. Colorado -- Vail: Alpenstube. Are there any others? What beers do you recommend? Where else can I go for a good variety of beers? Any info will be appreciated. Take care. toufic R 2 4 Toufic Boubez |_|_| boubez at tastesgreat.rutgers.edu | | | Computational Engineering Systems Lab 1 3 5 CAIP Center, Rutgers University Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 91 22:35:06 PST From: Dave Suurballe <suurb at dumbcat.sf.ca.us> Subject: Sunstruck Flavor The latest Journal of the American Society of Brewing Chemists (Vol. 49 No. 4, Fall 1991) has an article entitled "Sunstruck Flavor in Beer" written by four people from Kirin Brewery. Predictably, it confirms previous experiments with bottle color: "The formation of 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol increased proportionally to the ability of the bottle to transmit light between 350 and 500 nm." After this, they experimented with different beers in the same color bottle and noticed something very interesting: "In dark lager beer, 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol was not detected. The quantity of 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol formed in lager beer brewed without adjuncts was less than that formed in lager beer brewed with adjuncts. Thus, beer brands contribute more to the formation of 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol than green bottles do." This inspired them to identify the constituents of beer that cause skunkiness in the presence of light, so they concocted various solutions of various beer constituents and tested them. Their conclusion: "From these results, we propose that the main route of formation could be such that when beer is exposed to sunlight, isohumulones decompose to the 3-methyl-2-butenyl radical, and sulfur-containing amino acids and protein decompose to the SH radical in riboflavin-photosensitized reactions. Both radicals then combine to form 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol." "The riboflavin content in beer appears to be one of the important factors resulting in differences in beer brands in formation of 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol. And if riboflavin could be removed from beer, a beer free from sunstruck flavor might be obtained." Less interesting is their discovery that you can make the sunstruck flavor go away after it is developed by storing the beer for four weeks at 50 degrees centigrade. They didn't say how it tasted after that treatment. Suurballe Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 91 08:03:16 PDT From: Mark James Easter <easterm at ccmail.orst.edu> Subject: Homebrew Digest Submission Greetings! Some friends of mine and I started batches of Cherry Fever Stout and Propensity Pilsener Lager (ala Papazian) last night and we wondered over bottles of stout about a couple of issues. 1. What are the potential impacts of pitching yeast while the wort is still warm? We pitched at ~85-90 degrees F. 2. While sparging the lager, some of the hops made it past the screen and into the carboy. Will this have impacts beyond added "hoppiness"? 3. How much should a homebrewer shake/roll the carboy around to mix in the yeast after pitching? I've heard arguments from two camps, one that says we shouldn't add any more oxygen than we have to and another that says the benefits of thoroughly distributing the yeast outweigh any problems from added oxygen. I'd appreciate any comments you all might have...ciao. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 91 22:32:05 EST From: Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: Germs and Spores in Honey (HBD 758) What? Not boil honey? Do you know where that stuff comes from? Ordinary honey is nearly invulnerable to bacterial, yeast and mold infection due to its low water activity (essentially the same as high osmotic pressure), as has been pointed out already on the Digest. OTOH, honey is made outdoors by insects who come in contact with any and every bacterial cell, mold spore etc. that is in the natural environment. Raw honey is full of pollen, dust, plant and insect fragments and the like. Even refined honey which has been pasteurized and filtered still may contain heat-resistant bacterial spores. These spores are the reason why no honey in any form should ever be given to infants under 6 mo. old - Clostridium botulinum spores in the honey have established themselves in the digestive systems of infants, leading to "infant botulism" and at least a dozen deaths since the phenomenon was identified. The lesson here for brewers is that in the case of honey, shelf stability does not imply cleanliness. Oh, and if you're determined to use honey for priming, give it a nice long boil, at least 10 minutes, in as concentrated a form as you can. A quickie one-minute simmer won't do the job, because the most reliable way to reactivate dormant clostridial spores is a heat shock. We use it right here in the lab and it works great to establish a thriving population. Now certainly Clostridia won't thrive in the acidic environment of finished beer, but you might as well be on the safe side. At this point you might expect a strong recommendation for corn sugar, but upon reflection, I don't know what nasties might be lurking in it, either. Bottom line, a little obsession( with sanitation) can prevent depression (grieving over a lost batch). To the homebrewer with poisoned beer, did you sanitize your bottlecaps? Cheers, Jean. Clever aphorisms and fancy signature bars are so much noise. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 15:15:11 CST From: caitrin lynch <lyn6 at midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Yeast Haze I recently brewed up a Bitter ale. A simple recipe: light malt extract, goldings hops, and Wyeast (British Ale). After nearly three weeks in the bottle it still is not clear. From: caitrin lynch <lyn6 at quads.uchicago.edu> To: flynch at lmoadm.dec.com Cc: lynch at busy.dec.com, lynch at polar.dec.com, scottie at leland.stanford.edu Subject: Messages Received It was so exciting to get mail in the box and on the computer today. The E-mail is better, cuz it's not bills. We attempted an earlier message, but I screwed it up. What does cc do? Will this send to everyone else? We got the photographs of the wedding. There are some good ones. I especially like the one with grandpa, aunt nora, katherine, nick and I. A keeper. Nick wants to know how Joe and Jenny are? He says that because Christoper likes to ask Tim "Is that a keeper Tim?" Oh wait, it's a fighter he asks about. I had the pleasure of having my car towed for a mere $50 plus a $20 parking ticket today. Do you think AAA will reimburse for the towing?! Nick's beer is delicioso, but not quite like Goose Island Brewery, des. I met with the director of the South Asian battered women's shelter where I am going to do my MA research today. (Geez, Scott, all those words regarding my project are in English--I couldn't understand a word of yours!) Anyway, starting next Saturday I am going to do a 6 week training session for counseling victims of domestic violence. Then I am going to write about something to do with it. Bye. I woke up this morning around five or so and took the dog for a long walk up the river and by the new zoo that they are building. I imagine that the dog will go bezerk as we walk by and a gorilla begins hooting at him. Anyway she is a good dog Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 15:18:52 CST From: caitrin lynch <lyn6 at midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Yeast Haze Again My last message got cut off in the middle so I will repeat it. I recently brewed a Bitter ale from a simple malt extract recipe with goldings hops and Wyeast British Ale. The problem: after three weeks in the bottle the beer is still not clear. I have never had this problem before and am wondering what might cause it. Oh yeah. There is also no head on the two test bottles I have tried. Taste okay, but extremely yeasty. What gives? Nick Return to table of contents
Date: Sunday, 10 November 1991 4:12pm ET From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com Subject: HBD I'm considering a Bruheat or similar brand 220 volt mashing tun. If you've got one of these, perhaps you've run into this same dilemma: -->> I only have a single 220 volt outlet in my house, for the stove. <<-- I expect to unplug the stove when using the electric tun. But, I ask you, how can I prepare sparge water with an inoperative stove? Find a 220 volt "Y" connecter at my local hardware store? Heat the sparge water before mash in, and place it in a picnic cooler? Boil it first, and it will cool to 168 F by the time I'm ready to mash out? Hire an electrician to add another 220 line? (I'm *very* reluctant to add additional 220 service, as my basement ceiling (celetex) would need to be removed - not fun or cheap.) Your comments and suggestions would be graciously welcome. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Grosse jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com Amdahl Corp. 313-358-4440 Southfield, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 19:41:29 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU> Subject: Re: Homegrown Hops Excerpts from homebrew: 8-Nov-91 Homebrew Digest #758 (Novem.. Verify a. b. sending at hpf (47431) > Is there an easy process to determine the alpha acid content of homegrown > hops? If there isn't an easy process, what's the difficult process? It depends on what you call easy. It's essentially impossible for the homebrewer to get at the kind of sophisticated lab equipment that's required for an AA test. Oregon State University will conduct a hops analysis for a fee; I think it's about $40. It requires ~1 oz. of hops. Interested parties should contact the office of Al Haunold. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 91 19:52:57 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU> Subject: Re: Coriander, leaf or seed? There is no doubt in my mind that all brewing uses of Coriandrum Sativum (the plant that yields both the leaves known in the southwest as cilantro and the seeds known as coriander) would involve the *seeds* and not the leaves. The difference in both flavor and aroma between the two is highly remarkable: one would never know they came from the same plant. My brewing partner and I were discussing this the other day when one of us observed that indigenous cuisines in which coriander leaves are used also seem to make heavy use of chile peppers: Mexican, Chinese, Indian, and Thai are the first to come to mind. Even though this is only tangentially related to homebrewing, can any of you homebrewers (who, we've found out, often turn out to be cooks as well) think of a cuisine which uses one but not the other? A half-dozen people I've asked so far have been unable to come up with one. . . . Brian Capouch Saint Josephs' College for Children brianc at saintjoe.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 91 15:18:11 EST From: "David C. Skeldon" (CCL-F) <dskeldon at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: Sam Smiths Nut Brown I've seen submissions where people have asked for recipes to duplicate Sam Smiths Nut Brown Ale. Since I didn't keep the address of the person that asked, and everyone that answered must haved answered directly, could someone please send me their recipes for it. THANKS Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 91 17:03:24 CST From: Mark Sandrock <sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu> Subject: oxidation, priming, and the Crabtree Effect > I thought "someone else" would address the question, which I think was > missed by Richard. That is, liquid yeast, even when properly > activated, does not supply sufficient quantities of active yeast for a > vigorous start to fermentation of a 5 gallon batch. Certainly, > aeration _is_ important, but I think this is secondary to creating a > "sufficient" quantity of active starter. Novice that I am, both aerating the wort and using an adequate pitching rate fall into the category of "critically important" procedures for me. One may still do okay without them, but why take chances with your time and money at stake? > Gosh, a good old fashion unix bigot! While all you guys toodle around on > the Packards and Edsle's of OS's, Microsoft is cleaning up making fords! > Can 10 million Windows users all be wrong? ;=) Ahem. The Edsel *was* a Ford product. And can 10 million Bud drinkers all be wrong? > From: larryba at microsoft.com > > > I don't necessarily think that you will detect oxidation in your > "mishandled" beer. Why? > > >Because it is my belief that if you have > active yeast in your beer, oxidation may not be an issue. Beer that > is primed and bottled has live yeast in it. Live yeast is very > reductive (?) and chews up the oxygen + reduces the oxidized > components. I have heard that damaged beer can be revived by adding > fresh wort, yeast and letting it re-ferment. I think that is what > happens for many home brews: they are harsh at first (green?) and > then as they age they mellow out. I think it is the yeast doing it's > magic. Comment, Dave Rose, George Fix? Note that Miller points out that yeast will NOT consume O2 in the presence of a high ratio of glucose to other fermentables. This is the situation brought about when using corn sugar to prime a batch, for example. This is also an argument *against* those beginners recipes which call for the use of large amounts of corn sugar in place of malt extract. This phenomenon is know as the Crabtree Effect. (No idea where that name originated!) Bottom line: glucose (corn sugar) priming does NOT cure aerated beer. Use DME (or equivalent) to prime if O2 is an issue in the fermented wort. Cheers, Mark Sandrock - -- UIUC Chemical Sciences Computer Center 505 S. Matthews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 Voice: 217-244-0561 Internet: sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 91 18:51:48 EST From: IO10676 at maine.maine.edu Subject: Yeasts, and ordering advice First, a question: I have a couple of recipes I'd like to duplicate that involved extract-based kits, usually with other grains, hops, etc. added. However, some of them used the yeasts that came with the kits. Since these dry yeasts are of questionable viability, I'd prefer to use a yeast I can trust, but I want to remain as close to the original recipe as possible. So, my question is, is there any way to find out what yeast strains these kits supply? Other than culturing them all, which I don't have the equipment for. What I'm ideally looking for is a reference that says something like, "Mountmellick Stout uses the same strain as Wyeast #xxx, Ironmaster Brown Ale uses Wyeast #yyy," and so forth. I know I probably won't get something that nice, but hey. Second: I recently joined a local food cooperative that carries brewing supplies at nice, low, just barely above wholesale prices. Definitely a Good Thing. However, the person who used to order this stuff has left them, and I got roped into doing the job. So, here's my proposal to the HBD: Given a budget of, say, $350, what should a brew supplier order from their wholesaler? Obviously malt, hops, yeast, and accessories, but more specifically . . . Anyway, I'll be drawing up the order sometime next week. Please email me your suggestions; after I make the final list, I'll probably post it to the digest. Thanks! Sterling Udell Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division "Beer is our business, and business is GOOD." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1991 8:39:52 -0500 (EST) From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV Subject: Bubbles This may have already been noted but the October PHYSICS TODAY has an article on the physics of beer bubbles. (Through a Beer Glass Darkly) pp48-52. Ted Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 9:03:54 EST From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU Subject: Homebrew Digest #760 (November 14, 1991) Hey guys. I recently got an old glass carboy off my grandfather. He used to put water in it and then add coloring. Way back when, they would put these things on the front steps. Now, the carboy has a slight bluish tinge and has been empty/dry for a long time. Anyone think I should even try cleaning it out (and what with) or does this sound too risky? Thanks. - --gk Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1991 9:17:25 -0500 (EST) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: beer is good for you!? What is the nutritional value of beer? As a some-time vegetarian, I'm aware of the benefits of mixing grains, beans, and dairy products as protein compliments. Grains? Beer! Is there enough of the needed amino acids in beer to act as a protein compliment? Is beer *really* good for you? (I'm not addressing the stress-relief effect, just nutrition). Warning: I washed the outside of a package of Whitbread yeast, opened it, and found one quarter of the package to be wet. The package leaked. Luckily there was still a lot of dry yeast in there. I rehydrated it and it smelled ok, so I pitched it, and all seems fine. I've never had any problems with Whitbread yeast in the past. I want to comment on the js bs, but I'm not going to. Let's talk beer. Russ G. OPAL/ESP UNH Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #761, 11/15/91 ************************************* -------
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