---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Ads on HBD (Mike Sharp)
  Re: Draught Guinness in a Can (gkushmer)
  Chillers redux (Tom Dimock)
  Porters, Recent travels. etc... (Michael Zentner)
  Remove me from the HBD (RHEWETT)
  Remove me from the HBD (Bob Hewett)
  Blow off, blow out, blow by, blow up (Rob Malouf)
  Ales, Lagers, Beer (Norm Pyle)
  Trouble shooting bad beer... (Sean Conway)
  cats and garlic (was beer for the woods) (Carl West)
  I'm Back ("Rad Equipment")
  I'm Back                              Time:9:56 AM     Date:11/14/91
  Cardboard Nose (Bob Jones)
  Rathskeller in D.C. (not an ad) ("HEY MAN, FAH Q")
  STUFF (Jack Schmidling)
  Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer? (Jacob Galley)
  Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer?
  Wanted: Wheat Stout recipes (Rich Lenihan)
  London Inns (chuck)
  Re: chilling (Dr. Tanner Andrews)
  cadmium horror stories (Mark Sandrock)
  AHA Plug (wbt)
  All you homegrowers (Jonathan A. Rodin)
  Malt sources (Crawford.Wbst129)
  Stainless Steel Fermenters (Tom Dimock)
  licorice root, multiple bottle filler (Jeff J. Miller)
  Re: HD761 Quality (MIKE LIGAS)
  Natural Carbonation (MIKE LIGAS)
  Wrigley Red (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  The Color of Beer (Frank Tutzauer)
  Re: Well water brewing ( Neil Mager)
  Up Yoors Coors (A bumper sticker, not a flame) (Steve Kirkish)
  Bottle color ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Re: The Beer Hunter on Discovery Channel (Chris Shenton)
  corriander and chile peppers (Frank Tutzauer)
  primary in SS (Russ Gelinas)
  Recipe for Tej? (Arun Welch)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 8:52:35 EST
From: Mike Sharp <msharp at cs.ulowell.edu>
Subject: Re: Ads on HBD

Hi, before I too join the Jack/Commercialism thread, I thought it would
be good to actually post a few things about homebrewing so...

I need some help.  I need a bio-tech. type person in eastern MA/southern NH
to run some tests for me.  More specifically, I'd like someone to determine
the 'purity' of a number of cultures I have.  These are not common everyday
cultures, and cannot be easily replaced.  In fact, they're not even
Saccaromyces cultures.  To the best of my knowledge they are fairly
uncontaminated, but I would like that verified.  Further, if I'm wrong,
I'll need some isolation work done.  Finally, I'd like to have a few 
master tubes placed in an ultra-low temp freezer.  I am willing to
pay/barter for these services -- the reason I'm asking here is that
a fellow HBDer might not rake me over the coals as much.  Anyone
interested should send me e-mail for details.

(how about that, HBDs first Help-Wanted)

and something to add to the general discussion:

How does one place a false bottom inside a 15gal keg?  I've been
trying to figure this one out for a while.  I've come up with a
number of good techniques, but all of them involve welding inside
the keg.  I know that someone at the last AHA conference gave a
talk on building a 15gal keg-brewery, but I can't remember upon
what the false bottom reseted.  Does it fit snugly into that
lower reenforcing band with some feet for hold up the middle?  Does
it sit on the bottom weld in the very bottom of the keg?

and finally,
Al Korz writes
> Jack quotes Mike--
> >>FWIW, Jack pointed out that commericalism is OK on Internet so I thought
> >>I'd just add my $0.02.
> I don't think it's OK here.
> >Perhaps we should post information about this video on a regular basis.
> Perhaps not, Mike.
> I'd like to point out that Kinney Baughman is Mr. BrewCap, BrewHeat,
> and BrewChiller and has always (to the best of my recollection) been
> very non-commercial in his discussions of these products.

Yes, I've dealt with Kinney before, although he might not remember it.
I've had nothing but good experiences in dealing with him.

Anyway, on to my main point, are you trying to tell me that you missed
that *entire*line* of smilies in my original message?  Were you reading
the original through a sarcasim filter?  Actually, I agree with you about
98%.  Generally commercialism on HBD should be avoided, but I do believe
it should be ok to use it as a forum for selling surplus or old
equipment and the like NOT as a replacement for Zymurgy ads.  A while
back it was suggested that such announcements be limited to
something in the neighborhood of 5 lines.  I like that idea.

	-Mike

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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 9:15:08 EST
From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU
Subject: Re: Draught Guinness in a Can

Draught Guinnes in a can is not all that new.  They were coming out with it
a few years ago while I was still living in England (they used the theme
from Hawaii 5-0 to promote it.  That was a kick).  

Every time I go back, my ex-girlfriend's dad stocks the fridge with them.  I
just have to drink it out of courtesy, and he just feels obligated to 
finish off what I can't :-}.  

But seriously, it tastes pretty good and is worth a couple bucks to try
just once. Now that it's coming to the U.S., I'm hoping to do the same.

- --gk


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Date:         Thu, 14 Nov 91 09:32:00 EST
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Chillers redux


Some comments and a question or two on chillers.

I have been very interested in the relative merits of immersion
and counter-flow chillers, and thought it might be useful to
summarize some of that information as background to a few questions.

Speed of chilling:  It sounds like either type can chill a five
gallon batch in 15 to 20 minutes, the important distinction being
that with an immersion chiller this is a parallel process (each
little bit of wort takes the same time to cool) whereas the
counterflow chiller is a serial process (each little bit of wort
cools in a matter of seconds, but they have to wait their turn).
Also, with a counterflow chiller, the wort is protected from
oxidation and contamination during the entire time it is being
chilled (assuming the chiller is properly sanitized).
Here I would definitely give the advantage to counterflow.

Cold break:  If I understand correctly, this is a function of how
fast the drop in temperature happens. Advantage counterflow.

Ease of sanitizing:  The immersion cooler can be put in the boiler
for the last part of the boil.  The counter-flow must be either
pre-sanitized, or you can run some of the boil through before
turning on the chilled water (I don't think I'd trust this, myself).
Some folks have indicated a certain nervousness about how you make
sure that the inside of a copper pipe is really clean - it's really
hard to see in there! Advantage here goes to the immersion chiller.

Cost:  Depends a lot on your construction techniques and skill at
scrouging.  A counterflow chiller is more work to put together, and
involves more fittings, but it uses less copper tubing.  Immersion
chillers are both more available and cheaper from commercial sources.
Probable advantage: immersion.

Efficiency of water use:  Dead heat.  Both can recirculate water
if you live in a place where that's a problem.

Separation of wort from trub/cold break:  Here is where I have a
question or two.  The immersion chiller has no problem here - you
can whirlpool the cooled wort and then siphon off carefully, leaving
most of the trub and cold break behind.  With the counterflow
chiller, the trub can be left behind, but the cold break would seem
to end up in the primary.  So how do you counter-flowers out there
deal with the (very good) cold break?  Do you just ferment on top
of it, or do you use an intermediate vessel where you can whirlpool
and aerate and then rack to your primary?

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 09:57:48 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
Subject: Porters, Recent travels. etc...


First let me begin with with a few replies to recent posts.

Jack Schmidling writes:
> This evening I had the opportunity to check my taste buds against some
> experts at a meeting of the Chicago Beer Society.  Before I present their
> opinion of my oxidation experiment, a little background.....
>  ...
> It was a fun time and we met a lot of fine people and sampled a lot of beer.
> Marilyn liked everyone she tasted better than the last one.  I naturally
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> liked mine best.  In spite of this, I let her drive home.

Wow!  Who is this Marilyn and what does it take to get her to one of
our tastings!  This truly was a Bacchanalia in every sense of the word,
huh?  (Yes, I know what you meant..."every one" and not "everyone",
but couldn't resist the humour possible).

Seriously, though, about your post, I think it's great that you
actually tried this oxidation experiment.  I, too, have never noticed
the awful effects of oxidation when I know I screwed up somewhere and
splashed a lot.  However, I'd also have to ask about your experiments
concerning the storage conditions.  As we all know, certian reactions
(well most reactions) exhibit a temperature dependant rate.  Depending
on at what temperature these beers were stored, you may not notice any
effects.  Further, there are actually two problems with splashing, as I
understand it.  First, there is oxidation.  Again, as I understand it,
this is really only a concern while the wort is really hot.  Oxidation
is a chemical reaction.  Then, there is aerobic activity, which is
caused when yeast get exposed to oxygen while fermenting.  This is a
biochemical reaction.  How would one structure experiments in order to
isolate one effect from the other?  I don't know for sure about that,
but I think it would have been interesting if you'd actually abused 9
bottles, stored 3 batches of 3 at various temperatures, and opened one
from each batch of 3 over time.  You can't flame someone for noticing
oxygen effects if they're storing their beer at 85F and you have yours
in a cold room.


SECOND TOPIC : Gloaters...

I'd like to take an opportunity to thank all who suggested things to
do, beers to drink, etc... in my somewhat recent request for
information of Belgium and Germany.  Also, I guess, I'd like to gloat!

We spent 5 days in Belgium followed by about 10 days in Germany.
German beer is very good, for what it is, but is far less "interesting"
than the stuff in Belgium....ergo...reccommendation.  Go to Germany
first, then Belgium.  The beer highlight in Belgium had to be the
Kulminator.  For you gloaters paying $5 for Duvel at Weinkeller, I had
a 1985 Stille Nacht for less, and a 1980 Chimay Blue for $7.  This
place is absolutley fabulous for variety.  Also excellent were Liefmans
Goudenband and Rodenbach Grand Cru.  Of course there were several
others including Orval, several frambois'es, krieks, gueze's, etc...
Apparently there is a bit of controversy over a recent decision to
start filtering Duvel....in any case, the stuff I bought here had yeast
in it, the stuff over there did not.  One thing you notice for sure is
that something horrible often happens to this beer in transit when they
import it, because it all tasted better over there (and it wasn't just
atmosphere).

Germany was fun too.  We visited both Hofbrauhaus and Andechs.  The
four in our group thought the Hofbrauhaus was a lot of fun, but both
the beer and atmosphere at Andechs were better.  We also had the
opportunity to have real Budvar Budweiser on tap, which was quite good.
Someone here made mention of these brewery hotels in this forum.  We
stayed one day at Hirsch hotel/brewery in Ottobeuren.  Some of
the beer here was not good; however, both the light and dark spezial
made up for this.  Also, if anyone is going over there, or if the
person who's keeping the database of pubs/ etc...  wants to know about
it, we picked up a whole little booklet about brewery hotels all over
germany while we were there.  I wish I could actually list the beers we
tried, but they are far too numerous to even remember.  The best part
of German beer, or better stated, the part we enjoyed the most was
getting fresh Weizen and Dunkel Weizen, as that is what is most
difficult to come by in this part of the states.  One more
note...although this is a beer forum, if you're driving through the
wine regions and enjoy wine at all, don't miss a chance to taste some
wonderful wine and experience great atmosphere all for a reasonable
price.

Overall, we were able to bring back 27 assorted bottles of beer of
varying sizes and styles, much of which was bought at Maroun Markt -
the largest beer market in the world.  It's like going out and buying a
case of Bud here to go there and buy a case of Weizen.

FINAL TOPIC : Porters...

Another side advantage of the recent trip was that when I came home,
two batches of homebrew that were bottled before we left seemed to age
gracefully.  We had made a weizenbock and a porter.  The latter had me
worried upon initial tasting because I used a pound of black patent as
someone else did in the Winners Circle.  The initial tasting of this
beer indicated that there was far too much black patent.  Now, though,
either my taste buds are accustomed or this beer aged very nicely.  So
what I'm asking is how much dark grain do the rest of you porter lovers
use and what do you feel is the optimal "time in bottle"?

Mike Zentner    zentner at ecn.purdue.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 14:43 GMT
From: RHEWETT <RHEWETT+aBECHTEL%Bechtel_Corporation at mcimail.com>
Subject: Remove me from the HBD

To: LINK    --MCI
 
From: Bob Hewett
Subject: Remove me from the HBD
I need to be taken off the Home Brew Digest's Mailing list.
It seems that the HBD crashed their puny, out dated mailing system
so the Neo-Nazi E-MAIL people out in San Francisco read my mail
and decided that "The Home Brew Digest is clearly unrelated to Bechtel
business..".
 
Little do they realize that Home Brewing is one of things that allows
me to return to work everyday.  I think they need to relax and have a
Home Brew.
 
Once again:
 
******* PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE MAILING LIST. ******
 
They're threating to revoke my rights to the internet...
 
         Bob Hewett
- ---
"Freedom of speech.  Just watch what you say."  - Ice-T
 

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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1991 10:42 EDT
From: Rob Malouf <V103PDUZ at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Blow off, blow out, blow by, blow up

>An important point here is to do those things that you deem important 
>to improving your beer, given your own personal experiences.  My early 
>homebrews (pre-blow-off) suffered from a bitter astringency that I 
>found objectionable.  The first beer I tried using the blow-off method 
>didn't have it and I've never gone back. 

It is finally time to retire my old plastic fermenter, and I am trying to
decide whether to start using the blow-off method.  My first brews also
suffered from a bitter astringency (to say it was "objectionable" is an
understatement).  As my skill as a brewer increased, the harshness faded.  Now
that I have switched to all-grain brewing, there is no hint of that old
harshness left (so all the other flaws come through clearly!). I wonder if the
blow off method is like a long aging period for ales.  A month or so in the
basement greatly improved those old harsh ales, but now my brew is drinkable as
soon as it's carbonated.  Perhaps the blow-off method allows the beginner to
get away with not-so-great brewing technique.  Has anyone ever stopped using
the blow-off method once they became "expert" brewers?  Then again, maybe all
those early brews permanently desensitized my tongue, and I just don't notice
the astringency anymore.

Rob Malouf
v103pduz at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu

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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 08:31:41 MST
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Ales, Lagers, Beer

To Micah Millspaw:

I think most people in this forum know the difference between a lager yeast
and an ale yeast (and therefore the difference between a lager and an ale).
It is easy to stereotype, though, since most lagers running around (the US
anyway) are lighter recipes, and most ales (who are greatly outnumbered) tend
to be darker and more full-bodied.  The point is well-taken but has it really
been _that_ prevalent on the hbd?

To All:

With all of the microbreweries popping up around, does anyone know of a job
opening?  I'm thinking of maybe an apprentice taster position... 80)

Keep on Brewin'
Norm

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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 10:33:43 -0500
From: sean at evi.com (Sean Conway)
Subject: Trouble shooting bad beer...


I thought it would be useful to list some common problems of bad beer and 
what MOST LIKELY could be the reasons for why they turned bad.  None of these 
quotes are my own but come directly from Charlie Papazians' first edition 
of the "The Complete Joy of Home brewing" (my bible).

BTW: Bravo to "BAUGHMANKR"!!!

*******************************************************************************

All excerpts from TCJOHB by Papazian are in qoutes (just protecting myself. I
dont want to become another Joe Biden or the Joaquim ? from BU)...

CIDERY FLAVORS

        "The number one reason why homebrewers may brew a cidery flavor
         beer is that an excessive amount of corn sugar and especially
         cane (or beet) sugar is used."

SOUR FLAVORS

        "Bacterial infection often enhanced by warm brewery temperatures and
         sluggish fermentations are to blame for sour beer."

MOLDY BEER

        "Moldy beer is the result of inadequate cleaning of equipment and
         undue exposure to microorganisms. Mold also is more likely to develop
         with inaprpopiate lagering (aging) at temperatures above 60 degrees F
         (16 C)."

CLOUDY BEER

        "The problem is, again, another kind of bacterial infection. It isn't
         the fault of the malt nor the sugars, and unless you are using
         very old or contaminated yeast, it isn't the yeast's fault either."

FLAT BEER

        "I don't know of a reason unless you've left an excessive amount of
         sterilant in your bottles or you are storing your beer at
         excessively cool temperatures."

         My $ 0.02 cents worth - you forgot to add priming sugar... OR its
         the morning after the frat party and you are drinking the leftover
         beer out of the keg.

OVERCARBONATED BEER

        "The simple explanation is that you've added too much priming
         sugar."

STRANGE AFTERTASTES

        "If you've got'em, either leave those baby diapers out of the brew
         of keep the risk of bacterial infections to a minimum."

         A FAMOUS DADILY - he who brews with diapers may get bad beer.  Anyone
         want to try experiments

APPARENT PREMATURELY STUCK FERMENTION

        "More often than not you're worrying... Aeration of the wort and choice
         of yeasts will make some difference, but usually minimal.  Roll with
         the punch and bottle when fermentation has stopped or is neglible."

*******************************************************************************

Hope some people of there find this summary usefull!

sean at evi.com
        
         



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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 11:24:03 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: cats and garlic (was beer for the woods)


Somehow this got garbaged in #760, I'm trying again :-/

Russ suggested:
>...that brewer's yeast and garlic will keep
>away bugs, like mosquitos and black flies, and fleas too so give some to your 
>dog/cat. 

OK for dogs, but apparently it can be a very effective way to kill a cat. 
I have this from a veterinarian who has watched too many cats die in the 
arms of their owners after they had been `treated' at home with garlic. 
Apparently it does bad things to their blood (exactly what, I don't remember).

I know it doesn't have anything to do with beer, but I couldn't let it pass.
(we've got four cats at home and they're all very special to me)

Carl West

WISL,BM.

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Date: 14 Nov 91 09:56:06 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: I'm Back

Subject:  I'm Back                              Time:9:56 AM     Date:11/14/91
Hi all!  My LAN is back up and working so I can again communicate directly with
the Digest.  I apologize that my "lost" posts of 10/31 showed up today (11/14)
as they were stuck in my mail server's buffer and mailed when it was
re-established with the UC LAN.  Sorry for the redundancy and the increased
noise (esp. since one continues the Schmidling debates.  Jeanne Sova: I liked
your collection of quips and yes, this is a tough crowd, but a committed one as
well.  How about we all sit back and have a beer and give it a rest...).

Glad to have access once again, the CI$ connection is OK but nothing beats
"free" access via work.

RW...

       Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
 |~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
 |HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
 |__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1991 13:07 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Cardboard Nose

	Thought I'd pass on a recent experience with cardboard nose 
beers. I helped judge last week at the Calif. All State Homebrew 
Competition. This comp. is always well run and great fun. Lots of brew 
discussions, food, music and of course BEER. Great job again this 
year! The San Andreas Malts won the coveted homebrew club of the 
year award this year. They deserve it. When I got there I noticed they 
were using glasses for the judging samples instead of plastic cups. I 
was relieved to see Steve Norris busy rinsing that cardboard smell 
out of the glasses with a hot water rinse. Since Steve don't enter 
competitions anymore, they make him do the dishes. Anyway the first 
few beers we judged had a distinct cardboard (sometimes almond like) 
nose. I knew it couldn't be the glasses I saw them being rinsed and 
they smelled clean prior to pouring. I ran into this same thing at the 
Calif. State Fair comp. 2 years ago. If your sensitive to this smell, its 
like judging next to someone who is smoking. I got a plastic cup and 
we poured the next beer into a rinsed glass and the plastic cup, and 
the smell was only in the "rinsed" glass. I don't understand what is 
going on here but it ain't good for beer competitions. I stayed with the 
plastic cup for the rest of the judging, rinsing after each beer. Maybe 
the smells get released when the beer hits the glass do to the alcohol 
or ph or something. I think all competitions should switch to clear 
plastic cups to prevent this problem. What the hell their cheap.

Bob Jones


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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1991 18:03 EST
From: "HEY MAN, FAH Q" <HOPKINSCH at urvax.urich.edu>
Subject: Rathskeller in D.C. (not an ad)


	Fellow Brewers -

  I will be going home to Washington, DC for Thanksgiving Break and wanted
some input on international beers.  I'm going with a few friends to the
Rathskeller (a bar off Conn. Ave) that has thousands of beers from around
the world -- any input on some esoteric favorites?  Personally, I'm a 
Bass Ale/Guinness type.  I think my all-time favorite is the Augerstinerbrau
made in Munich (Maximator).  Yet, on a day-to-day basis, I admit, I usually
order a draft light beer for happy hour/etc (hey, I'm a college student; at
least it's not Milwaukee's Best).  Nonetheless, any suggestions of beers-to
 -try would be appreciated.

	Christopher
HOPKINSCH at URVAX.URICH.EDU

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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 14:37 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: STUFF

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 ------------------------------
 From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
 Subject: It's Flame Time!!
 
 >Flame on!!
 
 I have been advised by constructive critics that responding to the likes of 
 you may satisfy my ego but serves no useful purpose.
 
 Instead of responding to your hateful rubbish in public I will let this one 
 pass as a test of your sincerity.
 
 From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
 
 >Jack, as far as "you" are concerned your beer has never tasted like cider or
 cardboard.  These are flavors (along with many others found in beer) which
 different people have different sensitivities to.  This is why I suggest you
 have an independent palate, preferably one that has experience with homebrew,
 taste your experimental brew against your control batch.
 
 I did just that and posted the results yesterday.  But more to the point, 
 another beer that I have been calling clove-like, they declared, "banana".  
 It was instant and unanymous.  I was dumbfounded.  I have sniffed and tasted 
 it a hundred times since and still call it clove without the slighted hint of 
 banana.  Marylin, BTW now agrees with them.
 
 
js
~.

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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 19:00:56 CST
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer?

The Digest was down for Tuesday and Wednesday, right? I think that the
following message is responsible: The other time I quoted from Sir
Kenelm Digby, Kt. (without permission) was the LAST time the Digest
broke, back in September. Hmm.

                ---------------

Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu by midway.uchicago.edu Mon, 11 Nov 91 20:10:21 CST
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 91 20:10:17 CST
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: Sir Kenelm Digby, Kt. -- and ?Quinine Beer?
Message-Id: <CMM.0.90.2.689911817.gal2 at ellis.uchicago.edu>

Hi all. First, thanks for all the help with my little questions. My
Wyeast got going the very minute I sent my last panicky note. (All it
took was a little of that Preventitive Murphy's Law.) I got a good
deal on a carboy: $5 a pop at Bonne Sante in Hyde Park. They don't
have them very often though. Call ahead.

Now, another recipe from _The Closet of Sir Kenelme Digbie, Kt.
Opened_ (London: H. Brome, 1669) since the last one seemed quite
popular. This is from page 94. (Reproduced without permission,
naturally.)

A RECEIPT FOR METHEGLIN OF MY LADY WINDEBANKE
Take four Gallons of water; add to it, these Herbs and Spices
following. Pellitory of the Wall, Sage, Thyme, of each a quarter of a
handful, as much Clove gilly-flowers, with half as much Borage and
Bugloss flowers, a little Hyssop, Five or six Eringo-roots, three or
four Parsley-roots: one Fennel-root, the pith taken out, a few
Red-nettle-roots, and a little Harts-tongue. Boil these Roots and
Herbs half an hour; Then take out the Roots and Herbs, and put in the
Spices grosly beaten in a Canvass-bag, viz. Cloves, Mace, of each half
an Ounce, and as much Cinnamon, of Nutmeg an Ounce, with two Ounces of
Ginger, and a Gallon of Honey: boil all these together half an hour
longer, but do not skim it at all: let it boil in, and set it a
cooling after you have taken it off the fire. When it is cold, put six
spoonfuls of barm to it, and let it work twelve hours at least; then
Tun it, and put a little Limon-peel into it: and then you may bottle
it, if you please.

This one definitely sounds like Fun. Are there any opinions about why
one shouldn't skim this one? I don't see any source of yeast in here.
No clarifiers or eggdrometers either. If I can actually find all those
Roots and Herbs, I'll let you folks know how it turns out.

I have one other question (which I could probably do some research on
instead but I think there might be some interest in this here, maybe):

Has anybody out there heard of or seen, tasted or made beer with
quinine as an added flavoring? I really like drinking tonic water
straight, so this idea intrigues me. Maybe I'm weird, so what?

Here is the address to complain to:
             Jacob Galley, a full-time student with a part-time reality check
						     gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu

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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 19:36:49 EST
From: rich at bedford.progress.COM (Rich Lenihan)
Subject: Wanted: Wheat Stout recipes


Well, its been a week since I last asked for a wheat stout 
recipe.  The response has been underwhelming!  If anyone
has one or would like to suggest where I might find one,
please drop me a note.  I have one roughed out in my head
but I'd like to see what other brewers might have tried.
Incidentally, this will be an extract brew, but I'll convert
any all/partial-mash recipes I receive.  I'm more in interested
in the hops, adjuncts and procedures, anyway.  Thanks in
advance.

While I'm here, I'll add that I, too, agree  that a certain
HBD contributor has become "tiresome" (as have those who
rise to his bait).  Maybe if we all just ignore him, he'll
go away.  I love a good flame war as much as anyone but geez
guy, give it a rest, will ya?  Most of us can't read as fast
you can type.  This is my last word on *that* subject.

Let's get that S/N ratio back where it belongs!

Rich Lenihan                 UUCP: mit-eddie!progress!rich
Progress Software Corp.      Internet: rich at progress.com
14 Oak Park                   Real life:  20-I Brandywine Drive
Bedford, MA  01730                       Shrewsbury, MA 01545
USA                                      (508) 754-7502
"Beer is a mellow drink, but it keeps you on the run..." 
                                      - The Bartender's Bounce

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Date: Thu Nov 14 23:15:32 1991
From: synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: London Inns

Warning: this isn't exactly homebrewing, but it's related...

Does anyone have a copy of the CAMRA guide to Inns?  I'm not sure of the exact 
title, but I've seen it mentioned in the Good Beer Guide.  I'm looking for 
recommendations for a place to stay in London with an excellent pub on 
premises.  

Traveler's Tip: you can drink later in a pub if you are a 'resident' of the 
attached inn.  

So this message isn't a total waste of bandwidth, let me recommend the 
following inn: 

Traquair Arms, Innerleithen, Scotland.  The name says it all.  Bear Ale on 
draft, and Traquair House Ale in bottles (try a mixture).  Decent restaurant.  
The castle is just outside of town.  If you visit the brewery, say 'hi' to 
Ian.  

- -----
Chuck Cox
SynchroSystems
chuck%synchro at uunet.uu.net


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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 91 7:02:14 EST
From: Dr. Tanner Andrews <tanner at ki4pv.compu.com>
Subject: Re: chilling

) ...after five batches, however, they could start thinking
) about a wort chiller...
And maybe not.  After 80 batches, I'm still just  thinking  about
the  chiller.  I'm actually just dropping the pot in the pool and
letting the heat dissipate  harmlessly  into  20,000  gallons  of
(seasonally cold) water.

If I get the chiller, I'm going to get one of those drill-powered
pumps  and  use  it  to  just  circulate  pool water or ice water
through a set of coils.  With either source, the output  will  go
into the pool; that way I won't waste water.
- -- 
 ...!{bikini.cis.ufl.edu allegra uunet!cdin-1}!ki4pv!tanner


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 4:32:07 CST
From: Mark Sandrock <sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: cadmium horror stories

> From: steve at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov
> 
> The warning about cadmium is definately a good one, and bringing it up is
> hardly beating a dead horse. I'd hate to see what sort of horror stories 
> the press could come up with about people getting cadmium poisioning as a 
> result of drinking, or making, homebrewed beer and/or brewing equipment. 

I recall reading a story some years back about a family who received
cadmium poisoning by using refrigerator shelves as barbecue grills!!
Apparently the metallic coating on the shelves contained cadmium, which
was absorbed into the food as it cooked. Don't remember any other details,
but ever since I've avoided placing raw food, such as fruits or veggies,
directly on the refrigerator shelf just in case.

Can anyone comment about this?  It's a bit off the subject, but surely
worth any enlightenment possible due to the seriousness of the effects.
All I can say is that whoever decided to use cadmium in a product such
as refrigerator shelving has to be criminally stupid, imo. Not that the
person who decided to use them for grilling was being real smart either.

I don't know if cadmium is still used this way, but I surely hope not!!

Mark Sandrock

- -- 
UIUC Chemical Sciences Computer Center
505 S. Matthews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801
Voice:  217-244-0561
Internet:  sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu

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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 7:42:15 EST
From: wbt at cbema.att.com
Subject: AHA Plug


> From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
>  From: wbt at cbema.att.com
>  
>  >I have just one question.  In your video, do you include a plug for the
>  AHA?
>  
>  I listed in the credits, anyone and everyone who was of any help in producing
>  the video.  I received no help nor request for any such "plug" from AHA.  As 
>  I am in no way affilliated with AHA, I am curious to know why you asked the 
>  question.

I'd think that with your stated goal of helping bring newcomers into the
homebrewing hobby you would naturally want to tell them how to get in touch
with the AHA.  It is, after all, the largest homebrewing association in
America, if not the world, not to mention a tremendous source of useful
information.  Even if you don't care to join the organization yourself, it
would seem sensible to at least inform your viewers of its existence.

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker	AT&T Network Systems - Columbus      wbt at cbnews.att.com


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 08:02:36 -0500
From: rodin at ftp.com (Jonathan A. Rodin)
Subject: All you homegrowers

> > Is there an easy process to determine the alpha acid content of homegrown
> > hops?  If there isn't an easy process, what's the difficult process?
> 
> It depends on what you call easy.  It's essentially impossible for the
> homebrewer to get at the kind of sophisticated lab equipment that's
> required for an AA test. 

OK, if it is impossible for homegrowers to determine the AA content of your 
hops, how do you figure out how much of your hops to use?  Many recipes call
for x amount of bittering units.  Do you just guess?

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Rodin		ftp Software, Inc.		voice: (617) 224-6261
rodin at ftp.com		26 Princess Street		fax:   (617) 245-7943
	     		Wakefield, MA  01880


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Date: 	Fri, 15 Nov 1991 05:49:22 PST
From: Crawford.Wbst129 at xerox.com
Subject: Malt sources


I noticed that George Fix has mentioned Ireks Pilsner malt a couple of times
(in this forum and in Zymurgy) as high quality.  Does anybody know where I can
get some Ireks?  Also, some of the winning recipes in Zymurgy use some
different malts like Scots and Brown malt.  Does anybody have a source with a
good selection of malts?  I'd like to see just what is available.

Thanks,

Greg

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Date:         Fri, 15 Nov 91 08:44:48 EST
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Stainless Steel Fermenters

Alan Gerhardt asks about modified keg fermenters..

Although I am not fermenting in stainless, my approach would be to just
remove the tapping core, and then work through the fitting opening the
same way as I now use carboys.  Do you cut out the tops of your carboys
to get your arm in for cleaning?  Just kidding..   :-)

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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 8:12:41 CST
From: jmiller at anubis.network.com (Jeff J. Miller)
Subject: licorice root, multiple bottle filler

Re: Pauls suggestions for licorice root:

I have used both licorice root and stick in brewing porters - very fine!
When using the licorice root be sure to bruise it (beat the hell out of
it with a hammer) to be sure the veins will be exposed to the beer. I
believe I used 3-4" in a 5 gallon batch.

Question about multiple head bottle fillers:

Anybody got the scoop on a multi head filler?  I've seen adds for some
but I always tended to stay away from them because I thought they would
cost too much.  Then again, I always thought I would make my own but thats
another story.

- -- 
Jeff Miller                 Network Systems Corporation
Internetwork Group          7600 Boone Avenue North
jmiller at network.com         Minneapolis MN 55428   (612)424-4888

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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 08:50 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Re: HD761 Quality

HD761:  no flames, two baitings and no 'M' word anywhere.  BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!

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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 10:04 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Natural Carbonation

> From: Jeff McGowan <MCGOWAN at esb.com>
> ..... how do commercial breweries which produce natrually carbonated beers
> which are not bottle conditioned get the carbonation in the bottle? Do they
> do part of the fermentation in a sealed container to carbonate the beer
> before bottling, then bottle under pressure after filtering?

This brings up an interesting point. Just what is meant by "naturally
carbonated" in the commercial sense. I know of one case where a beer is touted
as naturally carbonated simply because it is not mixed with deoxygenated and
highly carbonated water on its way to the bottling line (a process employed by
the big breweries). The fermented beer is cold-filtered and placed in cold
storage where it is allowed to carbonate slowly under constant CO2 pressure. It
is then bottled under pressure. This avoids having to filter carbonated beer
under pressure which would create obvious problems.

The Okanagan Spring Brewery in Vernon, British Columbia, Canada, bottles just
like the average homebrewer .... yeast and all!!! Doesn't seem to stop the
customers. I guess quality beer sells itself. ;-)


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 9:08:35 CST
From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Wrigley Red

    While I was in Boulder several months ago, I had Wrigley Red (several
actually) at Old Chicago.  They had it on tap and I found it quite good.  They
were advertising it as their house beer, "brewed especially for Old Chicago".
Does anyone know where this beer is brewed and by whom?  I got the impression
that it was brewed in the Chicago area but I'm not sure.
- -- 

Guy D. McConnell                   "...all I need is a pint a day..."
 ...uunet!ingr.com!b11!mspe5!guy



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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 10:26 EDT
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: The Color of Beer

Help me with the colors of my beers.  I know SRM is a measure of color--I've
even read about it.  But for the life of me I can't remember where, and I
can't locate anything in any of my books, digests, or Zymurgys.  (Of course,
that doesn't mean it's not there--I just can find it by using the indices,
tables of contents, and relatively detailed perusal.)  So question number 1: 
What's SRM, how is it measured, etc.?

Second:  I'm trying to produce a beer about the color of Anchor Steam.  The
recipe I'm using only has light dried malt extract, a little bit of pale malt,
and 2 cups of crystal malt, so it's primarily the crystal that's responsible
for the color.  I only have available to me 60 Lovibond crystal and 120
lovibond.  Last time, I used all 60L and it was too light.  I have since
learned (from the most recent Zymurgy) that the color I'm shooting for is 11-
13 SRM (whatever the hell that means; see question number 1).  So, question
number 2 is:  Assuming I only want to use 2 cups of crystal, how do I get 11-
13 SRM?  Do I use all 120L or some combination of 60 and 120?  What
combination would that be?

thanks,
- --frank

p.s.  If you'd have told me that by batch #7 I would be worrying about
esoteric things like the exact color of my beer, I'd have told you you were
nuts.  But, hey, I guess the learning curve's steep.

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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 10:37:14 EST
From: neilm at juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Neil Mager)
Subject: Re: Well water brewing




> SEAN J CARON write:
> I too have very hard well water, as well as a high degree of dissolved oxygen
> which gives the water a pleasant but short lived effervescence ( i live just 
> outside of Saratoga, NY, famous for its horse racing and bubbly mineral water).
> In addition to calcium carbonate, i have a large amount of dissolved iron and
> other minerals ( not bacteria, thankfully!). For everyday use i have a
> water-softener which strips most of this stuff out and replaces it with salt.


    I also have very hard well water. I do have a sediment filter
    for iron and other sediments which does an excellent job.
    I don't use any additives to the water to change the hardness.
    Also, I only boil about half the water. I fill the primary right out
    of the tap and have had no problems with bacteria in the beer. 
    It works for me. If it ain't broke...


    On an non-brew related note:

    As far as the dissolved oxygen is concerned, I had a similiar
    effect, that turned out be be a hole in the diaphram of my pump 
    tank. The tank is supposed to be pressurized  at  ~30psi. I discovered
    the hole when one of my neighbors noticed my pump cycling on and
    off alot and recommended checking the pressure in the tank.
    I pumped the tank up which caused my water to have short lived
    effervescence. A couple of well/pump companies told me this is
    typical of a bad tank. I had the tank replaceed and the effervescence
    went away and the pump cycled correctly. 

    Do you neighbors have a similiar effervescence in their water?


        Neil Mager

====================================================
Internet                    <neilm at juliet.ll.mit.edu>
Voice                       (617) 981-4803
MIT Lincoln Labs            Lexington, MA
  Weather Radar - Group 43




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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 07:27:42
From: kla!kirkish at Sun.COM (Steve Kirkish)
Subject: Up Yoors Coors (A bumper sticker, not a flame)

On my way into work the other morning I passed a big 'ol pick-up truck with
the following bumper sticker on the back end:
            _______________________________________________
            |               UP YOORS COORS!               |
            |   Boycott Coors        Non-Pasteurized Beer | 
            -----------------------------------------------
I couldn't tell who sponsored the message (maybe "Friends of Louis
Pasteur?") and I wondered why this guy preferred his beer roasted on an open
fire or nuked or whatever is done to heat-pasteurize beer.  I can just
picture this guy making his own homebrew..."Hey, honey, how long am I
supposed to leave the beer in the oven???" 

Which actually raises some questions:
    1. Why would a beer be pasteurized?  As a yeast-icide method?  Won't
       heat affect the flavor of the beer?  Is this why Coors "cold-filters"?
    2. At what point in the process would a brewer pasteurize his beer?

- -- Steve Kirkish, sun.com!kla!kirkish


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 11:00:38 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Bottle color

Norm Hardy writes:
> The judges doing the pilsener category really slammed the entries with
> green bottles.  One judge wrote "green bottles are the kiss of death" on
> one such entry.  I think the bottle color affected their perception of the
> beer.  

This is particularly sad/humorous since Pilsner Urquell (arguably the
"Ur-pilsner") is bottled in green glass.  One might argue that brown
bottles are out of style for pilsner!

Had a nice glass of Urquell at the Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild last
night.  The person who brought it had bought a whole, unopened case
from a new shipment (so it was presumably as fresh as it would get). 
There was no hint of skunk at all.

=Spencer W. Thomas 		HSITN, U of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
spencer.thomas at med.umich.edu	313-747-2778


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 11:17:34 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: The Beer Hunter on Discovery Channel

On Mon, 11 Nov 91 9:52:34 PST, martin at daw_302.hf.intel.com (martin wilde) said:

martin> It was mentioned in HBD #757 that the Michael Jackson series 
martin> "The Beer Hunter" will be shown on the Discovery Channel this
martin> Fall.  If someone finds out when this will be shown, could they
martin> let us know???

My calendar has it on Discovery at 7:30pm, episode 1 starting Saturday
November 23, then on successive nights until episode 5 on Wednesday.  The
information I saw was missing episode 6 -- I don't know if they're going to
show it on Turkey Day or not...

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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 12:11 EDT
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: corriander and chile peppers

Brian, noting the connection between cooking and homebrewing, asks about
cuisines that use chiles, but not corriander, or vice versa:

Yeah, you're right.  A lot of homebrewers cook.  I got started cooking first,
and picked up homebrewing second.  I'm pretty expert on Chinese, and ok on
Indian and Thai.  I can't comment on Mexican.  You're correct, the three Asian
cuisines use both chiles and cilantro (corriander).  I think it's just an
accident of geography.  Also, keep in mind that Chinese is a very varied
cuisine, and although cilantro is pretty widespread, chiles are used in any
significant quantities only in Szechuan and Hunan cuisine, but very little or
not at all in Cantonese, Fukienese, Tawainese, Shanghai, and Mandarin
cuisines, although these latter types do make use of cilantro.  In Indian and
Thai, both chiles and cilantro are everywhere.  The seeds, roots, and leaves
are all used in Indian and Thai.  In Chinese, it's primarily the leaves.

Now, here's a cuisine (another one I'm fairly expert at) that uses chiles, but
not cilantro:  Cajun and Creole.  Both Cajun and Creole use a lot of chile,
primarily cayenne and tabasco peppers, but virtually no cilantro.  Cilantro
just isn't cultivated in Louisiana.

I would also be tempted to say that real Southern Barbecue is a cuisine (yes,
I would define it as a cuisine) that uses chiles, but not cilantro, but the
importance of chiles in BBQ is arguable, so maybe this shouldn't count as an
example.

Ok, enough non-homebrewing talk.  I'm taking it to email.

- --frank
(A homesick Cajun who cooks Chinese)

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Date:    Fri, 15 Nov 1991 12:57:17 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: primary in SS

  Is there any reason for not doing a primary ferment in a 10 gallon stainless
brewpot?  Cook, cool, and pitch right into the pot.  Not much chance for "bad
stuff" to get in.  Granted you would not be able to rack off the trub.  You'd 
also have to deal with the cover somehow, maybe cut a hole in it?  I can see
it maybe working for simple ales: quick single-stage ferment, bottle right 
from the brewpot.  Comments?

Russ G.
OPAL/ESP
UNH

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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 14:03:36 -0500
From: Arun Welch <welch at cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Recipe for Tej?

While in DC last week I went to an ethiopian restaurant where they had
Tej, an ethiopian mead.  It was *wonderful*.  Does anyone have a recipe?

 ...arun



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #762, 11/18/91
*************************************
-------

---