---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Unattended Mode Imminent (***Digest Maker***)
  BRAVO (Jack Schmidling)
  Need Learned Opinions On Beers To Buy (Jeff Mizener  at  Siemens Energy)
  Label removing (korz)
  axbridge microbrewery ("Joe T. Coohill")
  Specific Gravity before and after boil  (Eric Mintz)
  Thermal properties of materials, polyethylene tubing (Bruce Mueller)
  Detergents, Label Removal, and TSP (Steve Kirkish)
  Late Boil-up (IO10676)
  A review of Sisson's (a brewpub in Baltimore, MD) (S94WELKE)
  Correction/Apology (S94TAYLO)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #767 (November 25, 1991) (Robert Orr)
  Bottles and labels (Tom Dimock)
  Irish Yeast, Alzheimers, Yeast Lysis, Delayed Postings, ... (MIKE LIGAS)
  beer life (Jeanne Sova ASQNC-TAB-IS 5320)
  The Perfect Beer Bottles (IO10676)
  Samuel Adams Cranberry Beer ("Ihor W. Slabicky")
  sparge buckets (John Freeman)
  Michael Jackson.... (Ron Karwoski)
  faucet adapter (Bob Mastors)
  Bottle Recommendation (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #768 (November 26, 1991) (b_turnbaugh)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #767 (November 25, 1991) (Daniel Roman)
  SA matrix (Norm Pyle)
  Re: Removing Bottle Labels (Arthur Delano)
  partyball (Jim Bergman)
  Homebrew Store (Ted Manahan)
  more on de-labeling (Dave Barrett)
  The Perfect Brand of Bottle (#HBD 726) (Jean Hunter)
  malting and barley (Brian Smithey)
  Re: Removing bottle labels (Ken Giles)
  Re: window screen (korz)
  Favorite Bottles (C.R. Saikley)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #768 (November 26, 1991) (Dan Hahn)
  Cost of Kegs (C.R. Saikley)
  Re: De-DMS'ing my brew (larryba)
  Re- Samuel Adams Holiday Cl (Bob Hettmansperger)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: This Day
From: Rob the Robster (***Digest Maker***)
Subject: Unattended Mode Imminent


I'm heading over to Scotland in a few days to tour the pubs, uh, I
mean for business, so the digest will be running all on its own for a
couple of weeks. Please try to behave while I'm gone, and note that
change and unsubscribe requests will not be handled for a while.  If
the digest stops, please don't panic! At worst, it'll be gone for a
few days (or weeks), and at best, there should (might) be somebody
available here to fix it. There's also a tiny chance I'll be able to
check my email while I'm away.


Rob

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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 13:13 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: BRAVO

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com>
 Subject: Whose Kegs Anyway?
 
 >In all this talk about using stainless steel kegs for kettles and 
 fermenters, I've noticed one small detail missing: Most of these kegs belong 
 to someone else! To me, this has two elements, one moral and one political. 
 The first is that, since most kegs are the property of breweries, it's simple 
 theft to cut them up and use them for kettles. While it's true that this is 
 less expensive--for you--than buying a SS kettle from a kitchen supply store, 
 it's *not* less expensive for the brewery which has to replace it. Kegs are
 expensive.
 
 BRAVO!  My only regret is that I did not think of this first.  I have three 
 "stolen" kegs in my basement but I did recently by a SS brewpot for my 
 belated penance.  I fell a little less guilty because mine are aluminum but 
 your point is well taken, as it should be.  It's a bit like pirating videos 
 or software.  Come to think of it, it's much worse.  It's like stealing 
 hardware.
 
 From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
 Subject: Window screen
 
 Jack writes:
 >A small piece of window screen is rolled several times around the pipe and
 >secured with a hose clamp or twisted copper wire.   The screen roll extends
 >several inches past the end of the pipe and the last inch is bent over itself
 >to prevent anything from entering the spiggot that has not passed through
 >several layers of screen.
 
 <All the modern window screens I've seen in my area, are made of some mystery
 metal.  It doesn't rust, so it's not steel, it oxidizes too easily and the
 oxide is too dark to be aluminum.  Maybe it's galvanized steel.  The oxide
 comes off on your hands very easily.  Jack's idea is inventive, but I would
 recommend against using window screen. 
 
 The term "window screen" is more to define the mesh size and type than the 
 specific material.  Although I am using "hardware cloth" as it is called, 
 window screen is also available in copper and stainless if you hunt around.
 
 I believe that "hardware cloth" is galvanized steel.  I currently am taking a 
 zink suplement with my daily vitimins so I doubt that any zink leaching off 
 the little bit of screen would do anything other than save a few more of my 
 brain cells.
 
 From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
 Subject: Window screen revisited
 
 >I just had another thought about the screen-around-the-pipe lauter
 tun.  If the only exit for a large diameter container was centrally
 located, a lot of sugars could be left behind in the grain.  The
 sparge water can sit stagnant at the sides of the tun where there is
 little "current." 
 
 That is why it took an intrepid experimenter to risk a batch of beer to check 
 it out.  The proof of the pudding is in the eating.  That is also why I 
 included my method for checking on the sparge completeness in the article.
 
 However, what actually happened was that my wort was boiling and burning 
 under the false bottom and I lifted it, foolishly thinking that I could put 
 it back in when ready to sparge.  The "intrepid experimenter"  was actually a 
 victim of his own stupidity but got lucky.  Don't knock it till you try it.
 
 I did another batch this weekend this way and got the same results.  That 
 makes 4 with only the pipe and screen.  BTW, the pipe is 1/4 in and only 
 three inches long and the screen only extends about two inches.
 
 Now that I have my ten gal SS pot, I have advanced the process another step 
 and made sparging much simpler.  Instead of retiring the enamel kettle, I am 
 still using it for mashing.  BTW, mine has now developed the "creaking 
 handle" syndrome but at least at mash temp, it is easy to lift by the lip 
 with potholders.
 
 I use the SS kettle to heat the sparging water and it runs directly into the 
 mash kettle (moved down to a stool), thence into the jug.  The whole business 
 is more or less automatic and needs only a watchful eye.  
 
 I start heating the water about an hour before the mash cycle is complete and 
 it takes about that long to come to a boil.....  I can't wait to hear from 
 the moms on boiling sparge water.  
 
 I did, however,  learn about turning wort into baked on enamel.  Mom got that 
 one right.
 
 js
 

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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 12:49:10 EST
From: jm at sead.siemens.com (Jeff Mizener  at  Siemens Energy)
Subject: Need Learned Opinions On Beers To Buy

Gentle Beer Fanciers--

This request has nothing to do with Brewing Beer, per se, but rather
with Evaluating Beer.  I haven't brewed yet, but I will soon, and would
like some experienced and/or learned opinions.

I find there are some commercial beers for sale out there that are not
too bad.  But that's my taste.  I'd like to hear if anyone has anything
good to say about popularly priced beers.  In other words, if you couldn't
brew, and you couldn't spend $10 for a six of <insert favourite mini/micro
brew name here>, what would you buy?

For instance:  Coors has a Christmas beer out now.  The label says Stout,
but if it's a Stout, my name's Porter.  In comparison to normal Coors,
it's a solid at room temperature, however.  And "In My Humble Opionon"
it's pretty good.  Any Comments?

I lived in Germany for six years and drank 'microbrewery' beer every
day (and it was !!CHEAP!!).  The selection at my local 'drink-market'
was great (almost all in nice, uniform, brown, returnable 0.5L bottles).
The problem then was not choosing a good beer, but trying to taste them
all in 6 years...

Now, I live in Raleigh, NC.  We have "State Liquor" here and although
one can buy Beer and Wine in grocery stores, there seems to be a subtle
pressure on the part of the Bureaucracy to limit the number of available
beers to a Few Major Brands.  Or I may have it wrong, it may be that nothing
but MilBudLob is acceptable to the consumer here.  Remember that this is
the same state that let a Chicken Processing Plant go uninspected for
11 years while the ice cream plant next door (and employing only 6 people)
was inspected several times over the last 5 years.  And this is the state
that elected Terry Sanford and Jesse Helms.  But the weather's nice
and the beaches are clean, so it's not a bad place...

Many of the beer names that I see flashing by on my screen here are not
available in my area.  Or at least I haven't found them yet.  So I'd
appreciate hearing about 'national brands' that won't turn my toenails
green or empty my wallet.

Thanks.

I'll summarize, so don't post unless you feel it's essential or can't
reach me by mail (it happens).

Jeff


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Mizener / Siemens Energy & Automation / Intelligent SwitchGear Systems
Raleigh, NC / jm at sead.siemens.com / (919) 365-2551 
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+++ Wo man Bier trinkt und ein Lied sing, ist es herrlich auf der Welt. +++

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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 17:36 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Label removing

Sterling asks about label removing.

I used to use Washing Soda (Sodium Carbonate) when I used to use bottles.
I recall someone else mentioning Washing Soda in a recent post so I'd
like to recount an experience I had with Washing Soda:

I found that Washing Soda in hot tap water worked really well to remove
labels from bottles, even the foil ones, so I proceeded to do a large
number of them at one time.  I let the bottles soak for 8 or 10 hours
(I don't really recall exactly) and then rinsed them inside and out
with plenty of hot water.  I prodeeded to sanitize as usual, with
bleach solution, followed by hot tapwater rinse, and then upside-down
into a case lined with paper towels.  Everything went fine until I
set up to bottle.  When the bottles dried, I noticed a white residue
on the outside (all over, not just where the label was).  If it's on
the outside, then it must also be on the inside.  No amount of washing
could remove the residue, however, I could mechanically rub the residue
off.  I figured it was either the Sodium Carbonate or the glue or
some byproduct of the Sodium Carbonate and glue or Sodium Carbonate
and the foil labels.  I did quite poorly in chem, so I wasn't sure
what it was, but I was pretty sure that the Sodium Carbonate was
alkaline.  If I soaked the bottles in an acid, maybe it would convert
the residue into a soluble salt.  I chose lemon juice and it worked.
a 4 hour soak in dilute lemon juice followed by a hot water rinse
removed the residue.

After all that, I'd like to recommend that you maybe fill your bottles
with plain water and cap them before soaking them in the Washing Soda
solution (i.e. keep the Washing Soda OUTSIDE the bottles).  Maybe
someone with more knowledge of Chem could comment on whether my problem
was due to the glue or foil or if Sodium Carbonate should be avoided
for cleaning glassware.

Al.

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Date:     Mon, 25 Nov 91 14:25:46 PST
From: "Joe T. Coohill" <GD03JTC%UCSBVM.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:  axbridge microbrewery

I would like information and tips on the Axbridge Microbrewery (one of which
I just bought).  It's basically a bag in which both the primary and
secondary fermentation takes place, and from which you can tap a glass
of beer after 21 days.  Any special recipies out there?  Any hints or
pitfalls I should look out for?

Thanks,

Joe Coohill


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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 16:08:07 MST
From: Eric Mintz <ericm at bach>
Subject: Specific Gravity before and after boil 

I'm now on my 7th batch of all-grain brews and I noticed something
surprising (to me, anyway :-) on this last batch. I measured SG before
and after the boil for the first time (in the previous batches, I either
measured before or after, but not both).  I expected the SG to be higher
due to the evaporation from the boil, right?  WRONG!  The SG dropped!
The only explanation I could think of is that the trub (before
precipitation -- that is, while still in solution) contributed some to
the SG.  Either that or I screwed up my before-boil measurement :-).
Anyone care to take a stab at what's going on here?

- --Eric

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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 17:04:18 PST
From: Bruce Mueller <mueller at sdd.hp.com>
Subject: Thermal properties of materials, polyethylene tubing


Here is data on melting points (deg Fahrenheit) and thermal conductivities (Btu-ft/hr-ft2-F):

Material      Melting point     Thermal cond.   Comments 
- --------      -------------     ------------  ------------------------------
Cast iron       2000 - 2200       18 -  30
Aluminum alloys  890 - 1215       67 - 128    Pure Al: higher value, each pair
304/316 SS      1600 - 1700*        9.4       The stainless you'll probably get
Glass            930 - 2800**    0.4 - 0.84   Pure silica: high values

*  Maximum use temperatures:  metallurgy is more important than melting point.
** Softening point:  these are supercooled liquids, so the viscosity keeps 
dropping with temperature.  No true m.p. exists.

To convert temperatures to deg C, subtract 32 and then divide by 1.8.  To 
convert the thermal conductivities to W-cm/cm2-C, multiply by 3.44x10-4.  There,
now whether you prefer metric or English units, you've got it!

By the way, I've heard the comparison that cast iron and stainless steel are 
comparable insulators to glass.  The numbers above say glass is at least ten 
times better!  My source of information: Machine Design 1987 Materials Reference
Issue.  Now, anyone who wants to do the calculations regarding meltdown of pots
can, with the help of a good Chemical/Mechanical Engineering textbook.  Oh yeah,
it helps if you're an engineer (we still need a few train drivers, right?).

Tubing:
If anyone wants some clear polyethylene tubing at $0.30/ft, I have some in 20 ft
lengths.  It's really good for keg hose: no plasticizers to leach.  A bit stiff.
If you want it, please don't clutter the Digest, order direct via email.  This 
isn't really a commercial; I'd ordered this for fellow QUAFF members, but only
a couple came through with $$.

Bruce Mueller, Development Engineer Chemist (what a title!)

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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1991 14:27:49
From: kla!kirkish at Sun.COM (Steve Kirkish)
Subject: Detergents, Label Removal, and TSP

Boy, what you learn on the HBD.  I've found the thread about soap vs.
detergent useful for a couple of reasons.  First of all, the fact that the
soap film kills beer head goes a long way toward explaining why my good 'n
bubbly homebrew lacks a good head.  I handwash all my glasses (the drought,
ya know,) and am thinking about changing my dishwashing brand to something
"cleaner".  Larry Barello recommends Dawn...any other suggestions?  (thanks
also to Larry for providing the ingredients to check for.)

Second detergent notion:  Sterling Udell (HBD#767) asks:

>I've heard that prolonged soaking in the proper chemical will make even
>the most recalcitrant labels float right off.  Problem is, I can't
>remember _what_ chemical it is.

In HBD #766, Larry B. mentions Washing Soda (sodium carbonate).  I'd like to
add my suggestion of TSP (Tri Sodium Phosphate, a powder available at
hardware stores) mixed with water.  I used a 30+ gallon garbage can to hold
the bottles and the solution overnight (had a *lot* of bottles).  Funny
thing:  The labels on the crown cap bottles slide off easily; the labels on
the screw tops don't.  Consistent for different brands.  Go figure.  Of
course, a thorough washing of the bottles should follow.

Now then, to the homebrewing audience:  Waddaya think about TSP?  Good or
bad?

- -- Steve Kirkish

PS:  Thanks to all for the pasteurizing info, based on my "Up Yoors Coors"  
entry.  I certainly wouldn't consider removing my yeast (it wouldn't be
"real ale", but then again, it probably would be a "real pain"!), but just
think:  Anchor flash pasteurizes and Coors doesn't, and then compare the
flavor.  I know the ingredients and process differ, but that flashing,
amazingly, can't be all bad.


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Date:    Mon, 25 Nov 91 21:34:10 EST
From: IO10676 at maine.maine.edu
Subject: Late Boil-up

Damndest thing.  In all my year of brewing :)  I've never seen anything
like it.

OK, everyone knows how much wort likes to boil over when you first
start it at 212 degrees.  I know this as well as anyone, having suffered
through a boilover of what my brewpartner termed "biblical proportions"
last spring.

Hopefully everyone knows how to get through this, too.  I don't recall
who tipped us off to this, but it was someone here on the HBD . . . When
the wort forms a head and starts making a run for the edge of the pot,
you pour a splash of cold water in it.  Puts it right in its place,
which is back in the pot.

But this is off the subject.  Usually, I have to do this maybe 4 or 5
times - 10 or 12 for a particularly ornery brew - and then the foam
breaks up and the wort settles in and boils happily.  No problem.

Until tonight.  I was boiling up a batch of stout, pretty basic in
most respects.  I had given the wort the cold-water treatment maybe
half a dozen times, and it had started behaving nicely.  I went off to
do the dishes.  At 47 minutes of boil, some innate brewsense told me to
look over my shoulder . . . Sure enough, the wort was just making its
break.  I leaped to the stove, killed the burner, moved the pot, and
started it heating again.  I cleaned up the spill (not much) and went
back to the dishes (i had to clear the sink for wort chilling), but
10 minutes later, the wort did its thing again.  This time I was ready
with the cold water, but I still didn't understand it.

Anyway, I finished the batch, and it's happily starting its ferment in
my closet as I type.  But I still don't know why it started boiling up
again so late.  I'm not excessively experienced - about 20 batches -n
but I've NEVER seen this happen before.  Has anyone else?  Do you
have any clue why?  Or how to avoid it?

Many thanks . . .

Sterling Udell
Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division
"NEVER turn your back on a boiling wort."
                                     - Big Dog Solstice Stout

P.S.:  Thanks also to all who replied about delabeling bottles.  About
6 or 8 of you, most of whom advocate ammonia, althoug a couple espouse
bleach or B-Brite as well.

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Date:     Mon, 25 Nov 91 21:36 EST
From: <S94WELKE%USUHSB.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:  A review of Sisson's (a brewpub in Baltimore, MD)

Sisson's can be found just south of the Inner Harbor area of Baltimore.  It's
about six block south of the MD Science Center (from there, go south on Light
St. and turn right on Cross, Sisson's is #36, on the right).  In a seedy part
of town, but aren't all great bars?  (maybe not the Top of the Mark).
They have three house brews on tap: Marble Golden Ale, Amber Ale, and Stout.

Marble Golden: A pleasingly bitter and creamy textured concoction with strong
hop aroma and flavor.  The hops definitely are out in front of the malt, but
the malt that's there is slightly sweet, yet light and sneaking around
in the background.  The color is a beautiful gold, and the flavor assertive.
The beer's body was just enough to make it swallow well (not something to chew
on).  I give it a 17 on the 20 point scale.  A beer I'll drink again.

Amber:  A very malty, somewhat sweet brew.  Color was pleasing, kinda rosy; a
bit paler than Sam Adams.  The aroma was dull, and the flavor nutty with a
tiny hint of clove.  Hop character was lacking (in my biased hophead opinion)
but the body was good (very frothy, nice head, substantial mouthfeel).  My
wife commented "it coats your tongue," but I thought it was within reason.
I gave it a 13.

Stout: Deep brown, moderately bitter and not too sweet.  I always end up
comparing stouts to Guiness Stout, and I thought this one was
less sweet, slgithly more bitter, maltier, and with less body.  The head
was disappointing.  Lots of flavors to sort through: malty with roasted
(black patent, even) tones, hints of yeastiness (I thought of once-risen
bread dough), and butterscotch.  I gave it a 14.

About the place: good bottled beer selection, also an excellent restaurant.
They specialize in cajun/creole, but the seafood caught my eye.  They have a
Gumbo du jour, and a soup, and a pasta.  I missed the "Bay Scallops and
Linguini with Lobstercream Sauce," but I think i may go back for it.
Great dessert menu--don't miss the Black Pearl Pie, sort of a warm cookie
(chocolate chip) cut in wedges.  If you go, be sure to get tickets for the
Monet exhibit at the BMA, closing Jan 16, '92.  Worth a day trip from DC.

BTW "the 20 point scale" is from Papazian, p. 318.  I used it in hopes
of being more objective.

- --Scott Welker

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Date:     Mon, 25 Nov 91 22:00 EST
From: <S94TAYLO%USUHSB.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:  Correction/Apology

I did not deliberately intend to accuse Jay Hersch in the Great Video Scandal
of 1991.  I have apologized to him directly, and I'm making a correction to
all the flame-throwers and all those interested in the truth.
I appreciate the kindly-worded urgings to make amends with JaH, and it has
been taken care of.  So, please, don't send me any more flak about it, `cause
I won't even read it.

When I get a few more minutes later, I'll post my recipe for this year's
version of Cranberry/Orange beer.
Al Taylor
Uniformed Services University
School of Medicine
Bethesda, Maryland
s94taylor at usuhsb.bitnet

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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 91 19:06:29 PST
From: roborr at polari (Robert Orr)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #767 (November 25, 1991)

Please remove my name/address from the mailing list.

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Date:         Tue, 26 Nov 91 09:22:59 EST
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Bottles and labels

If you want sturdy bottles with labels that come off easily, try to
find re-usable bottles.  In this area (the northeast) Yeungling
brews are my choice.  Since the brewery has to remove the labels to
re-use the bottles, they don't put them on with the horrible glues
that are used for throw-away bottles.  Yeungling labels slide right off
after three minutes in hot water!  Plus the bottles are nice heavy brown
long-necks.  And the beer that comes in them is fine stuff - my favorite
is their porter.

I agree with Michael Hall that Dos Equis labels are the WORST!  To me,
they are just not worth the effort.  Why no leave the labels on, you
say?  Well, I'm a little anal about that....

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1991 09:52 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Irish Yeast, Alzheimers, Yeast Lysis, Delayed Postings, ...

> From: "Randy Pals" <pals at inland.com>
> Subject: Carbonation using Wyeast Irish Stout
> I just made a porter using said yeast, popped the first bottle
> in the fridge upon reading Ken's note, and have found the
> carbonation to be just fine.

I use this strain for all my Porters w/o any probs either.


> From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
> Subject: SS Fermentors, Melting, Aluminum, and Chiller vs Chiller
>   What does anyone know about the absorption of aluminum into the body
>   from the use of antiperspirants?  As most of you know, antiperspirants
>   are based on some reactive aluminum compound (AlCl3 is one) which 
>   readily reacts with water.  So, how many of you play it safe here as
>   well?  It would be interesting to attempt a study of Alzheimers in the
>   US vs another country where the use of antiperspirant is not as common,
>   although it would be impossible to isolate this as the only difference
>   between the two populations.

I did a Medline search for reviews on the subject of Alzheimers a few days ago
so I could track down some reading to refresh my memory on this topic. I won't
bore digest readers with the details of recent statistical and molecular
genetic findings since this is a beer digest, but it appears that the
aluminum issue is one of those things that was blown out of proportion. The
genetic component of the disease is what is grabbing the interest of the
scientific community since predisposition to Alzheimers may be predictable and
possibly treatable in the future through genetic diagnosis and manipulation.
That is why the proposed study is irrelevent and as stated "it would be
impossible to isolate this as the only difference between the two populations".
That is a flaw of the statistical approach which is often revealed by more
solid 'real' data. Furtheremore, two populations selected for their differences
in predisposition to Alzheimers likely have many genetic differences. The study
has a bias before it even begins. I just Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Mitchum ...
for my friends' sake. ;-)


I agree with all the replies to Larry Barello wrt DMS problems. It seems that
he has all the bases covered except for the malt variable.


> From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
> Subject: Re: GLUG!
> Also, if I drop an empty carboy, I'll only have to deal with the broken
> glass.  If I drop a full carboy, I'll also have to deal with my
> downstairs neighbor.  Imagine his ire when beer comes dripping through
> his ceiling!

Ire?! .... I can picture him face up at the ceiling with his mouth wide open!


> From: AEW at b30.prime.com
>     Here is my question: How do you insure that you get most of the
> yeast/starter into your wort without it staying in your starter
> bottle?
    
Give the bottle a swirl before you pour it into the primary.    
    

> From: Jarrod J Loewen <jloper at ccu.umanitoba.ca>
> Subject: Yeast lysing(sp?)

Good to hear from another Canadian, eh? Yeast lysis is affected both by time
and temperature. A rule of thumb is max. 14 days in primary if you're doing a
single-stage fermentation. Racking too late risks oxidation. Once your beer is
in the secondary you can relax on the order of months since the yeast carried
over in suspension is healthy. I'd recommend bottling soon unless you
fermented this batch at cooler temperatures ie. 60F instead of the average
68-72F.


> From: Jeff Frane <70670.2067 at compuserve.com>
> Subject: Some Tips
> Can anybody tell me why my postings take an extra day to get in the digest;
> I'm sending them via CompuServe mail, true, but a few months ago this didn't
> cause any noticeable delay. ???

I've noticed this recently as well. It seems that the digest is limited to
approximately 50K per issue. Postings appear to be put into a queue as they are
received and cut off at 50K (look at the date/time received in the headers). 
This is another good reason to get the flame noise down to zero.


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Date:     Tue, 26 Nov 91 9:47:50 EST
From: Jeanne Sova ASQNC-TAB-IS 5320 <jsova at APG-9.APG.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  beer life

yar dudes and dudettes,

can anyone tell me the life span of the average bottle of microbrew?
like how long will it last in my refrigerator before it starts to
taste bad?  thanks.

jeanne

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Date:    Tue, 26 Nov 91 10:08:16 EST
From: IO10676 at maine.maine.edu
Subject: The Perfect Beer Bottles

In response to my de-labeling question, Michael Hall writes:


Maybe someone else out there in email-land knows of the perfect
brand of bottle to use: one that is dark brown to protect from
light, sturdy to protect from breakage by the avid bottler,
covered with a label which falls off when looked at, and filled
with an inexpensive beer which is very good to drink ;)

Personally, I think that the three brands that I have mentioned
come pretty close to achieving this, with the exception that
the St. Pauli Girls and Becks are green and the Dos Equis are
label-clingers and a little less sturdy.


    I don't have quite the perfect beer, but I have one that's
close.  The brand is Wisconsin Club, brewed by Huber, and availiable
in the upper midwest.  It has the following good points:

 - Sturdy dark brown bottles (12 oz bar bottles)

 - Labels come off so easily that the condensation on the outside of the
  bottle is often sufficient

 - CHEAP  (I've gotten it for $6/case!)

Main disadvantage is, as you might expect, the beer isn't that great.
But it's no worse than any other industrial swill, suitable for drinking
after mowing the lawn, etc.

Or, the TRUE perfect beer, by the preceding definition:  Homebrew!  :)


Sterling Udell
Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - Eastern Division


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 09:18:16 -0500
From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com>
Subject: Samuel Adams Cranberry Beer

> Greg Pryzby writes:
> For the Samuel Adams fans out there- their Holidays Classic 12 pak
> is now available.  You get 3 Boston Ale, 3 Boston Lager, 3 Winter
> Lager, 2 Lightship, and 1 Cranberry Lambic.

I hope that is Cranberry Lambic and not Cranberry Beer, and that is
Cranberry Lambic from 1990.  I tasted this year's Cranbery Beer on
draught, and it tastes like Samuel Adams Lager with cranberry juice
in it.  Bleechhh :-b  As you recall, last year I had their Cranberry
Lambic (and even their table cards called it a lambic) and it was 
great (make that GREAT :-) ).  A pink foamy head, the taste of fresh
soured milk and cranberries, and a deep red color.  This year, their
is little or no head, the color is a dull yellow/red/orange, it tastes
like someone added cranberry juice to the beer.  Actually, I tried 
that last year at home - added cranberry juice to beer - and it tasted
just like this year's catastrophe...  Even this year's table card says
it is a Cranberry Beer, brewed in the lambic style.  It's terrible :-p
When the waitress brought the beer, I gave her a look of surprise when
I saw the beer.  She said it was not as good as last year.  That was
an understatement if I ever heard one...

Sorry that you didn't get a chance to try their Cranberry Lambic - 1990
style.  Please pass along my sincerest regrets and condolences to
Samuel Adams on the passing away of a great brew...



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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 9:52:42 CST
From: jlf at poplar.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: sparge buckets

> If cost is a
> concern here, then the system that Charlie Papazian suggests, with two plastic
> buckets, is certainly a better solution. The buckets are cheap, and it only
> requires some long boring minutes with a drill to put an adequate number of
> holes in the upper bucket.


It is simpler, faster, and better to use a hot butter knife to make the holes.  
Drilled holes have little plastic curlycues that are impossible to clean
out and end up plugging some of the holes. A melted hole is neater.

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 09:59:53 CST
From: rak at mayo.EDU (Ron Karwoski)
Subject: Michael Jackson....

This past weekend myself and five other members of our homebrew club
had the pleasure of attending a homebrew tasting with Michael Jackson
in Minneapolis. Michael did all of the homebrew tasting but we had
our hands full tasting all of the brewpub's beer. Sherlock's Home
had their own bitter, scottish ale, stout, porter, lager, pale ale, and
light on tap. They also had a sweet and dry cider on tap (imported).
We missed the winter warmer (xmas beer) by a week. They also feature a
number of single malt scotches. The ales were all hand-drawn in the
English style. All the beers I  sampled were very tasty. The brews
were $3 for a 20 oz. pint. Minnesota doesn't have a surplus of brewpubs
but this one is definitely worth trying.

The Beer Hunter was a cogenial and entertaining fellow. His talk and
comments on the homebrew were well recieved and he signed books for
a couple of hours. Does anyone know how this guy got his job and if he
needs an assistant?

I'm also dying to try a can of Guinness. Local distributors say it will
be a while before it makes to Minnesota, and even longer to Rochester.
I'll be in Chicago soon and hopefully I can find it there.
Ron Karwoski                   
rak at bru.mayo.edu

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 09:02:26 MST
From: mastors at Central.Sun.COM (Bob Mastors)
Subject: faucet adapter

Williams Brewing sells a faucet adapter system that can
be used to quickly add and remove a bottle washer in
addition to other stuff.

Does anyone out there have one of these and if so:

	a) does it leak
	b) is it easy to snap connectors on and off the adapter
	c) do you like it


thanks,
Bob

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 9:53:29 CST
From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Bottle Recommendation

In Digest #768, Michael L. Hall writes:

> Maybe someone else out there in email-land knows of the perfect
> brand of bottle to use: one that is dark brown to protect from
> light, sturdy to protect from breakage by the avid bottler,
> covered with a label which falls off when looked at, and filled
> with an inexpensive beer which is very good to drink ;)

    I can recommend a type of bottle that fits this bill almost perfectly.  I
use IBC brand Root Beer bottles for much of my homebrew.  The bottles are
brown, sturdy, and have no labels at all on them from the start.  It costs less
than cheap beer and my 4-year-old son is all too glad to empty them for me.  I
have also seen A&W Root Beer in this type of bottle but have never used them.
This is excellent root beer too.  We used to say that IBC stood for "It's
Better'n Coke".  I bottled my last batch entirely in these bottles.

- --
Guy D. McConnell                   
"All I need is a pint a day..."




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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 08:41:44 PST
From: b_turnbaugh at csc32.enet.dec.com
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #768 (November 26, 1991)

 I have a ques for all you master brewers out there!! Last Feb I made two
diff batches of a Chimay Ale. I cultured the yeast/bacteria from a couple
of bottles a couple of diff times. Since then I have made a couple of British
ales (went all grain!!) and they have been infected (&$%#&*%#). They have a
white ring around the bottle neck just like the Chimay. My question is did

the bacteria take over my brewing basement?? I have been using Wyeast 1098
british ale yeast with a small starter and It seems to take a couple of days
to get going. The only time my wort is exposed is when I use the wort chiller
for about 15 min, then I pitch and cover. It really makes me mad that all my
all grain batches are turning out infected!! Should I start making quart
starters instead of 10oz starters?? Should I get down on my hands an knees
and scrub everything with clorox?? Thanks in advance for any advice!!! Bob

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 10:51:31 EST
From: tix!roman at uunet.UU.NET (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #767 (November 25, 1991)

Anyone have a source (perferably in the NE NJ area) for carboys?  I've seen
a few places that will sell them mailorder but would prefer to go pick one
instead of trusting the shipper to a big piece of glass.  I've called
just about every bottled water company in the area and they all use
plastic.

_____________________________________________________________________
Dan Roman           |     ///          Internet:  roman_d at timplex.com
Timeplex Inc.       | \\\///              GEnie:  D.ROMAN1
Woodcliff Lake, NJ  |  \XX/ Only AMIGA!      Homebrew is better brew.
=====================================================================

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 09:12:13 MST
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: SA matrix

I tried sending this via email and it bounced.  No bother, though, 'cause I
figure it's of interest to the group...

Doug,
  I'd really be interested in your SA matrix, and I'm sure others would be
also (there must be others like me %^).  I'd say post it to the hbd, but if
you don't, please send me a copy.  Thanks!
Norm



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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 12:26:05 EST
From: Arthur Delano <ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Removing Bottle Labels


mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall) says:
] Maybe someone else out there in email-land knows of the perfect
brand of bottle to use: one that is dark brown to protect from 
light, sturdy to protect from breakage by the avid bottler, 
covered with a label which falls off when looked at, and filled 
with an inexpensive beer which is very good to drink ;)

In my experience, bottles from the Whitbread Brewery in the UK (Whitbread
Ale, Mackeson's Stout) are gloriously heavy and thick, a rich dark brown in
color, and the labels peel off easily after twenty minutes of soaking in
hot water.  In addition, one of the beers (either the ale or the stout) never
seems to leave a moldy scum, so the first-time washing out is made much easier
as well.

The only real disadvantages are that the beers _are_ expensive, and that not
enough people around here have the class to drink the stuff, so when I buy
bottles from the package store there aren't many Whitbread bottles to be had.
But they fit all your other criteria.  If you decide to get a lot of Whit-
bread, I'll help you empty the bottles.  (:->)

AjD             ajd at itl.itd.umich.edu

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 09:29:05 -0800
From: jimb at mips.com (Jim Bergman)
Subject: partyball

A friend of mine is having a small party and he has bought a party ball
to use for refreshments. He said he would give me the partyball after it
was consumed for my homebrewing use. My question is, where do I find the
rubber seals for it or the batch-latch type cap to re-use this partyball?
I'm interested in fixing it to add a CO2 cartridge or CO2 tank, if it
doesn't cost too much. I plan to go to a soda keg set-up at a later time
after the xmas bills are paid off.


Any ideas,

Thanks,

Jim Bergman(jimb at mips.com)

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 09:37:56 pst
From: Ted Manahan <tedm at hpcvcbp.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Homebrew Store
Full-Name: Ted Manahan

I want to add my comments on the Homebrew Store and its owner Pat. My
only order from this store so far has been as a result of an add in
Zymergy for a 7.5 gallon SS pot. I called to order the pot, and Pat
talked me into buying a King Cooker and two beer kits too! Quite a
salesman, he is.

The whole deal cost me $150. I'm pretty happy with the stuff. The SS pot
is a little thin, but that's what I expected. The cooker really does the
job - it gets as hot as I feel comfortable with. The kits are high
quality. I got a partial mash S. German wheat beer (with the special
clove flavored yeast) and a full extract pale ale.

Prices are good. Pat likes to talk and has opinions on the 'best' way to
brew. He does seem to know of what he speaks.

The Homebrew Store doesn't take Visa. You have to mail your order in.
Pat says this keeps prices down. He could be right.

Ted Manahan
tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
503/750-2856

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Date:         26 Nov 91 11:36:41 EST
From: Dave Barrett <DAVE.BARRETT at OFFICE.WANG.COM>
Subject:      more on de-labeling


Greatings and Happy Thanksgiving!

On the recent question about removing bottles labels.  I don't use TSP or
ammonia,  I soak the bottles in your standard bleach sterilizing solution
for 1 or 2 days.  By then most labels have fallen off.  What doesn't fall
off I can easily get off in about 3 seconds with a 1 1/2" wide putty knife.
Any remaining glue then comes off easily with a plastic scrub pad.  I've
found that this works well even with those nasty foil labels.  But no I
have never tried it on a Dos Equises (sp?) bottle so your milage may vary.

As to the recent flame war.  I have grown as tired of those who have repsonded
to JS with flames, as I have JS.  I heartily endorse the "no flames / but if
you must flame'em directly with email"  policy.

And while I'm here, THANKS ROB!

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Date:         Tue, 26 Nov 91 13:11:23 EST
From: Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      The Perfect Brand of Bottle (#HBD 726)

Michael Hall asks for the perfect brand of bottle - brown, sturdy, easy to
delabel and filled with inexpensive, tasty beer.  I don't know where you
live, Michael, but if you can get Yuengling Porter I think you'll be very
happy with both the bottles and their contents.  Cheers -- Jean

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 10:28:55 PST
From: smithey at fjorgyn.css.gov (Brian Smithey)
Subject: malting and barley


Beware, lots of questions ahead.

I brew all-grain, and purchase either "Klages" or "British Pale"
malt (that's all I know about it) from my favorite mail order
supply shop.

A few recent postings have mentioned Klages vs. other malts, DMS
production of different malts, Summer/Winter barley, Ireks brand
malt, etc.  Are there any barley experts out there that can
summarize the characteristics of these different brewing malts?
What varieties are used by the malting companies that we're likely
to run across (names like Breiss, Great Western, M&F, Ireks, etc.)?

Thanks,

Brian
- --
Brian Smithey
smithey at esosun.css.gov  -  uunet!seismo!esosun!smithey


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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 11:04:58 PST
From: keng at ic.MENTORG.COM (Ken Giles)
Subject: Re: Removing bottle labels

In HBD #768 Michael L. Hall writes:
> Maybe someone else out there in email-land knows of the perfect
> brand of bottle to use: one that is dark brown to protect from 
> light, sturdy to protect from breakage by the avid bottler, 
> covered with a label which falls off when looked at, and filled 
> with an inexpensive beer which is very good to drink ;)

That would be Full Sail Amber Ale. Well, it's not that inexpensive and probably 
only available on the west coast.

kg.

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 13:00 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: window screen

Roger writes:
>Good, useful, non-metalic plastic-coated fiberglass window screen is

I'm a bit confused here.  I thought the idea was to put this into the
bottom of a stainless steel keg so you can heat the mash on a burner.
The plastic coating Roger suggests might be a good idea for a lauter
tun to be used for a decoction mash but not for step infusion.  I,
personally, would avoid plastic (recent heat trasfer arguments notwithstanding)
so close to the burner.  I still contend that "common" windowscreen
should be avoided, but (as someone mentioned) brass screen is available.
Al.

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 11:06:25 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Favorite Bottles


From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)


>Maybe someone else out there in email-land knows of the perfect
>brand of bottle to use: one that is dark brown to protect from 
>light, sturdy to protect from breakage by the avid bottler, 
>covered with a label which falls off when looked at, and filled 
>with an inexpensive beer which is very good to drink ;)


My personal favorite bottles are from Anchor. They are sturdy,
brown, filled with good beer, and the labels come off easily.
I guess the only drawback is that it's not a cheap beer, but 
then life's too short........

Many German beers come in those 1/2 liter bottles, which look like
miniature inverted cylindro-conical fermenters. They are a very 
handy size, since bottling 5 gallons requires only 35-40 of these,
instead of 50-55 12oz'ers. Some come with foil labels and are really
a drag to remove, the paper ones come off pretty easily however.
On the down side, these bottles often aren't accepted in competitions.

I've found that whatever nasty chemical I use to remove labels, it
gets easier if you use hot water. The glue softens more quickly at 
higher temps.


"Just say NO to flames"

CR

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 14:18:47 -0500
From: danhahn at ecn.purdue.edu (Dan Hahn)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #768 (November 26, 1991)



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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 91 11:33:18 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Cost of Kegs

From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)

>Subject : Kegs

>Jeff in HBD#767 raises some important ethical issues that are 
>worthy of serious consideration...........

>These kegs cost the breweries $15, and
>they make draft outlets pay a $20 deposit for each. The latter (at least
>down here) charges us $25 for each if purchased empty. 

I can't recall the source (Maybe Mom told me ;-), but I remember hearing 
that it cost AB over $200 for each empty keg, and they charged much
smaller deposits so that people would still buy draft beer. The theory
being that $20 was enough to motivate people to return kegs because there
wasn't much else you could do with them anyway. Enter the homebrewer.

Is this complete BS?

Given the expense of the raw materials ($tainless $teel), and the fact that
there are several welds and a valve or two, can kegs actually be manufactured 
for only $15, even by the bizillion??

Enquiring minds just gotta know,

CR


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Date: Tue Nov 26 12:33:07 1991
From: larryba at microsoft.com
Subject: Re: De-DMS'ing my brew

1. How do I know it is DMS?  Well, in small quantities it smells like
   malt.  In larger quantities (like just after a pour, while the head is
   still expanding) it smells like creamed corn or when really bad,
   stewed cabbage/vegetables.

2. There seems to be some confusion regarding malts.  One person
   indicates that Klages (actually Great Western Malting Pale Malt) has
   *less* DMS potential vs continental malts.  George Fix specifically
   mentioned continental malts as having more sulpher compounds and gave
   me some pointers on how to reduce their influence (a: hops, b: keep
   kettle vented as long as temp is > 150f). Steven Russle points me in
   the opposite direction.  Bottom line is that I plan on doing, not in
   the near future, two experiments:

   o re-do the klages pilsner and see if venting the kettle during
     the steeps (or eliminate the steep) does the trick.

   o Get some german pilsner malts and see if that does the trick.

   Given that the GWM pale malt is so cheap when purchased in bulk, I am
   somewhat motivated in trying to make it work. Actually trying to make
   Klages work might be futile: already my "german Pils" made with klages
   taste reminiscent of Bud.  Ack!

3. A week ago I posted an article about an experiment in my refer: some
   starter wort spontaneously fermented and had a unusual smell.  Well, I
   finally identified the smell: BUTTER BITS!  Yikes, pure diacytal. What
   a smell.  Now, if I rememeber correctly, from Dave Miller ( TCHOHB)
   that Diacytal is primarily a yeast byproduct (as apposed to DMS that
   can be produced by bacteria).  Anyone know if there are specific
   bacterial strains that produce diacytal?  I am mainly interested in
   ruling out nasty bacterial infections that I need to gard against in
   my kitchen.

Cheers!


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Date: 25 Nov 91 09:40:17
From: Bob Hettmansperger <Bob_Hettmansperger at klondike.bellcore.com>
Subject: Re- Samuel Adams Holiday Cl

          Re: Samuel Adams Holiday Classics

I bought this package with much enthusiasm, primarily because of the Cranberry
Lambic.  Having never tried a lambic before and REALLY liking Sam Adams (both
Ale and Lager, although I prefer the Lager), I anxiously got the beer home and
waited for the perfect moment to drink the lambic.  Well, I wasn't impressed. 
In fact, the taste reminded me of what my mouth tastes like the morning after
having too much the night before.  What went wrong?  Is this a typical lambic? 
I also found the Lightship to be pretty watery (but then again it IS a light
beer).  Well, at least I got to enjoy the Ales and Lagers.

Cheers,

 -Bob



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #769, 11/27/91
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