HOMEBREW Digest #762 Mon 18 November 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Re: Ads on HBD (Mike Sharp)
  Re: Draught Guinness in a Can (gkushmer)
  Chillers redux (Tom Dimock)
  Porters, Recent travels. etc... (Michael Zentner)
  Remove me from the HBD (RHEWETT)
  Remove me from the HBD (Bob Hewett)
  Blow off, blow out, blow by, blow up (Rob Malouf)
  Ales, Lagers, Beer (Norm Pyle)
  Trouble shooting bad beer... (Sean Conway)
  cats and garlic (was beer for the woods) (Carl West)
  I'm Back ("Rad Equipment")
  I'm Back                              Time:9:56 AM     Date:11/14/91
  Cardboard Nose (Bob Jones)
  Rathskeller in D.C. (not an ad) ("HEY MAN, FAH Q")
  STUFF (Jack Schmidling)
  Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer? (Jacob Galley)
  Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer?
  Wanted: Wheat Stout recipes (Rich Lenihan)
  London Inns (chuck)
  Re: chilling (Dr. Tanner Andrews)
  cadmium horror stories (Mark Sandrock)
  AHA Plug (wbt)
  All you homegrowers (Jonathan A. Rodin)
  Malt sources (Crawford.Wbst129)
  Stainless Steel Fermenters (Tom Dimock)
  licorice root, multiple bottle filler (Jeff J. Miller)
  Re: HD761 Quality (MIKE LIGAS)
  Natural Carbonation (MIKE LIGAS)
  Wrigley Red (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  The Color of Beer (Frank Tutzauer)
  Re: Well water brewing ( Neil Mager)
  Up Yoors Coors (A bumper sticker, not a flame) (Steve Kirkish)
  Bottle color ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Re: The Beer Hunter on Discovery Channel (Chris Shenton)
  corriander and chile peppers (Frank Tutzauer)
  primary in SS (Russ Gelinas)
  Recipe for Tej? (Arun Welch)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 8:52:35 EST From: Mike Sharp <msharp at cs.ulowell.edu> Subject: Re: Ads on HBD Hi, before I too join the Jack/Commercialism thread, I thought it would be good to actually post a few things about homebrewing so... I need some help. I need a bio-tech. type person in eastern MA/southern NH to run some tests for me. More specifically, I'd like someone to determine the 'purity' of a number of cultures I have. These are not common everyday cultures, and cannot be easily replaced. In fact, they're not even Saccaromyces cultures. To the best of my knowledge they are fairly uncontaminated, but I would like that verified. Further, if I'm wrong, I'll need some isolation work done. Finally, I'd like to have a few master tubes placed in an ultra-low temp freezer. I am willing to pay/barter for these services -- the reason I'm asking here is that a fellow HBDer might not rake me over the coals as much. Anyone interested should send me e-mail for details. (how about that, HBDs first Help-Wanted) and something to add to the general discussion: How does one place a false bottom inside a 15gal keg? I've been trying to figure this one out for a while. I've come up with a number of good techniques, but all of them involve welding inside the keg. I know that someone at the last AHA conference gave a talk on building a 15gal keg-brewery, but I can't remember upon what the false bottom reseted. Does it fit snugly into that lower reenforcing band with some feet for hold up the middle? Does it sit on the bottom weld in the very bottom of the keg? and finally, Al Korz writes > Jack quotes Mike-- > >>FWIW, Jack pointed out that commericalism is OK on Internet so I thought > >>I'd just add my $0.02. > I don't think it's OK here. > >Perhaps we should post information about this video on a regular basis. > Perhaps not, Mike. > I'd like to point out that Kinney Baughman is Mr. BrewCap, BrewHeat, > and BrewChiller and has always (to the best of my recollection) been > very non-commercial in his discussions of these products. Yes, I've dealt with Kinney before, although he might not remember it. I've had nothing but good experiences in dealing with him. Anyway, on to my main point, are you trying to tell me that you missed that *entire*line* of smilies in my original message? Were you reading the original through a sarcasim filter? Actually, I agree with you about 98%. Generally commercialism on HBD should be avoided, but I do believe it should be ok to use it as a forum for selling surplus or old equipment and the like NOT as a replacement for Zymurgy ads. A while back it was suggested that such announcements be limited to something in the neighborhood of 5 lines. I like that idea. -Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 9:15:08 EST From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU Subject: Re: Draught Guinness in a Can Draught Guinnes in a can is not all that new. They were coming out with it a few years ago while I was still living in England (they used the theme from Hawaii 5-0 to promote it. That was a kick). Every time I go back, my ex-girlfriend's dad stocks the fridge with them. I just have to drink it out of courtesy, and he just feels obligated to finish off what I can't :-}. But seriously, it tastes pretty good and is worth a couple bucks to try just once. Now that it's coming to the U.S., I'm hoping to do the same. - --gk Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 09:32:00 EST From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: Chillers redux Some comments and a question or two on chillers. I have been very interested in the relative merits of immersion and counter-flow chillers, and thought it might be useful to summarize some of that information as background to a few questions. Speed of chilling: It sounds like either type can chill a five gallon batch in 15 to 20 minutes, the important distinction being that with an immersion chiller this is a parallel process (each little bit of wort takes the same time to cool) whereas the counterflow chiller is a serial process (each little bit of wort cools in a matter of seconds, but they have to wait their turn). Also, with a counterflow chiller, the wort is protected from oxidation and contamination during the entire time it is being chilled (assuming the chiller is properly sanitized). Here I would definitely give the advantage to counterflow. Cold break: If I understand correctly, this is a function of how fast the drop in temperature happens. Advantage counterflow. Ease of sanitizing: The immersion cooler can be put in the boiler for the last part of the boil. The counter-flow must be either pre-sanitized, or you can run some of the boil through before turning on the chilled water (I don't think I'd trust this, myself). Some folks have indicated a certain nervousness about how you make sure that the inside of a copper pipe is really clean - it's really hard to see in there! Advantage here goes to the immersion chiller. Cost: Depends a lot on your construction techniques and skill at scrouging. A counterflow chiller is more work to put together, and involves more fittings, but it uses less copper tubing. Immersion chillers are both more available and cheaper from commercial sources. Probable advantage: immersion. Efficiency of water use: Dead heat. Both can recirculate water if you live in a place where that's a problem. Separation of wort from trub/cold break: Here is where I have a question or two. The immersion chiller has no problem here - you can whirlpool the cooled wort and then siphon off carefully, leaving most of the trub and cold break behind. With the counterflow chiller, the trub can be left behind, but the cold break would seem to end up in the primary. So how do you counter-flowers out there deal with the (very good) cold break? Do you just ferment on top of it, or do you use an intermediate vessel where you can whirlpool and aerate and then rack to your primary? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 09:57:48 -0500 From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner) Subject: Porters, Recent travels. etc... First let me begin with with a few replies to recent posts. Jack Schmidling writes: > This evening I had the opportunity to check my taste buds against some > experts at a meeting of the Chicago Beer Society. Before I present their > opinion of my oxidation experiment, a little background..... > ... > It was a fun time and we met a lot of fine people and sampled a lot of beer. > Marilyn liked everyone she tasted better than the last one. I naturally > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > liked mine best. In spite of this, I let her drive home. Wow! Who is this Marilyn and what does it take to get her to one of our tastings! This truly was a Bacchanalia in every sense of the word, huh? (Yes, I know what you meant..."every one" and not "everyone", but couldn't resist the humour possible). Seriously, though, about your post, I think it's great that you actually tried this oxidation experiment. I, too, have never noticed the awful effects of oxidation when I know I screwed up somewhere and splashed a lot. However, I'd also have to ask about your experiments concerning the storage conditions. As we all know, certian reactions (well most reactions) exhibit a temperature dependant rate. Depending on at what temperature these beers were stored, you may not notice any effects. Further, there are actually two problems with splashing, as I understand it. First, there is oxidation. Again, as I understand it, this is really only a concern while the wort is really hot. Oxidation is a chemical reaction. Then, there is aerobic activity, which is caused when yeast get exposed to oxygen while fermenting. This is a biochemical reaction. How would one structure experiments in order to isolate one effect from the other? I don't know for sure about that, but I think it would have been interesting if you'd actually abused 9 bottles, stored 3 batches of 3 at various temperatures, and opened one from each batch of 3 over time. You can't flame someone for noticing oxygen effects if they're storing their beer at 85F and you have yours in a cold room. SECOND TOPIC : Gloaters... I'd like to take an opportunity to thank all who suggested things to do, beers to drink, etc... in my somewhat recent request for information of Belgium and Germany. Also, I guess, I'd like to gloat! We spent 5 days in Belgium followed by about 10 days in Germany. German beer is very good, for what it is, but is far less "interesting" than the stuff in Belgium....ergo...reccommendation. Go to Germany first, then Belgium. The beer highlight in Belgium had to be the Kulminator. For you gloaters paying $5 for Duvel at Weinkeller, I had a 1985 Stille Nacht for less, and a 1980 Chimay Blue for $7. This place is absolutley fabulous for variety. Also excellent were Liefmans Goudenband and Rodenbach Grand Cru. Of course there were several others including Orval, several frambois'es, krieks, gueze's, etc... Apparently there is a bit of controversy over a recent decision to start filtering Duvel....in any case, the stuff I bought here had yeast in it, the stuff over there did not. One thing you notice for sure is that something horrible often happens to this beer in transit when they import it, because it all tasted better over there (and it wasn't just atmosphere). Germany was fun too. We visited both Hofbrauhaus and Andechs. The four in our group thought the Hofbrauhaus was a lot of fun, but both the beer and atmosphere at Andechs were better. We also had the opportunity to have real Budvar Budweiser on tap, which was quite good. Someone here made mention of these brewery hotels in this forum. We stayed one day at Hirsch hotel/brewery in Ottobeuren. Some of the beer here was not good; however, both the light and dark spezial made up for this. Also, if anyone is going over there, or if the person who's keeping the database of pubs/ etc... wants to know about it, we picked up a whole little booklet about brewery hotels all over germany while we were there. I wish I could actually list the beers we tried, but they are far too numerous to even remember. The best part of German beer, or better stated, the part we enjoyed the most was getting fresh Weizen and Dunkel Weizen, as that is what is most difficult to come by in this part of the states. One more note...although this is a beer forum, if you're driving through the wine regions and enjoy wine at all, don't miss a chance to taste some wonderful wine and experience great atmosphere all for a reasonable price. Overall, we were able to bring back 27 assorted bottles of beer of varying sizes and styles, much of which was bought at Maroun Markt - the largest beer market in the world. It's like going out and buying a case of Bud here to go there and buy a case of Weizen. FINAL TOPIC : Porters... Another side advantage of the recent trip was that when I came home, two batches of homebrew that were bottled before we left seemed to age gracefully. We had made a weizenbock and a porter. The latter had me worried upon initial tasting because I used a pound of black patent as someone else did in the Winners Circle. The initial tasting of this beer indicated that there was far too much black patent. Now, though, either my taste buds are accustomed or this beer aged very nicely. So what I'm asking is how much dark grain do the rest of you porter lovers use and what do you feel is the optimal "time in bottle"? Mike Zentner zentner at ecn.purdue.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 14:43 GMT From: RHEWETT <RHEWETT+aBECHTEL%Bechtel_Corporation at mcimail.com> Subject: Remove me from the HBD To: LINK --MCI From: Bob Hewett Subject: Remove me from the HBD I need to be taken off the Home Brew Digest's Mailing list. It seems that the HBD crashed their puny, out dated mailing system so the Neo-Nazi E-MAIL people out in San Francisco read my mail and decided that "The Home Brew Digest is clearly unrelated to Bechtel business..". Little do they realize that Home Brewing is one of things that allows me to return to work everyday. I think they need to relax and have a Home Brew. Once again: ******* PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE MAILING LIST. ****** They're threating to revoke my rights to the internet... Bob Hewett - --- "Freedom of speech. Just watch what you say." - Ice-T Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1991 10:42 EDT From: Rob Malouf <V103PDUZ at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: Blow off, blow out, blow by, blow up >An important point here is to do those things that you deem important >to improving your beer, given your own personal experiences. My early >homebrews (pre-blow-off) suffered from a bitter astringency that I >found objectionable. The first beer I tried using the blow-off method >didn't have it and I've never gone back. It is finally time to retire my old plastic fermenter, and I am trying to decide whether to start using the blow-off method. My first brews also suffered from a bitter astringency (to say it was "objectionable" is an understatement). As my skill as a brewer increased, the harshness faded. Now that I have switched to all-grain brewing, there is no hint of that old harshness left (so all the other flaws come through clearly!). I wonder if the blow off method is like a long aging period for ales. A month or so in the basement greatly improved those old harsh ales, but now my brew is drinkable as soon as it's carbonated. Perhaps the blow-off method allows the beginner to get away with not-so-great brewing technique. Has anyone ever stopped using the blow-off method once they became "expert" brewers? Then again, maybe all those early brews permanently desensitized my tongue, and I just don't notice the astringency anymore. Rob Malouf v103pduz at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 08:31:41 MST From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle) Subject: Ales, Lagers, Beer To Micah Millspaw: I think most people in this forum know the difference between a lager yeast and an ale yeast (and therefore the difference between a lager and an ale). It is easy to stereotype, though, since most lagers running around (the US anyway) are lighter recipes, and most ales (who are greatly outnumbered) tend to be darker and more full-bodied. The point is well-taken but has it really been _that_ prevalent on the hbd? To All: With all of the microbreweries popping up around, does anyone know of a job opening? I'm thinking of maybe an apprentice taster position... 80) Keep on Brewin' Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 10:33:43 -0500 From: sean at evi.com (Sean Conway) Subject: Trouble shooting bad beer... I thought it would be useful to list some common problems of bad beer and what MOST LIKELY could be the reasons for why they turned bad. None of these quotes are my own but come directly from Charlie Papazians' first edition of the "The Complete Joy of Home brewing" (my bible). BTW: Bravo to "BAUGHMANKR"!!! ******************************************************************************* All excerpts from TCJOHB by Papazian are in qoutes (just protecting myself. I dont want to become another Joe Biden or the Joaquim ? from BU)... CIDERY FLAVORS "The number one reason why homebrewers may brew a cidery flavor beer is that an excessive amount of corn sugar and especially cane (or beet) sugar is used." SOUR FLAVORS "Bacterial infection often enhanced by warm brewery temperatures and sluggish fermentations are to blame for sour beer." MOLDY BEER "Moldy beer is the result of inadequate cleaning of equipment and undue exposure to microorganisms. Mold also is more likely to develop with inaprpopiate lagering (aging) at temperatures above 60 degrees F (16 C)." CLOUDY BEER "The problem is, again, another kind of bacterial infection. It isn't the fault of the malt nor the sugars, and unless you are using very old or contaminated yeast, it isn't the yeast's fault either." FLAT BEER "I don't know of a reason unless you've left an excessive amount of sterilant in your bottles or you are storing your beer at excessively cool temperatures." My $ 0.02 cents worth - you forgot to add priming sugar... OR its the morning after the frat party and you are drinking the leftover beer out of the keg. OVERCARBONATED BEER "The simple explanation is that you've added too much priming sugar." STRANGE AFTERTASTES "If you've got'em, either leave those baby diapers out of the brew of keep the risk of bacterial infections to a minimum." A FAMOUS DADILY - he who brews with diapers may get bad beer. Anyone want to try experiments APPARENT PREMATURELY STUCK FERMENTION "More often than not you're worrying... Aeration of the wort and choice of yeasts will make some difference, but usually minimal. Roll with the punch and bottle when fermentation has stopped or is neglible." ******************************************************************************* Hope some people of there find this summary usefull! sean at evi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 11:24:03 EST From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) Subject: cats and garlic (was beer for the woods) Somehow this got garbaged in #760, I'm trying again :-/ Russ suggested: >...that brewer's yeast and garlic will keep >away bugs, like mosquitos and black flies, and fleas too so give some to your >dog/cat. OK for dogs, but apparently it can be a very effective way to kill a cat. I have this from a veterinarian who has watched too many cats die in the arms of their owners after they had been `treated' at home with garlic. Apparently it does bad things to their blood (exactly what, I don't remember). I know it doesn't have anything to do with beer, but I couldn't let it pass. (we've got four cats at home and they're all very special to me) Carl West WISL,BM. Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Nov 91 09:56:06 U From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> Subject: I'm Back Subject: I'm Back Time:9:56 AM Date:11/14/91 Hi all! My LAN is back up and working so I can again communicate directly with the Digest. I apologize that my "lost" posts of 10/31 showed up today (11/14) as they were stuck in my mail server's buffer and mailed when it was re-established with the UC LAN. Sorry for the redundancy and the increased noise (esp. since one continues the Schmidling debates. Jeanne Sova: I liked your collection of quips and yes, this is a tough crowd, but a committed one as well. How about we all sit back and have a beer and give it a rest...). Glad to have access once again, the CI$ connection is OK but nothing beats "free" access via work. RW... Russ Wigglesworth CI$: 72300,61 |~~| UCSF Medical Center Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu |HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324 Voice: 415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H) |__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1991 13:07 PDT From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov> Subject: Cardboard Nose Thought I'd pass on a recent experience with cardboard nose beers. I helped judge last week at the Calif. All State Homebrew Competition. This comp. is always well run and great fun. Lots of brew discussions, food, music and of course BEER. Great job again this year! The San Andreas Malts won the coveted homebrew club of the year award this year. They deserve it. When I got there I noticed they were using glasses for the judging samples instead of plastic cups. I was relieved to see Steve Norris busy rinsing that cardboard smell out of the glasses with a hot water rinse. Since Steve don't enter competitions anymore, they make him do the dishes. Anyway the first few beers we judged had a distinct cardboard (sometimes almond like) nose. I knew it couldn't be the glasses I saw them being rinsed and they smelled clean prior to pouring. I ran into this same thing at the Calif. State Fair comp. 2 years ago. If your sensitive to this smell, its like judging next to someone who is smoking. I got a plastic cup and we poured the next beer into a rinsed glass and the plastic cup, and the smell was only in the "rinsed" glass. I don't understand what is going on here but it ain't good for beer competitions. I stayed with the plastic cup for the rest of the judging, rinsing after each beer. Maybe the smells get released when the beer hits the glass do to the alcohol or ph or something. I think all competitions should switch to clear plastic cups to prevent this problem. What the hell their cheap. Bob Jones Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1991 18:03 EST From: "HEY MAN, FAH Q" <HOPKINSCH at urvax.urich.edu> Subject: Rathskeller in D.C. (not an ad) Fellow Brewers - I will be going home to Washington, DC for Thanksgiving Break and wanted some input on international beers. I'm going with a few friends to the Rathskeller (a bar off Conn. Ave) that has thousands of beers from around the world -- any input on some esoteric favorites? Personally, I'm a Bass Ale/Guinness type. I think my all-time favorite is the Augerstinerbrau made in Munich (Maximator). Yet, on a day-to-day basis, I admit, I usually order a draft light beer for happy hour/etc (hey, I'm a college student; at least it's not Milwaukee's Best). Nonetheless, any suggestions of beers-to -try would be appreciated. Christopher HOPKINSCH at URVAX.URICH.EDU Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 14:37 CST From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: STUFF To: Homebrew Digest Fm: Jack Schmidling ------------------------------ From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU Subject: It's Flame Time!! >Flame on!! I have been advised by constructive critics that responding to the likes of you may satisfy my ego but serves no useful purpose. Instead of responding to your hateful rubbish in public I will let this one pass as a test of your sincerity. From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> >Jack, as far as "you" are concerned your beer has never tasted like cider or cardboard. These are flavors (along with many others found in beer) which different people have different sensitivities to. This is why I suggest you have an independent palate, preferably one that has experience with homebrew, taste your experimental brew against your control batch. I did just that and posted the results yesterday. But more to the point, another beer that I have been calling clove-like, they declared, "banana". It was instant and unanymous. I was dumbfounded. I have sniffed and tasted it a hundred times since and still call it clove without the slighted hint of banana. Marylin, BTW now agrees with them. js ~. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 19:00:56 CST From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer? The Digest was down for Tuesday and Wednesday, right? I think that the following message is responsible: The other time I quoted from Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. (without permission) was the LAST time the Digest broke, back in September. Hmm. --------------- Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu by midway.uchicago.edu Mon, 11 Nov 91 20:10:21 CST Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 20:10:17 CST From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu> To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Subject: Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer? Message-Id: <CMM. at ellis.uchicago.edu> Hi all. First, thanks for all the help with my little questions. My Wyeast got going the very minute I sent my last panicky note. (All it took was a little of that Preventitive Murphy's Law.) I got a good deal on a carboy: $5 a pop at Bonne Sante in Hyde Park. They don't have them very often though. Call ahead. Now, another recipe from _The Closet of Sir Kenelme Digbie, Kt. Opened_ (London: H. Brome, 1669) since the last one seemed quite popular. This is from page 94. (Reproduced without permission, naturally.) A RECEIPT FOR METHEGLIN OF MY LADY WINDEBANKE Take four Gallons of water; add to it, these Herbs and Spices following. Pellitory of the Wall, Sage, Thyme, of each a quarter of a handful, as much Clove gilly-flowers, with half as much Borage and Bugloss flowers, a little Hyssop, Five or six Eringo-roots, three or four Parsley-roots: one Fennel-root, the pith taken out, a few Red-nettle-roots, and a little Harts-tongue. Boil these Roots and Herbs half an hour; Then take out the Roots and Herbs, and put in the Spices grosly beaten in a Canvass-bag, viz. Cloves, Mace, of each half an Ounce, and as much Cinnamon, of Nutmeg an Ounce, with two Ounces of Ginger, and a Gallon of Honey: boil all these together half an hour longer, but do not skim it at all: let it boil in, and set it a cooling after you have taken it off the fire. When it is cold, put six spoonfuls of barm to it, and let it work twelve hours at least; then Tun it, and put a little Limon-peel into it: and then you may bottle it, if you please. This one definitely sounds like Fun. Are there any opinions about why one shouldn't skim this one? I don't see any source of yeast in here. No clarifiers or eggdrometers either. If I can actually find all those Roots and Herbs, I'll let you folks know how it turns out. I have one other question (which I could probably do some research on instead but I think there might be some interest in this here, maybe): Has anybody out there heard of or seen, tasted or made beer with quinine as an added flavoring? I really like drinking tonic water straight, so this idea intrigues me. Maybe I'm weird, so what? Here is the address to complain to: Jacob Galley, a full-time student with a part-time reality check gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 19:36:49 EST From: rich at bedford.progress.COM (Rich Lenihan) Subject: Wanted: Wheat Stout recipes Well, its been a week since I last asked for a wheat stout recipe. The response has been underwhelming! If anyone has one or would like to suggest where I might find one, please drop me a note. I have one roughed out in my head but I'd like to see what other brewers might have tried. Incidentally, this will be an extract brew, but I'll convert any all/partial-mash recipes I receive. I'm more in interested in the hops, adjuncts and procedures, anyway. Thanks in advance. While I'm here, I'll add that I, too, agree that a certain HBD contributor has become "tiresome" (as have those who rise to his bait). Maybe if we all just ignore him, he'll go away. I love a good flame war as much as anyone but geez guy, give it a rest, will ya? Most of us can't read as fast you can type. This is my last word on *that* subject. Let's get that S/N ratio back where it belongs! Rich Lenihan UUCP: mit-eddie!progress!rich Progress Software Corp. Internet: rich at progress.com 14 Oak Park Real life: 20-I Brandywine Drive Bedford, MA 01730 Shrewsbury, MA 01545 USA (508) 754-7502 "Beer is a mellow drink, but it keeps you on the run..." - The Bartender's Bounce Return to table of contents
Date: Thu Nov 14 23:15:32 1991 From: synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET Subject: London Inns Warning: this isn't exactly homebrewing, but it's related... Does anyone have a copy of the CAMRA guide to Inns? I'm not sure of the exact title, but I've seen it mentioned in the Good Beer Guide. I'm looking for recommendations for a place to stay in London with an excellent pub on premises. Traveler's Tip: you can drink later in a pub if you are a 'resident' of the attached inn. So this message isn't a total waste of bandwidth, let me recommend the following inn: Traquair Arms, Innerleithen, Scotland. The name says it all. Bear Ale on draft, and Traquair House Ale in bottles (try a mixture). Decent restaurant. The castle is just outside of town. If you visit the brewery, say 'hi' to Ian. - ----- Chuck Cox SynchroSystems chuck%synchro at uunet.uu.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 7:02:14 EST From: Dr. Tanner Andrews <tanner at ki4pv.compu.com> Subject: Re: chilling ) ...after five batches, however, they could start thinking ) about a wort chiller... And maybe not. After 80 batches, I'm still just thinking about the chiller. I'm actually just dropping the pot in the pool and letting the heat dissipate harmlessly into 20,000 gallons of (seasonally cold) water. If I get the chiller, I'm going to get one of those drill-powered pumps and use it to just circulate pool water or ice water through a set of coils. With either source, the output will go into the pool; that way I won't waste water. - -- ...!{bikini.cis.ufl.edu allegra uunet!cdin-1}!ki4pv!tanner Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 4:32:07 CST From: Mark Sandrock <sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu> Subject: cadmium horror stories > From: steve at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov > > The warning about cadmium is definately a good one, and bringing it up is > hardly beating a dead horse. I'd hate to see what sort of horror stories > the press could come up with about people getting cadmium poisioning as a > result of drinking, or making, homebrewed beer and/or brewing equipment. I recall reading a story some years back about a family who received cadmium poisoning by using refrigerator shelves as barbecue grills!! Apparently the metallic coating on the shelves contained cadmium, which was absorbed into the food as it cooked. Don't remember any other details, but ever since I've avoided placing raw food, such as fruits or veggies, directly on the refrigerator shelf just in case. Can anyone comment about this? It's a bit off the subject, but surely worth any enlightenment possible due to the seriousness of the effects. All I can say is that whoever decided to use cadmium in a product such as refrigerator shelving has to be criminally stupid, imo. Not that the person who decided to use them for grilling was being real smart either. I don't know if cadmium is still used this way, but I surely hope not!! Mark Sandrock - -- UIUC Chemical Sciences Computer Center 505 S. Matthews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 Voice: 217-244-0561 Internet: sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 7:42:15 EST From: wbt at cbema.att.com Subject: AHA Plug > From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) > From: wbt at cbema.att.com > > >I have just one question. In your video, do you include a plug for the > AHA? > > I listed in the credits, anyone and everyone who was of any help in producing > the video. I received no help nor request for any such "plug" from AHA. As > I am in no way affilliated with AHA, I am curious to know why you asked the > question. I'd think that with your stated goal of helping bring newcomers into the homebrewing hobby you would naturally want to tell them how to get in touch with the AHA. It is, after all, the largest homebrewing association in America, if not the world, not to mention a tremendous source of useful information. Even if you don't care to join the organization yourself, it would seem sensible to at least inform your viewers of its existence. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Thacker AT&T Network Systems - Columbus wbt at cbnews.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 08:02:36 -0500 From: rodin at ftp.com (Jonathan A. Rodin) Subject: All you homegrowers > > Is there an easy process to determine the alpha acid content of homegrown > > hops? If there isn't an easy process, what's the difficult process? > > It depends on what you call easy. It's essentially impossible for the > homebrewer to get at the kind of sophisticated lab equipment that's > required for an AA test. OK, if it is impossible for homegrowers to determine the AA content of your hops, how do you figure out how much of your hops to use? Many recipes call for x amount of bittering units. Do you just guess? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Rodin ftp Software, Inc. voice: (617) 224-6261 rodin at ftp.com 26 Princess Street fax: (617) 245-7943 Wakefield, MA 01880 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 05:49:22 PST From: Crawford.Wbst129 at xerox.com Subject: Malt sources I noticed that George Fix has mentioned Ireks Pilsner malt a couple of times (in this forum and in Zymurgy) as high quality. Does anybody know where I can get some Ireks? Also, some of the winning recipes in Zymurgy use some different malts like Scots and Brown malt. Does anybody have a source with a good selection of malts? I'd like to see just what is available. Thanks, Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 08:44:48 EST From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: Stainless Steel Fermenters Alan Gerhardt asks about modified keg fermenters.. Although I am not fermenting in stainless, my approach would be to just remove the tapping core, and then work through the fitting opening the same way as I now use carboys. Do you cut out the tops of your carboys to get your arm in for cleaning? Just kidding.. :-) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 8:12:41 CST From: jmiller at anubis.network.com (Jeff J. Miller) Subject: licorice root, multiple bottle filler Re: Pauls suggestions for licorice root: I have used both licorice root and stick in brewing porters - very fine! When using the licorice root be sure to bruise it (beat the hell out of it with a hammer) to be sure the veins will be exposed to the beer. I believe I used 3-4" in a 5 gallon batch. Question about multiple head bottle fillers: Anybody got the scoop on a multi head filler? I've seen adds for some but I always tended to stay away from them because I thought they would cost too much. Then again, I always thought I would make my own but thats another story. - -- Jeff Miller Network Systems Corporation Internetwork Group 7600 Boone Avenue North jmiller at network.com Minneapolis MN 55428 (612)424-4888 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 08:50 EDT From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: Re: HD761 Quality HD761: no flames, two baitings and no 'M' word anywhere. BEAUTIFUL!!!!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 10:04 EDT From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: Natural Carbonation > From: Jeff McGowan <MCGOWAN at esb.com> > ..... how do commercial breweries which produce natrually carbonated beers > which are not bottle conditioned get the carbonation in the bottle? Do they > do part of the fermentation in a sealed container to carbonate the beer > before bottling, then bottle under pressure after filtering? This brings up an interesting point. Just what is meant by "naturally carbonated" in the commercial sense. I know of one case where a beer is touted as naturally carbonated simply because it is not mixed with deoxygenated and highly carbonated water on its way to the bottling line (a process employed by the big breweries). The fermented beer is cold-filtered and placed in cold storage where it is allowed to carbonate slowly under constant CO2 pressure. It is then bottled under pressure. This avoids having to filter carbonated beer under pressure which would create obvious problems. The Okanagan Spring Brewery in Vernon, British Columbia, Canada, bottles just like the average homebrewer .... yeast and all!!! Doesn't seem to stop the customers. I guess quality beer sells itself. ;-) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 9:08:35 CST From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Wrigley Red While I was in Boulder several months ago, I had Wrigley Red (several actually) at Old Chicago. They had it on tap and I found it quite good. They were advertising it as their house beer, "brewed especially for Old Chicago". Does anyone know where this beer is brewed and by whom? I got the impression that it was brewed in the Chicago area but I'm not sure. - -- Guy D. McConnell "...all I need is a pint a day..." ...uunet!ingr.com!b11!mspe5!guy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 10:26 EDT From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: The Color of Beer Help me with the colors of my beers. I know SRM is a measure of color--I've even read about it. But for the life of me I can't remember where, and I can't locate anything in any of my books, digests, or Zymurgys. (Of course, that doesn't mean it's not there--I just can find it by using the indices, tables of contents, and relatively detailed perusal.) So question number 1: What's SRM, how is it measured, etc.? Second: I'm trying to produce a beer about the color of Anchor Steam. The recipe I'm using only has light dried malt extract, a little bit of pale malt, and 2 cups of crystal malt, so it's primarily the crystal that's responsible for the color. I only have available to me 60 Lovibond crystal and 120 lovibond. Last time, I used all 60L and it was too light. I have since learned (from the most recent Zymurgy) that the color I'm shooting for is 11- 13 SRM (whatever the hell that means; see question number 1). So, question number 2 is: Assuming I only want to use 2 cups of crystal, how do I get 11- 13 SRM? Do I use all 120L or some combination of 60 and 120? What combination would that be? thanks, - --frank p.s. If you'd have told me that by batch #7 I would be worrying about esoteric things like the exact color of my beer, I'd have told you you were nuts. But, hey, I guess the learning curve's steep. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 10:37:14 EST From: neilm at juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Neil Mager) Subject: Re: Well water brewing > SEAN J CARON write: > I too have very hard well water, as well as a high degree of dissolved oxygen > which gives the water a pleasant but short lived effervescence ( i live just > outside of Saratoga, NY, famous for its horse racing and bubbly mineral water). > In addition to calcium carbonate, i have a large amount of dissolved iron and > other minerals ( not bacteria, thankfully!). For everyday use i have a > water-softener which strips most of this stuff out and replaces it with salt. I also have very hard well water. I do have a sediment filter for iron and other sediments which does an excellent job. I don't use any additives to the water to change the hardness. Also, I only boil about half the water. I fill the primary right out of the tap and have had no problems with bacteria in the beer. It works for me. If it ain't broke... On an non-brew related note: As far as the dissolved oxygen is concerned, I had a similiar effect, that turned out be be a hole in the diaphram of my pump tank. The tank is supposed to be pressurized at ~30psi. I discovered the hole when one of my neighbors noticed my pump cycling on and off alot and recommended checking the pressure in the tank. I pumped the tank up which caused my water to have short lived effervescence. A couple of well/pump companies told me this is typical of a bad tank. I had the tank replaceed and the effervescence went away and the pump cycled correctly. Do you neighbors have a similiar effervescence in their water? Neil Mager ==================================================== Internet <neilm at juliet.ll.mit.edu> Voice (617) 981-4803 MIT Lincoln Labs Lexington, MA Weather Radar - Group 43 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 07:27:42 From: kla!kirkish at Sun.COM (Steve Kirkish) Subject: Up Yoors Coors (A bumper sticker, not a flame) On my way into work the other morning I passed a big 'ol pick-up truck with the following bumper sticker on the back end: _______________________________________________ | UP YOORS COORS! | | Boycott Coors Non-Pasteurized Beer | ----------------------------------------------- I couldn't tell who sponsored the message (maybe "Friends of Louis Pasteur?") and I wondered why this guy preferred his beer roasted on an open fire or nuked or whatever is done to heat-pasteurize beer. I can just picture this guy making his own homebrew..."Hey, honey, how long am I supposed to leave the beer in the oven???" Which actually raises some questions: 1. Why would a beer be pasteurized? As a yeast-icide method? Won't heat affect the flavor of the beer? Is this why Coors "cold-filters"? 2. At what point in the process would a brewer pasteurize his beer? - -- Steve Kirkish, sun.com!kla!kirkish Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 11:00:38 EDT From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> Subject: Bottle color Norm Hardy writes: > The judges doing the pilsener category really slammed the entries with > green bottles. One judge wrote "green bottles are the kiss of death" on > one such entry. I think the bottle color affected their perception of the > beer. This is particularly sad/humorous since Pilsner Urquell (arguably the "Ur-pilsner") is bottled in green glass. One might argue that brown bottles are out of style for pilsner! Had a nice glass of Urquell at the Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild last night. The person who brought it had bought a whole, unopened case from a new shipment (so it was presumably as fresh as it would get). There was no hint of skunk at all. =Spencer W. Thomas HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109 spencer.thomas at med.umich.edu 313-747-2778 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 11:17:34 EST From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: The Beer Hunter on Discovery Channel On Mon, 11 Nov 91 9:52:34 PST, martin at daw_302.hf.intel.com (martin wilde) said: martin> It was mentioned in HBD #757 that the Michael Jackson series martin> "The Beer Hunter" will be shown on the Discovery Channel this martin> Fall. If someone finds out when this will be shown, could they martin> let us know??? My calendar has it on Discovery at 7:30pm, episode 1 starting Saturday November 23, then on successive nights until episode 5 on Wednesday. The information I saw was missing episode 6 -- I don't know if they're going to show it on Turkey Day or not... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 12:11 EDT From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: corriander and chile peppers Brian, noting the connection between cooking and homebrewing, asks about cuisines that use chiles, but not corriander, or vice versa: Yeah, you're right. A lot of homebrewers cook. I got started cooking first, and picked up homebrewing second. I'm pretty expert on Chinese, and ok on Indian and Thai. I can't comment on Mexican. You're correct, the three Asian cuisines use both chiles and cilantro (corriander). I think it's just an accident of geography. Also, keep in mind that Chinese is a very varied cuisine, and although cilantro is pretty widespread, chiles are used in any significant quantities only in Szechuan and Hunan cuisine, but very little or not at all in Cantonese, Fukienese, Tawainese, Shanghai, and Mandarin cuisines, although these latter types do make use of cilantro. In Indian and Thai, both chiles and cilantro are everywhere. The seeds, roots, and leaves are all used in Indian and Thai. In Chinese, it's primarily the leaves. Now, here's a cuisine (another one I'm fairly expert at) that uses chiles, but not cilantro: Cajun and Creole. Both Cajun and Creole use a lot of chile, primarily cayenne and tabasco peppers, but virtually no cilantro. Cilantro just isn't cultivated in Louisiana. I would also be tempted to say that real Southern Barbecue is a cuisine (yes, I would define it as a cuisine) that uses chiles, but not cilantro, but the importance of chiles in BBQ is arguable, so maybe this shouldn't count as an example. Ok, enough non-homebrewing talk. I'm taking it to email. - --frank (A homesick Cajun who cooks Chinese) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 12:57:17 -0500 (EST) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: primary in SS Is there any reason for not doing a primary ferment in a 10 gallon stainless brewpot? Cook, cool, and pitch right into the pot. Not much chance for "bad stuff" to get in. Granted you would not be able to rack off the trub. You'd also have to deal with the cover somehow, maybe cut a hole in it? I can see it maybe working for simple ales: quick single-stage ferment, bottle right from the brewpot. Comments? Russ G. OPAL/ESP UNH Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 14:03:36 -0500 From: Arun Welch <welch at cis.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Recipe for Tej? While in DC last week I went to an ethiopian restaurant where they had Tej, an ethiopian mead. It was *wonderful*. Does anyone have a recipe? ...arun Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #762, 11/18/91 ************************************* -------
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