---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: SS Fermenters (Robert A. Gorman)
  YAY!, Wyeast Irish ale bottle attenuation (krweiss)
  root beer anyone ("Rob Schultz --- 7822 --- 225.4 Thorvaldson")
  Re: Zip City and NJ Homebrewing (boubez)
  Help: making beer more bitter at bottling. (Alexander R Mitchell)
  leigh-williams liquid bittering hops (card)
  SS Fermenters (G.J. Fix)
  Digby's Metheglin (Carl West)
  Fruit Beer (Bob Jones)
  Re: Lonon Inns (chuck)
  Chillers, Papazian Trouble Shooting. (Jay Hersh)
  Old Carboy, new problems (Part II) (gkushmer)
  Plastic Cups (Jay Hersh)
  SS fermenters-yet again (George Fix)
  Hop AA content (Jay Hersh)
  Pilsener Urquell & Bottle Color (Jay Hersh)
  Re: Wrigley Red (David Resch)
  RE's: Chillers redux, Porters, The Color, Up Yoors. (MIKE LIGAS)
  Pitching Rates and Aeration (Richard Stueven)
  Re: Wrigley Red (Jason Goldman)
  poor brewing method? (milton)
  Bakers Malt Extract? (Grant Basham)
  Plastic cups (korz)
  BEERBEERBEERBEERBEER ("rpierce.US")
  chillers (Keith Winter)
  Mash Tun False Bottoms (Bob Jones)
  re dry vs wet yeasts (Chip Hitchcock)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 13:06:34 EST
From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET (Robert A. Gorman)
Subject: Re: SS Fermenters

Following the Stainless Steel thread:

In HBD 749 Jim White writes:

> I happen to have a unique 6 gal. Stainless Steel container ...
> I observe the following advantages..
> 
>  - Moving it , esp. when full, doesn't risk death or dismemberment from
>   falling upon (or under) foot long, razor sharp shards of glass.

YES, YES, YES, Glass carboys are an evil thing!

>  - It's easy to clean.
>  - It doesn't scratch like plastic.
>  - Doesn't soften, crack, or break when hot wort is poured into it.
>
> Doesn't anyone else use a SS fermentation vessel?

I've been fermenting in SS for about a year now and absolutely love it.
I use the standard 3 and 5 gallon cornelius soda kegs.   These have all
the aforementioned advantages in addition to;

    1) Convenience in racking, as George Fix followed up on.
    2) You can force carbonate your beer in them.
    3) The beer is ready to serve from the keg when conditioning is complete.
    4) They are endlessly durable.
    5) They don't explode or produce beer volcanos.


In HBD 758 George Fix adds;

> My interest in half kegs stemmed from the following:
>  
>    1.Geometry- In the late 1940's deClerck studied fermenter shapes and ...
> 
>    2.Kegging- Much has been written in Zymurgy and elsewhere about the value
> of closed systems of transfer, where beer is pushed from one vessel to another
> by CO2 pressure.  This can be done with half kegs ...

Your use of 1/4 bbl beer kegs has peeked my interest.  As is obvious I think
highly of stainless steel and the use of standard beer kegs as fermenters is
something I would like to pursue, at least in theory if not in practice.
Questions:  

    1) What type of beer kegs are you using; Sanke, Golden Gate, Dual Probe?
    2) How do you handle the racking of beer?  Do you use a simple racking
       tube, or some kind of closed transfer system based on the kegs
       original design?

> ... particularly if Cornelius or Firestone soda pop kegs are used for beer
> storage. ... The first part of the flow out of the fermenter will come from
> the top of the yeast sediment. ... This should be discarded until a clear
> flow is evident.

Another method which I've described before (as well as others) is to
shorten the liquid dip tube.  I have mine shortened 1 inch.  This is
a fairly good average.  Sometimes it leaves a little beer behind, but
zero sediment is picked up.  Other times I have to discard the first
cup when trub and/or yeast levels are high.

I've just ordered an extra dip tube and I'm planning on cutting it at
1/2 inch.  This I will use when racking beers from a secondary
fermentation/settling tank to it's final serving keg.

One thing I have noticed when the level of trub/yeast is higher then
bottom of the dip tube is; not only is the first cup of beer transferred
laden with sediment, but the last cup is as well.  Thus I recommend the
use of a dip tube which is above the level of sediment when possible.


George continues:

> There is alas a downside to stainless. First, stainless generally means "less
> stain" and not "no stain". Chlorine is very aggressive to metal if left in 
> contact for a sufficient length of time. Sterilizing with boiling water having
> a high iron content can have the same effect. ...

This I did not know about.  I frequently use boiling water to sterilize
my kegs.  I consider the use of boiling water to be another advantage to
the use of stainless steel.  I did not know that this could be harmful to
them.  I'll have to pull out a flashlight and examine the insides of my kegs
for rust spots.

> An alternative sanitizer that is finding widespread acceptance for stainless
> is iodophor (1.75% iodine, 18.75% phosphoric acid). ...

What about "B-Brite"?  Although I can't remember what chemicals are used in
it, the label does have them listed.  Do you know of any downside to using
this product?

When I want to give my kegs a good cleaning I disassemble the connectors and
lid parts, fill the keg with a B-Brite solution and then place all of the
parts inside.  This I let sit for about 15 to 20 minutes, while bringing two
gallons of water to a boil.  After rinsing off the B-Brite and reassembling
the keg I then proceed with the boiling water treatment.  This is what I
typically do in preparing a primary fermenter.

And there is another downside to stainless steel; you don't get to watch
the furry of the primary ferment as the yeast goes to town.  Purely an 
aesthetics issue though.

- -- Bob Gorman            bob at rsi.com           uunet!semantic!bob --
- -- We have found heaven, for we have found Helle.                 --


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 11:11:08 -0800
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: YAY!, Wyeast Irish ale bottle attenuation

First, I'd like to sound a loud cheer! HBD 761 was the first one in weeks
that contained almost nothing that I had to page through without reading.
Ahh, sweet normalcy. I still find it hard to believe that the writings from
George Fix and some of the other stuff that's been posted here lately were
from the same digest. Hell, it's hard to believe they originated from
members of the same species.

I'd like to get some opinions from people with experience with Wyeast Irish
Ale (stout) yeast. I made a total of four batches in a row with this yeast
- -- high gravity, highly hopped beers. I was aiming for a very full bodied
beer, with the residual sweetness cut by a high hopping rate. From a flavor
aspect, I got what I was after. However, all four batches refused to
carbonate to any significant degree, even after I went to a full cup of
corn sugar for priming. As soon as I switched yeast to the American Ale
(Sierra Nevada?), I was able to drop back to my usual 1/2 cup of priming
sugar.

Has anyone else found that the Irish Ale yeast is a very sluggish performer
in the bottle?

Oh yeah, to Jeanne Sova, Red Tail Ale is great. It's in the general Sierra
Nevada family, but if my addled memory serves, it has more body, and the
balance is shifted towards malt and away from hops. It's still a highly
hopped beer, just less so than SNPA. I dunno about shelf life. Skunks???
Who brews with skunks?? Don't they clog the blow-off tube? :-)

- -------------------------------------------
Ken Weiss               krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Computing Services      916/752-5554
U.C. Davis              916/752-9154 (fax)
Davis, CA 95616


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 13:32 CST
From: "Rob Schultz --- 7822 --- 225.4 Thorvaldson" <SCHULTZ at admin1.usask.ca>
Subject: root beer anyone

	I have read several articles in the group regarding root beer, I have
even responded to some of these asking for recipes, but no answers. Could
someone out there send me a recipe for good ole 'Root Beer'?


Robert Schultz.
 ....from the great white north...

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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 14:44:52 EST
From: boubez at bach.RUTGERS.EDU
Subject: Re: Zip City and NJ Homebrewing


Geoff Woods writes:

<There is also some judge in Cape May, who owns the Queen Victoria Bed &
<Breakfast (this place is beautiful) and wants to take on the noble cause
<of making brewpubs legal in NJ. I hope he can do it because we are down 
<to just 2 brewers in NJ - Anheuser-Busch in Newark and Clements in
<Vernon.

I didn't know brewpubs were illegal in NJ. It seems to me that the Old Bay
Restaurant and pub in New Brunswick brews their own, along with offering
some other draft choices. Unless they don't qualify for the brewpub
definition by some legal trick. Another bar in New Brunswick (J August)
also used to offer locally brewed stuff, but that was 1-2 years ago (I
don't think they still do).

toufic

            R 2 4      Toufic Boubez
            |_|_|      boubez at caip.rutgers.edu
            | | |      Computational Engineering Systems Lab
            1 3 5      CAIP Center, Rutgers University

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Date:         Fri, 15 Nov 91  14:57:43 EST
From: Alexander R Mitchell <ARMITC01%ULKYVM.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Help: making beer more bitter at bottling.

What is the best way to increase hop bitterness at bottling time? Can I boil
whole hops with the priming sugar for an hour, strain, and add to the priming
bucket? When trying a new recipe or new brand of extract I can't know in
advance how much boiling/bittering hops to use to achieve the bitterness I
like. I would appreciate any advice/suggestions.


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 14:29:58 EST 
From: card at apollo.hp.com
Subject: leigh-williams liquid bittering hops



Has anyone out there used  leigh-williams liquid bittering hops?
It comes in a (~2oz) container, with instructions to add for bittering 
immediately after racking to secondary. 

I recently was a bit nervous (not worried mind you) that my recent heavy 
ale attempt might not have enough bittering hops - It's now in the primary. 
My plan was to taste it before kegging and if needed just add a bottle, 
after boiling in a pint of water, to the cornelius keg.  

Any experiences out there? 

/Mal 

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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 16:31:02 CST
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)


Subject: SS Fermenters (G.J. Fix)

I have had a number of e-mail messages asking for more details
concerning how half kegs (sometimes called pony kegs) can be used
as fermenters. The following are some additional remarks.

All major commercial brewers use the kegs for draft beer. Each
has a slightly different shape, but all are essentially the same.
In particular, all use the same disconnect, and this can be obtained
at a draft beer outlet along with the keg. The kegs used by Millers 
have rubber insulation around their outside which is an extra bonus.

To break into the keg for the first time one does the following:

  1. Attach the disconnect to the keg outlet at the top. Move the
  rod on the disconnect to the open position and let the foul stuff
  escape. You may want to attach a hose to the beer port on the
  disconnect before doing this.

  2. Remove the disconnect. Then use a screw driver to remove the 
  SS ring in the outlet. This may take some practice, but you will 
  quickly learn how to do this in minutes. There is a tool for this,
  but it is expensive ($75-$80), and is not needed.

  3. Once the ring is removed, the SS tube in the outlet can be lifted
  out. This leaves an empty keg with a 2" diameter hole in its top.

For fermentation, an appropriate rubber stopper can be added to the mouth
of the outlet, and this can be used to mount an airlock or blowout tube.
Welding or other modifications of the keg is not needed. The stopper should
be replaced with the SS tube near the end of the fermentation.

For transfer one does the following:

  1. Seal the tank by adding the SS ring. You will need some pliers for this.
  As above, with a little practice you will be able to do this in minutes.

  2. Attach the disconnect to the fermenter.

  3. Attach a hose from a CO2 supply to the gas port on the disconnect. Attach
  another hose to the beer port.

  4. Turn on the CO2 supply and then move the rod on the disconnect to the
  open position. When a clear flow is obtained, it should be stopped and the
  beer line hose attached to a disconnect on the receiving tank. ( Cornelius
  or Firestone kegs are ideal for the latter.)  Move the rod on the disconnect
  back to the open position, and the receiving tank will start to fill. 

Other thoughts:
  1. The CO2 supply should have a regulator attached. Only 10-12 psi is needed
  to induce the transfer.
  
  2. Don't forget to purge the receiving tank with CO2 before transfer. 

  3. There will be some yeast carry over to storage, but this is desirable.
  They will keep the beer "alive" during storage. There should also be ample
  yeast left in the fermenter for collection and repitching if that is desired.

  4. Don't forget to vent all CO2 out of the keg before you attempt to reopen 
  it.
 
Iodophors can be obtained from Diversity Chemical. Call 313-281-0930 to get
the name of a local distributor. Tell the latter you are doing small scale
pilot brewing for possible commercial application at some point in the future,
and would to test their product. They will then sell it to you a gallon at a
time which is practical for us, as opposed to a drum which is not.

P.S. John> Soapy flavors generally come from fatty acids produced during
fermentation. Normally they will be reduced to well below their flavor
threshold by the end of the fermentation. If detectable, and soapy is an 
excellent desciptor for these constituents, then this is a good sign of
disfuctional yeast or yeast approaching this state.


 


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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 91 17:47:07 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Digby's Metheglin

There is a source of yeast in the recipe, the barm.
It's the krausen from some other batch.

I wonder if this is related to describing someone as `barmy', 
meaning maybe `froth-head' or maybe affected by beer? Brits?

Carl West

WISL,BM.






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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1991 15:34 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Fruit Beer




    I've noticed a lot of discussion about fruit beers and meads. There
  are many ways to use fruit in beer but only a few are very efficient.
    My experience with the use of fruit in beer comes from doing recipe
  formulation for the commercial beer industry. Effectiveness and cost
  are important factors when you have to sell your product.
    The type of yeast to use is not as critical in fruit beers as in
  other styles. This is because the fruit flavours and aromas tend to
  mask most primary yeast characteristics. The main thing to consider
  is the attenuative nature of the yeast that you choose. Leaving some
  residual sugars can enhance the effect of most fruits. Both lager and ale
  yeasts work well. I recommend against wine yeasts as they tend to fe-
  -rment out to well,making a too dry beer.
    Next, to the subject of fruits. Your selection of fruit to use in
  beers is very crucial as some types much easier to use than others.
  Most berries and stone fruits are easy to work with. The seed fruits
  such as apples, pears, oranges and the like are pulpy and difficult
  to prepare,I do not recommend them for beginning fruit beer brewers.
    When selecting a fruit flavour keep in mind what is in season and
  what is available in concentrate form. Concentrates are much easier
  to use than whole fresh or frozen fruit. Fruit concentrates can be
  purchased at winemaking supply shops in a variety of flavours. Conce-
  -ntrates work best when added directly to the fermenter. Whole fruits
  should be crushed or liquified. These may be added as is to the
  fermenter or they can be pasteurized if you feel that it is nessesary
  to your mental well being. The majority of wild microflora found on
  fruit do not compete well in the fermentation enviroment. Always
  wash the fruit thourghly before using. It is safist to add the fruit
  2-3 days into the ferment to insure your yeast has the upper hand.
    Fruit may be pastuerized by plasing it in a pan and heating to 160F
  you must stir constantly sticking or jelling. Hold at 160F for ten
  minites then cover and cool by immersion. When cool add to fermenter.
   Haze in the beer from the fruit can be reduced by racking to a third
  vessel(or the second back to a cleaned first),use of anti-pectic
  enzyme (brand name PECTINOL available from home wine making shops),
  and if you using a kegging set up,sub-micron filtration or all of the
  above.
    As to a base beer any thing you want can be made to work, and will
  taste great(maybe?). If your goal is to make a beer whose primary fea-
  ture is a fruit flavour/bouquet the base beer needs to be nonassertive.
  (cherry stouts are great but they are still mostly stouts, OK) Use of
  crystal and dextrin malts in the base beer will help retain some body.
  The fruits tend to thin out a beer and the unfermentables can balance
  it out. Hopping levels should be kept low so as not to mask the fruit.
    If it is possible to find fruit essences in the flavour your using
  these will greatly enhance the bouquet and flavour profile of your beer.
  The essence should be added at the time of bottling or kegging. If you
  plan to filter you beer and the essence afterwards as it is possible to
  filter it out.
    I hope this information is of use to some of you, if you more specific
  questions post them or email to Bob Jones, I'll get them. And we can
  discuss making fruit and spiced meads if anyone is interested.

                          Micah Millspaw - Brewmaster Pangea Beverages



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Date: Mon Nov 18 08:39:30 1991
From: synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Lonon Inns

Well, I can answer some of my own questions:

The CAMRA book is called 'Beer, Bed & Breakfast'.  

Based on recommendations in this book and a couple of others, I made 
reservations at Ye Olde Windmill Inn, in Clapham (SW4), just SW of central 
London.  The lodging is in the former home of the founder of Young's brewery.  
The pub is tied to Youngs (surprise), and near the brewery.  It is supposed to 
be haunted.  It is reasonably priced.  I'll let you know how it turns out.  

- -----
Chuck Cox
SynchroSystems
chuck%synchro at uunet.uu.net


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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 08:50:15 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Chillers, Papazian Trouble Shooting.


Tom Dimcock sez:

>Also, with a counterflow chiller, the wort is protected from
>oxidation and contamination during the entire time it is being
>chilled (assuming the chiller is properly sanitized).
>Here I would definitely give the advantage to counterflow.

Nice summary Tom. I would object to your use of the term oxidation here.
To my (perhaps incorrect) understanding, oxidation is a process whereby oxygen 
is introduced into the beer during and/or after fermentation. Aeration, 
ie mixing in of oxygen (ie air) is more appropriate here. Of course the thing 
you want to avoid (don't think you made this clear) is the aeration of the HOT 
WORT. 

In this respect I don't think there is a substantial difference between the two,
 as in the counterflow a substantial volume of beer stands hot waiting for it's 
turn, while in the immersion the entire volume reduces temperature evenly. Here 
I defer to Mr. Fix, who if I recall correctly warns against the aeration of the 
Hot Wort, so as long as care is taken to leave the pot (whether it be hot wort 
being siphoned, or immersion chilled) covered and unagitated, this danger is not
extreme. Of course once chilled, aeration is desirable.

Perhaps I am just pciking nits here, and this is indeed what you meant, 
but I thought this was important and merited clarification.


Sean posted a bunch of Charlie P Quotes from the first edition, and with all
due respect to Charlie and Sean, I'd say that much of that is useless and/or
out-of-date. A much more useful source of troubleshooting info is the Zymurgy
Special Troubleshooting Issue. Perhaps some of this made it to the NEW edition
of Papazian. 

The comment on cloudy beer, was certianly inadequate. Non-flocculating yeast,
Chill Haze, there are many reasons for cloudy beer, infection being perhaps the
least common of them. Flat beer, unhealthy yeast will often ferment OK in the
primary, but give out after bottling, also as Sean pointed out insufficient
priming. Overcarbonated beer, here is one where bacterial infection can be a
culprit, but that isn't mentioned. Etc... the point was TCJOHB was a good book
but I'm sure the New one adds a bit to places where the original was too short
(or too flip) to be of use.



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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 9:13:37 EST
From: gkushmer at Jade.Tufts.EDU
Subject: Old Carboy, new problems (Part II)

I took the wise advice offered to me from some digest readers and
soaked a sixty-year old bluish-tinted carboy in a strong chlorine-bleach
solution.  

After a few days of this, the carboy now has more of a greenish tinge to it.
That, and the dirt on the inside has entirely dissolved and went away with the
water when I poured it out.  

New Problem:  There must have been a ferric pebble on the bottom because a 
close examination spotted a rust spot.  I've tried scrubbing with a brush
and am now soaking it in a strong ammonia solution.

Any other advice on what to do?  If the spot does not go away, would it affect
wort?  I was thinking of maybe using it for a very long mead since I wouldn't
be investing much and it would get some use.

Then again, I could use it as my grandfather did - throw in some water and
food coloring and let it sit in the sun on the steps for aesthetics (Maybe
not).

Thanks.

- --gk

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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 09:51:52 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Plastic Cups


Bob Jones mentioned his experience vis-a-vis glass vs. plastic.
What kind of plastic was used Bob??
I have found in putting together competitions that there are 2 kinds.
The hard plastic glasses are fairly odor free, where softer plastic often have
odors. If you used the soft plastic glasses, the odors from these could have
masked any odors you were detecting when using glass.

Glass is usually odor neutral. If you picked up odors when using the glass 
glasses, my guess is those odors were there, and not an artifact. Was any kind of
detergent used on the glass?? My experience judging has led me to always prefer
glass to plastic. I would say that if you noticed the odor in the glass, but
not the plastic, that it was actually there. It would not be unthinkable that
all the beers you were sampling had a common defect. Did you continue to try
additional samples glass vs plastic, to see if the aromas persisted?? I would
hesitate to advocate using plastic glasses over glass based on a sample size of
one. 

As I said my experience is that while some plastics are odor free, many are not.
Glass almost always is though, and I have found myself in competitions with
beer after beer (though not every single beer) in a category exhibiting off
aromas or flavors. I have found oxidation to be a failry common one, so perhaps 
by switching to plastic you simply masked out a component of off aroma that 
you had previosuly never detected. In your previous judging experience did you
use plastic or glass??

 - JaH

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts


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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 08:57:27 CST
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)

Subject: SS fermenters-yet again (George Fix)

More e-mail, and alas this time they contain requests that I
explain my explanations. Shucks, I am determined to make the post
on fermenters comprehensible if it is the last thing I do.

I have fallen into a bad habit of using the term "disconnect" in a
loose and imprecise way. In particular, I tend to use this term for
any devise, which when added to a tank will permit inflow or outflow.
Most of the human race, on the other hand, uses the term "beer tap" 
when such devices are used on draft kegs. Thus, if you replace "disconnect"
everywhere in my last post with "beer tap" it might make more sense. At least 
I hope so.

The tool for breaking into or sealing draft kegs with Hoff-Stevens 
fittings can be obtained from the following:

           Draft Systems
           19791 Bahama St.
           Northridge, California 91324-3397
           818-882-8012

As I mentioned in the post this tool is not really needed.

  


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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 10:00:33 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Hop AA content


>OK, if it is impossible for homegrowers to determine the AA content of your 
>hops, how do you figure out how much of your hops to use?  Many recipes call
>for x amount of bittering units.  Do you just guess?

Well in the past I have seen tables (perhaps in TCJOHB or from the hop
suppliers themselves) which list typical content ranges of various varieties of
hops. So yes, basically you just make an educated guess. As Darryl has
mentioned bitterness extraction during usage is not an exact science, so while
knowing only a range for the bitterness of homegrown hops is possible without
an actual analysis, and thus an extra error is induced in any IBU calculations,
you can only hope for a ballpark number at best anyway.

 - JaH


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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 10:05:53 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Pilsener Urquell & Bottle Color



>This is particularly sad/humorous since Pilsner Urquell (arguably the
>"Ur-pilsner") is bottled in green glass.  One might argue that brown
>bottles are out of style for pilsner!

Import PU to America comes only in green. I don't know why. In Czechoslovakia
they're available in both green & brown, with brown being more common. I
believe the green is being phased out, but I'm not sure the tour guide
understood my question wrt correctly so I won't swear to it.

 - JaH


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Date: Sun 17 Nov 1991 10:09:58
From: READMORE at readmore.com (READMORE.INC)

>From READMORE at readmore.com (null)
From: READMORE at readmore.com
 
Hi all,
 
I'm having a problem which I hope someone can help me with.
 
I've been trying to brew a guiness stout and the results have been a little
off.  My problem is I can't seem to impart the "sweet" taste Guiness has.
I've been using an all-grain recipe. Various recipes I've seen add
sacharine to prior to racking.  I just can't see doing that.  Does anyone
have any suggestions as to how I can get this flavor.  Either by using a
different yeast (currently using Whitebread) such as WYeast Irish Stout or
by adding extra grains.  Currently 7lbs 2 row 2 lbs patent.
 
Any suggestions, ideas or comments?
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Meade Eggleston
Eggleaston at Readmore.Com
 
 



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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 08:40:42 MST
From: resch at craycos.com (David Resch)
Subject: Re: Wrigley Red

>    While I was in Boulder several months ago, I had Wrigley Red (several
>actually) at Old Chicago.  They had it on tap and I found it quite good.  They
>were advertising it as their house beer, "brewed especially for Old Chicago".
>Does anyone know where this beer is brewed and by whom?  I got the impression
>that it was brewed in the Chicago area but I'm not sure.

I believe that this beer is contract brewed for Old Chicago by the Boulder 
Brewery in Boulder.  After their near demise, the Boulder Brewery seems to 
have found a second life as a contract brewery in addition to producing their 
own products.  They brew the beers for the Becketts restaurants (Colorado), 
the bottled  version of the Walnut Brewery's Buffalo Gold (and possibly kegs of
the same),  and the Wrigley Red that you mentioned.  Personally, I prefer most 
if not all of their contract beers to their own products.  

Dave

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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1991 10:58 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: RE's: Chillers redux, Porters, The Color, Up Yoors.

> From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
> Subject:      Chillers redux
> So how do you counter-flowers out there deal with the (very good) cold break?
> Do you just ferment on top of it, or do you use an intermediate vessel where
> you can whirlpool and aerate and then rack to your primary?

I just go ahead and ferment on top of it. After a day of all-grain brewing I'm
really not ready to wait another hour or so to end up going through a racking
procedure (more time and more cleaning). My beers still taste great, IMNSHO.
I've also read that too efficient removal of cold break prior to fermentation
can result in onion-like flavours in beer. I really should try it though just
for the experience but since I've never had problems with my beers I've always
viewed removal of cold break as being one step too anal retentive. My homebrew
acquaintences will probably be in shock when they hear that one. :)


> From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
> Subject: Porters, Recent travels. etc...
> So what I'm asking is how much dark grain do the rest of you porter lovers
> use and what do you feel is the optimal "time in bottle"?

I use 250 grams Chocolate malt (roughly 1/2 lb.) and 125 grams Black Patent
malt. As far as bottle time is concerned, you may not like this .... I wait
six months for my Porters. It's worth the wait.


> From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
> Subject: The Color of Beer
> Help me with the colors of my beers.  I know SRM is a measure of color--I've
> even read about it.  But for the life of me I can't remember where, and I
> can't locate anything in any of my books, digests, or Zymurgys.  (Of course,
> that doesn't mean it's not there--I just can find it by using the indices,
> tables of contents, and relatively detailed perusal.)  So question number 1:
> What's SRM, how is it measured, etc.?

I'm quoting from "The Essemtials of Beer Style" by Fred Eckhardt:

 ******************************************************************************
 *                           COLOR DEFINITIONS                                *
 *                                                                            *
 *       Color 1-10 scale:                             SRM *                  *
 *                                                                            *
 *              0  water                               0                      *
 *          1-1.5  light straw                         1-2.5                  *
 *          1.5-2  pale straw                          2.5-3.5                *
 *          2-3.5  dark straw                          3.5-5.5                *
 *        3.5-4.5  light amber                         5.5-10                 *
 *        4.5-5.5  pale amber                          10-18                  *
 *        5.5-6.5  dark amber or copper                18-26                  *
 *        6.5-8.5  very dark amber "dark"              26-40                  *
 *        8.5-10   "black"                             40 & up                *
 *                                                                            *
 *   *SRM = Standard Research Method degree, roughly equivalent to the old    *
 *   lovibond degree, and is used by the ASBC, (American Society of Brewing   *
 *   Chemists). In this system color is noted as degree SRM. The Europeans    *
 *   use a unit called "EBC (European Brewery Congress) degree". This is      *
 *   variable, but sometimes:                                                 *
 *   1 degree EBC = 2.65 degree SRM, less 1.2.                                *
 *   1 degree SRM = 0.375 EBC degree, plus 0.46.                              *
 ******************************************************************************

The 1-10 scale is the one used in the book. The SRM numbers are the ones you are
interested in. As far as using SRM or lovibond ratings of grain to formulate
a recipe, remember that one pound of grain with a rating of 20 will yield one
gallon of wort with an SRM of 20. This is always an approximation because
mashing and sparging efficiencies vary from brewer to brewer. Anchor Steam beer
has an SRM of 5. (Don't ya just love all these "roughlies" and
"approximatelies" ;-)


> From: kla!kirkish at Sun.COM (Steve Kirkish)
> Subject: Up Yoors Coors (A bumper sticker, not a flame)
> On my way into work the other morning I passed a big 'ol pick-up truck with
> the following bumper sticker on the back end:
>            _______________________________________________
>            |               UP YOORS COORS!               |
>            |   Boycott Coors        Non-Pasteurized Beer | 
>            -----------------------------------------------

Hmmm .... shouldn't that say "Non-Flavoured Beer".

> Which actually raises some questions:
>     1. Why would a beer be pasteurized?  As a yeast-icide method?  Won't
>        heat affect the flavor of the beer?  Is this why Coors "cold-filters"?
>     2. At what point in the process would a brewer pasteurize his beer?

Pasteurization knocks out yeast and a good portion of any bacteria in the beer.
Result: storage stability. Yes, heat affects the flavour, for the worse. Cold
filtering at 0.4 micron or less does remove microbes. They also cold filter to
remove potential chill haze components for appearence sake. I'm not sure at what
point in production a large brewery like Coors would pasteurize their beer but
homebrewers who are interested in trying it (god knows why) can do it after
bottling. The caveat is that the beer must be filtered since the heat would
cause the yeast to lyse and the result would be an intense yeasty flavour in the
beer. Furthermore, the carbonated and filtered beer must be bottled using a
counter-pressure bottle filler in order to minimize oxygen contact with the
finished beer. The heat of pasteurization would accelerate oxidation reactions
and the beer would taste "cooked" so oxygen is a real problem in pasteurization.
Seems like alot of trouble to produce a beer the likes of which most homebrewers
are deliberately attempting to avoid.

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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 08:02:03 PST
From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Pitching Rates and Aeration

In reference to an article I posted a while back, someone responded:

> I thought "someone else" would address the question, which I think was
> missed by Richard.  That is, liquid yeast, even when properly
> activated, does not supply sufficient quantities of active yeast for a
> vigorous start to fermentation of a 5 gallon batch.  Certainly,
> aeration _is_ important, but I think this is secondary to creating a
> "sufficient" quantity of active starter.

Due more to procedural error than to design, I had the opportunity to
do a side-by-side experiment this weekend.  (In English, "I screwed up
and forgot to make a starter for the second batch.")

Batch #25A is a Bass Ale clone from "The Cat's Meow".  I made up a
starter two days in advance, and shook the hell out of the carboy
before pitching.

Batch #25B is identical in ingredients and procedure to Batch #25A,
except I didn't make a starter.

Fermentation in #25A was going great guns in about 12 hours, and had
slowed considerably after 36 hours.

Fermentation in #25B didn't really get started for almost 36 hours.

A side note:  I made the wort for the starters on a Sunday, the day my
supplier is closed.  I didn't have any extract, so I did a "full mash"
of exactly one quart of beer.

gak

Richard Stueven       AHA# 22584 |----------| You talk to me about picking up
Internet:       gak at Corp.Sun.COM |----GO----| the slack, then you turn around
ATTMAIL:         ...!attmail!gak |---SHARX--| and stab me right in the back...
Cow Palace: Sec 107 Row F Seat 8 |----------| Talk Is Cheap.

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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 09:14:35 -0700
From: Jason Goldman <jason at gibson.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Wrigley Red

Guy D. McConnell writes:

>     While I was in Boulder several months ago, I had Wrigley Red (several
> actually) at Old Chicago.  They had it on tap and I found it quite good.  They
> were advertising it as their house beer, "brewed especially for Old Chicago".
> Does anyone know where this beer is brewed and by whom?  I got the impression
> that it was brewed in the Chicago area but I'm not sure.

Wrigley Red is brewed by the Walnut Brewery in Boulder as a contract brew.
There is also a chain of pubs called "Beckett's" that, like Old Chicago,
are owned by Concept Restaurants.  Beckett's serves "handcrafted beers" that
are contract brewed by the Walnut also.

Jason
jason at gibson.sde.hp.com


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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 13:12:06 CST
From: milton at ccu.UManitoba.CA
Subject: poor brewing method?

In a discussion on oxidised beer it was mentioned that a 'sherry like'
flavour may be present and could be a problem caused by oxidization.
I frequently have this sort of flavour, also a carmalized flavour. My
beers are usually a light straw colour. Is it possible that my
technique is poor and is causing this 'sherry like' or carmalized flavour.

I use a 30 litre plastic pail for the primary and 23 litre glass carboy
for secondary. At one point the plastic secondaries I got with the
beer kit started to smell - nothing I could do would get rid of the
smell so I began to use the glass carboy - no more strange smells of
skunky beer. I siphon the beer carefully from the primary to secondary
once the krausen (sp?) has disappeared and let fermentation go to
completion in the secondary. After this, I siphon back into the
sterilised primary and bottle from there. This last step has helped me
make much clearer beer - less sediment in the bottle.

For making the wort I put 5-10 litres of cold water into the primary.
Then I boil 8 litres of water with sugar (if required) and malt extract for
20 to 30 minutes. After boiling I pour it into the cold water and add
enough water to bring the total volume up to 23 litres. This step
usually generates lots of foam; I thought this was benificial since it
would add oxygen needed for the yeast into the wort - I'm not so sure now.
Normally the temperature of the wort at this point is about 35 C which
is far too hot so I wait until the next morning before adding the
yeast.

Is there something wrong with the above method? What can I do to
improve it?

Thanks for any help

David A. Milton                    Internet: <milton at ccu.UManitoba.CA>
University of Manitoba               Bitnet: <milton at UOFMCC>
Winnipeg, Canada

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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 14:21:27 EST
From: Grant Basham <grant at oj.rsmas.miami.edu>
Subject: Bakers Malt Extract?

The local Baker's Supply house sells malt extract in 60# tins
for about $38.  This is a BUNCH cheaper than other sources of
malt extract.  Any of you non-purist out there know what is in this
stuff.  They won't read me a lable over the phone.
Anyone ever tried it?
- -- 
  Grant Basham                  Systems: RSMAS Computer Facility
  grant at oj.rsmas.miami.edu      (305)361-4026

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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 13:28 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Plastic cups

Bob Jones writes:
>or ph or something. I think all competitions should switch to clear 
>plastic cups to prevent this problem. What the hell their cheap.

I don't believe that there's any smell that can "stick" to glass that
doesn't "stick" to plastic.  Cost is not the reason for NOT using
plastic cups, in my opinion.  Unless the cups are going to be recycled
(which still uses more energy than washing glassware) they're going to
go into a landfill or be burned.  The only time I use plastic cups
is for outdoor parties, and then I use some thick plastic cups that
I reuse.  Maybe the problem at the competition was a smell in the
water?
Al.

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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 11:37:04 PST
From: "rpierce.US" <rpierce at US.oracle.com>
Subject: BEERBEERBEERBEERBEER


Howdy all-

	How's that brew coming along??

	Just a couple questions for other Bay Area homebrewers.  First,
My partner and I just tasted our most recent batch, and were very pleased with
the results, so we are trying to find our if there are any contests/festivals
coming up where we could share the product.  Any info would be greatly
appreciated since we're pretty new to brewing in S.F.   Secondly, we are
contemplating dry hopping one of our upcoming batches.  Anyone out there 
have any hints on how to best do this??  
	On a different note, my brother was in town this weekend, and we went
on the Anchor Steam Brewery tour friday afternoon.  Boy'o'boy was that fun.
It happens every week day at 1 pm and is free.  They take about 30 people per
tour and reservations are required.  It usually draws a pretty good crowd so if
you are considering it, call a couple weeks in advance.  The actual tour is
killer-a complete trip through the brewery.  This part takes about an hour and
then they let us loose in the tasting room.  They offer all their beers on tap-
free of charge-and usually have a couple special bottled batches they       
break out.  On tap, they serve their Wheat beer, the regular Steam, Liberty
Ale(one of my favorites), the Porter and a Barley wine that's about 7%
and is known as Foghorn Lager.  They were also pouring a Spruce Beer that they
brewed only 3000 cases of for a 10th Anniversary Festival in Denver this past
summer-that's only available in Denver and San Francisco-lucky us.  It had
a very pine like smell and flavor and I really liked it-though some of the
feabler tasters hated it-but who cares what they think.  They also told us that
their Christmas beer is coming out after Thanksgiving, and that they will be
offering that to tour guests as soon as it hits the retail market around
December 1st.  That's it for now, but there's always more on the way.  

	KEEP ON BREWING THE GOOD BEER-----Russ Pierce

P.S. If anyone would like more info regarding the Anchor Tour, feel free to
contact me and I'll try to help you out-and I might even take a day off
and join you on the tour.

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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 11:12:17 PST
From: winter at cirrus.com (Keith Winter)
Subject: chillers

>> ...after five batches, however, they could start thinking
>> about a wort chiller...
>And maybe not.  After 80 batches, I'm still just  thinking  about
>the  chiller.  I'm actually just dropping the pot in the pool and
>letting the heat dissipate  harmlessly  into  20,000  gallons  of
>(seasonally cold) water.
>
I've using this method, for about two years now.  The pool is an effective 
heat-sink (comparred to two or three gallons of wort, 22,500 gallons is 
effectively infinite).  During the winter, the water in the pool is around 
45F degrees so it will cool the wort in about 30 minutes.  I strain this into 
three gallons of chilled, pre-boiled water in a sanitized primary and get a 
real nice cold-break.  After sitting for a couple of hours in the refridgerator 
(at 40F degrees or so), it whirl it and siphon into the primary, leaning all 
that nasty trub behind, and then pitch the yeast starter.  Of course, this
doesn't work quite as well in the summer when we maintain the pool around
80F degrees but it still brings it down quickly and when added to the 
pre-chilled water yields a good cold-break.

So far, I have not had a reason to spend the money on a chiller.  Using the
pool also saves water (an important consideration in drought-ridden Ca.) over
running a chiller and dumping the water down the drain (I like the idea of
running the output of the chiller into the pool, however...).

	Keith Winter

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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1991 10:22 PDT
From: Bob Jones <BJONES at NOVA.llnl.gov>
Subject: Mash Tun False Bottoms

>In HD 762 Mike Sharp asks :
>How does one place a false bottom inside a 15gal keg? 

I have used two different methods. One is with SS screen sandwiched 
between two SS rings cut from a large diameter SS pipe. One of these 
SS rings is placed inside the other, with the SS screen between. The 
sandwich is held together with SS screws and nuts. I then made a 
copper L shaped pipe with a compression fitting that connects to the 
fitting that passes through the keg wall and on to the output valve. One 
end of this pipe rests on the bottom of the keg after passing through 
the SS screen. It is held in place in the screen with two washers 
soldered on each side of the screen to the pipe. Whew! We need 
some drawing tools here. This screen method works great, however it 
is complex to make(unless you have a machinist friend who likes 
beer). I have used another method that I think is easier to make and 
works just as well. You make a ring out of copper tubing that has a T 
in it. The output of the T connects to more tubing that connect to a 
compression fitting that connects to the same fitting that passes 
through the keg wall. This circular ring that rests on the bottom of the 
keg has lots of saw kerfs in the bottom of it. I mean one every 1/4 
inch. The compression fittings allow you to remove either fixture for 
cleaning. Obviously the hole in the top of the keg is a little larger than 
the fixture. Mine are about 10-12 inches in diameter. I have been 
using the SS screen method for years for both kettle and mash tun. I 
recently went to the tubing method when I gas fired my mash tun for 
step mashing. I was afraid the mash liquid would not be properly 
mixed if below a screen, hence the new tubing design. Both work very 
good in a mash tun situation. I never liked the idea of using a picnic 
cooler for mashing. The thought of leaching weird chemicals out of the 
plastic don't settle with me. I know the manufacture says that these 
liners are safe, I just don't want to take the chance. Besides the SS 
keg will last forever, and is cheap(the cost of a deposit). I hope no one 
from AB is listening. Good luck.

Bob Jones


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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 91 13:13:38 EST
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re dry vs wet yeasts

   wrt the ratings of various yeasts, it should be noted that in the
ZYMURGY yeast ratings only one yeast scored as high as 8 out of 10;
that was M&F dry ale yeast.
   note, however, that Wyeast sells a great many varieties marked for
different beer styles; has anyone ever determined which dry yeasts are
best for which styles, or does the need for hardiness override
style-related variations?

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #763, 11/19/91
*************************************
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