FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Cleaning Copper tubing (wbt)
  o2,spree (Russ Gelinas)
  strike temp  (John Freeman)
  cider / bass ale (Brian Bliss)
  Hangovers (MIKE LIGAS)
  Fermentation and surface area. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  MESS (DAVE)
  sending furrin currency (chuck)
  Mashing questions/answers (joshua.grosse)
  Re: Nuevo Kegger, misc. (larryba)
  Re: oxidation still (Jay Hersh)
  advice for a new kegger (Marty Albini)
  Homebrew Suppliers/Mail order in or to Sweden?? (key)
  Re: oxidation (korz)
  Re: More on Oxidation (Walter H. Gude)
  Re: Diacetyl (aka butterscotch) (korz)
  Pitching at high krausen (bryan)
  Prohibition (MIKE LIGAS)
  re: Oxidation  of wort (John A. Palkovic)
  historical homebrew (Robb Holmes)
  Mashes & Spigots (Jeff Frane)
  Lurking no more... (Glenn Tinseth)
  cooler/lautertun (chip upsal)
  Dry Hopping (caitrin lynch)
  Pressure cooker... (GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  04-Jan-1992 1436)


Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jan 92 8:47:45 EST
From: wbt at cbema.att.com
Subject: Cleaning Copper tubing


I recall having read many moons ago in these august electronic pages a
number of techniques for cleaning new copper tubing.  Much was said about
remants of the drawing lubricants and other vernicious nasties inside the
copper.  

I've just built a counterflow chiller and would appreciate it if anyone
with advice on cleaning the copper tubing would send me email.  

Also, I'm interested in which sanitizing agents people prefer for use with
copper.  How do you sanitize your wort chillers?

I'll summarize and post in a week or so.  Thanks!

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker       AT&T Network Systems - Columbus            cbema!wbt
Quality Engineer      Network Wireless Systems       wbt at cbnews.att.com


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Date:    Fri, 3 Jan 1992 9:56:44 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: o2,spree

Bob D., who came back from skiing with 100 lbs. of grain (which is better
than 100 lbs. of pain), said, pedantically (?), that it is ok to add oxygen
for a number of hours after pitching.  In fact, there was an article in 
Zymurgy last year (?) that indicated that the ferment will go better if
more O2 is added at about 8 hours after pitching.  My guess is that at that
time most of the O2 has been used up for yeast reproduction, but the colony
has not yet reached its optimum number of cells.  A question I have is what
will happen to those cells that have already gone anearobic?  Will they
go back to aerobic activity?

Ok, I finally got to go beer-hunting in Boston (btw, what are the episodes
of the Beer Hunter; I seem to be missing one).  Commonwealth for a bitter
and a Winter Warmer.  Excellent. The WW had a flavor/aroma of maple tree
flowers after a spring rain (!).  The closest thing to nectar-beer I've 
experienced.  My guess is maple syrup *and* honey were used, and perhaps
something like an aromatic cascade hop, ala Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.  Then
to the Sunset Bar and Grill.  Go there.  It's beer heaven.  41 taps.  200+
bottles.  Anchor Xmas Ale on tap.  Ginger, spices, yum.  Sam Adams cream
stout on tap.  Coffee, chocolate, creamy, yum.  Dab Alt on tap.  Can you
say malt?  Is the only way to get that German malt flavor to use genuine
German malt (Vienna?).  I'd really like to try to make a similar brew.  BTW,
if you do go to the Sunset, watch out for the cellar Worts (and BFDers).  
Finished the day with Guinness and Harpoon ale at the Plough and Stars.  A
very successful hunt, I'd say!

Russ

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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 92 10:36:31 CST
From: jlf at poplar.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: strike temp 

> 
> Following is my proposed procedure, along with some questions,
> please let me know what you think.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
>   1) Strike dry grain with enough 160F water to bring mash to 153F.
>       Stir and let rest until conversion.
> 

That will take 13 lbs of water (over a gallon and a half) for each 
pound of grain.  Here's the algebra.

Let g be pounds of grain at 60F
Let w be pounds of water at 160F

	60g + 160w = (g + w) * 153
	60g + 160w = 153g + 153w
	        7w = 93g
		 w = 93/7 g  ie. about 13 1/2 pounds


I find that a strike temp of about 180 is good, requiring a quart
of water per pound of grain.

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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 92 10:52:09 CST
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: cider / bass ale


Cidery flavor is typically caused by using too much corn sugar
(tough I doubt that I the problem in your your case, Johnathon).
It does disappear over time.  A gave a friend of mine a few
samples of my first batches, and hae gave some of them back
to me recently (after about 8 months).  They had definitely
improved from cidery & cloudy to crystal clear & excellent!

Someone wanted to try a bass ale - here is a recipe for
what was meant to be a stronger belgian ale, but that was
back in the days when I was getting shitty extraction rate
(I still am - but now I adjust for it :-), so multiply
the grain weights by 2/3 to 3/4 (or 1/2, means it's too
strong for bass) if you get better efficiency:

10 lb pale ale malt
3 lb munich malt
2 lb wheat malt
1 lb brown sugar
wyeast german ale yeast (recultured)
42 g hallerau leaf 75 min
20 g fuggle pellets 75 min
17 g hallertau leaf 45 min
14 g fuggle pellets 45 min
7 g hallertau leaf (finish)

It was a little stronger than bass, and a little hoppier until
it aged a month or two.  OG 1.065, GF 1.021, fermented room temp.
For bass, use 1 lb brown sugar, for Old Peculiar, use 1.5-2 lb.
For Belgian Ale - heck if I know.

bb

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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1992 11:26 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Hangovers

Happy '92 HDers! Some of you may remember that there was a little thread a 
while back on hangovers and how to best minimize them (short of not over-
indulging). We all know the value of water to counter dehydration. I 
mentioned the possible contribution of B-vitamins and the sugar fructose and 
a few other readers mentioned the need for potassium rich foods like bananas 
or tomatoes. The following is a report from _LONGEVITY_ , Jan. 1992, pg.16.
(I admit that this magazine has alot of hokey stuff in it but occasionally 
something shows up which catches my attention).

 ****************************************************************************
                     Lethal Hangovers Genuine Relief (?)
                          (I added the "?" - Mike)

No one says a hangover is lethal, but the ills you suffer after a New Year's 
Eve celebration or another night on the town can make you feel like you've 
lopped years off your life. Now, biochemist David Blass, Ph.D., technical 
director of Blass AG, a New Jersey-based biotech company, believes he has 
invented a cure for this all too-common condition.

While one of the hangover pill's chief ingredients is an analgesic like 
aspirin or ibuprofen, for simple pain relief, what makes the pill more 
effective than plain aspirin, Blass explains, is three ingredients known to 
help the body cope with alcohol. One is niacinamide (part of the vitamin B 
complex), which helps the liver metabolize alcohol. The other two are 
fructose, which helps carry niacinamide to the brain, and potassium, an 
electrolyte that heavy drinking can flush out of the body.
 .......
 ****************************************************************************
 
The article then goes on to describe a poorly controlled study in which 
volunteers (who got free cocktails!!) were either given the "cure" pill or a 
pill with less niacinamide in it. Those with Dr. Blass' pill said they felt 
better. One glaring ommision is any comparison to those who took no pill or 
subjects who took analgesic only (in various doses). Furthermore I am suspect
of the objectivity of Blass AG to test a product of their own which has such 
obvious marketability. Furthermore, what's the point in using fructose to 
help "carry niacinamide to the brain" when niacinamide is needed in the 
liver? Nonetheless, the information was interesting and leaves me with the 
impression that nobody knows completely what is going on physiologically or 
biochemically during a hangover.

                                - Mike -


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Date: 3 Jan 92 12:20:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Fermentation and surface area.

A few issues ago, Chris Shenton wondered why a brew in a full 5 gallon 
carboy fermented at a different rate than one in a not-full 7 gallon one.

I recall George Fox mentioning, maybe a month or so ago, that a study done 
in the late 1940's showed that surface area bore a significant, (I think it 
was significant), relationship to fermentation rate and quality.  I seem to 
remember he said th at a larger surface area, up to a point, was a good 
thing.  This would imply that a carboy that is not filled beyone the point 
where the neck begins to narrow would produce a better quality 
fermentation.


George, could you comment on this?

If it is true that a not-full carboy produces better fermentation, then 
those who believe in the blowoff method are faced with some dilemas.

Dan


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Date:         Fri, 03 Jan 92 11:49:56 CST
From: DAVE <C05705DA at WUVMD.Wustl.Edu>
Subject:      MESS

BEING THAT I AM A NEW HOMEBREWING APPRENTICE, I HAVE ENCOUNTERED A PROBLEM
THAT HAS ME FLAT OUT STUMPED.  I HAD THE MISFORTUNE OF A BOIL-OVER WHEN I
WAS DESTRACTED FOR A FEW SECONDS.  NOW, I HAVE THIS NICE AND UGLY BLACK MESS
ON MY STOVE THAT I CANNOT GET OFF.  DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS
OTHER THAN BUYING A NEW STOVE?  MY WIFE *REALLY* WANTS TO KNOW.

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Date: Fri Jan  3 12:54:11 1992
From: synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: sending furrin currency

In a private communication, John DeCarlo pointed out the difficulties involved 
in joining CAMRA because membership payment must be done in Pounds Sterling.  
There are two ways to send foreign currencies in the mail.  Most major banks 
will sell you an International Money Order in just about any popular currency, 
but will probably add a service charge.  The easiest thing though, is to send 
your credit card number and a signed authorization, for example: 

	I authorize CAMRA to charge fourteen pounds 
	to my GoofyCharge account #1234567890.

	Signed, Elmer Fudd

Credit cards generally get an excellent exchange rate, something to keep in
mind when travelling overseas.

Anybody know of CAMRA-like organizations on the continent?  I am especially
interested in joining Dutch or Belgian beer societies.

- -----
Chuck Cox
SynchroSystems
chuck at synchro.com


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Date: Friday, 3 January 1992 1:24pm ET
From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com
Subject: Mashing questions/answers


Randy at rdr.com asked some questions in #792, which I tried to answer via
e-mail.  My mail bounced back today, and this was the content:

> The two books I'm referring to are Papizan's "Complete Joy of
> Homebrewing" and Dave Line's "Brewing Beers Like the Ones You Buy".

A really good source for mashing information and far more detailed technique
than Papazian (for mashing) is Miller's "The Complete Handbook of Home
Brewing."

I don't have a copy with me, but I'll try to answer your questions as best as
I can from memory and from my two, count 'em, two all-grain batches.  Of
course, this is after 6 years of extract based brewing.


> 1) In Line's book, his procedure for a step mash suggests doing the
> "protein rest" or first stage at 55C (131F), but Papaizan suggests
> 50C (122F).  Who's right? Does it really matter?

Miller says that a 131 F rest will tend to produce more protease enzymes, so
that your larger protien molecules get broken into smaller ones.  Result?
Less chill haze, more mouth-feel and head retention.  He also says that he
never did a side-by-side 122/131 comparison, so he's not sure if the
homebrewer would notice the difference.  My first batch was an altbier with
german 2-row, and I used 131 F.  I also used Irish Moss, and the beer came out
quite clear.


> 2) The recipe I'm using from Line's book (for a light pilsner, a
> Heinekin clone), he calls for 5.5 lbs of "lager malt".  What kind of
> malt is this? 2-row or 6-row?  Unmodified, modified, or highly
> modified?

Lager malt is a color definition only.  Line was British, and in both the UK
and Germany they only have 2-row, as, I believe, 6-row is a north american
species.  All brewing malt should be highly modified.  Undermodified malt is
usually a mistake.  You can tell by chewing a grain.  The test (according to
Miller is "chewy/steely".  Chewy, edible malt is well modified. Undermodified
will chew like gravel.  The "base" malts you'll use will usually be either
"lager" malt or "pale" malt.  Use the pale for english style single temp
mashes, lager for everything else.

> 3) In Papaizan's book, he says that 2-row barley has a LOWER enzyme
> content than 6-row.  But in my catalogue for the Home Brewery, they
> tell me that 2-row barley has HIGHER enzyme content than 6-row.
> Line's book didn't mention it.  What's the deal?

Miller agrees with Papazian, though he also says that 2-row American Klages
(and no, I have no idea if "Klages" is a brand-name or a subspecies)
approaches the enzymatic power of 6-row.  American breweries like to use 6-row
because the high-enzyme content makes it easy to mash adjunct starches.  Me, I
use all-malt, so I never worry about enzyme content.  6-row is more difficult
to crush than 2-row due to the large amount of husk material, and it makes for
a more tannic/harsh taste than 2-row (according to Miller).

> 4) In the same recipe in Line's book, he calls for 14oz. of "flaked
> rice".  My local home brew shop has rice extract solids.  How much of
> this extract would correspond to 14oz of flaked rice?  (I understand
> that the rice solids go into the boil while the flaked rice goes into
> the mash).  How about using regular white rice or rice grits?

I would boil your white rice to "gelatinize" it, as these brewing books
recommend, and then use it.  I have no idea how much would be needed to match
a Line recipe.  And you'll want to add it to the mash in order to convert the
starch to sugar, with whatever enzymatic barley (6-row or 2-row Klages) you've
chosen.


> 5) For the second stage of the mash (the actual starch conversion),
> I've heard of times anywhere from 15 minutes to 1.5 hours.  I
> understand that this can change depending on what kind of beer you
> make and what temperature you mash at, but what's a good rule of
> thumb?  What's the usefulness of using tincture of iodine to test for
> starch conversion?

It varies, yes it does.  The test is *very* useful, so you can determine when
conversion is complete.  Miller doesn't bother with the test, he just mashes
for 90 minutes.  I have better things to do with my time, and the test works
*great*.

What, no sparging questions?  That's where I've had all my questions.

Find Miller's book.  I think its a great book for those who are just about to
jump into mashing.  Papazian is easier to read but doesn't go into as great a
depth as I think one needs to understand what's happening when going
all-grain.  I like and use both books.

    -Josh Grosse-   jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com

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Date: Fri, 03 Jan 92 10:43:59 PST
From: larryba at microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Nuevo Kegger, misc.

CR Saikley sez that melanoidins are a combination of proteins and
carbo's. If that is true, then it is unlikely that the enzymes in
Malt will break them down into simpler sugars.  If my guess is
correct, then it is moot whether you mash your specialty malts or
dump them in near the end of the mash.  You will still get the body
and sweetness.  Any comment/controversy over this?  What do commercial
brewers do?  Anyone know?

Jay Hersh, and others, have indicated that melanoidins are a major
source of the "malt" smell/taste.  If that is true, and emperically it
seems to be: munich and vienna malts or high kilned malts seem to
have more "malt" flavor, then using Cara-Pils shouldn't really add
much to the maltiness of a beer. Instead use low L crystal.  Heck,
crystal is really the same as cara-pils - just the degree of
carmelization is modified.  My most recent batch of Pale Ale had a
good helping of 16L crystal (HB carastan to be exact) and it seems
very nice.  Sweetness and malty without that carmel taste
overpowering things.  I used to use a lot of 70L xtal.  Now I am
moving more towards low L xtal + chocolate and a little 40 or 70L
for color.

For the fellow kegging: the only advantage to pin lock, that I have
seen, is that every so often some 3.5gal cornelius kegs are
surplused.  Since I have all firestones (pin lock) I have been
reluctant to pick up some small ball lock kegs.  However, Foxx sells
pin and ball lock nipples for both style kegs so it is really only an
additional $11 or so to convert either style to the other.  Beware,
however that only Firestone pin or ball lock nipples will fit on
Firestone kegs and vs.  However the Quick Disconnects are compatible
across lines.  Now, if I could get some used cornelius kegs for $5...
Another consideration: Firestones tend to be squater and shorter.
Sometimes that is an issue when trying to shoehorn kegs into a refer.

Also, for the kegger - forget a counter pressure filler.  What a
waste of time/$. Use a 10" piece of hose (tygon) attatched to your
tap.  Drop the keg pressure to 3-4lb and fill away keeping the end
of the tubing below the surface of the beer.  If you are doing
Ale, cool your keg to around 40-50f first.  You can fill you bottles
up in about 20sec with minimal/no foaming. It is low tech but it
works very, very well.  You might have to adjust the keg pressure for
best results.  An advantage of a little foaming is that the head space
is guarenteed to have no O2.

An interesting observation: Even when I fill a bottle with well cond-
itioned beer, storing it seems to make the carbonation even better.
Anyone else notice this?

        - Larry Barello


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Date: Fri, 03 Jan 92 14:11:46 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: oxidation still


Brian asks...

>My question is the following:  Consider the popular extract boiling
>setup, where you boil 3 or so gallons of wort, and then dump the
>whole thing (while hot) through a strainer to remove the hops and
>foreign particles into a funnel and finally, into a carboy with
>around 2 gal. of cold water in it (containing a lot of O2, unless
>you boiled it first).  Will this oxidize the wort?

The answer here is a big yes... Chilling the wort before aerating it on the way
into the fermenter is a key step...., this 212F post-boil wort *will*
oxidize, often causing a visible color change, as some people have noted.


In way of a little additional comment on Thom M's question about possibly
oxidizing the results of a partial mash by straining, I wanted to point out
that many European Breweries, notably Pilsener Urquell among them, use a system
where  the sweet wort that goes from the mash tun into the boiling tank
is drained from the mash tun via a number of spigots. The brewer controls the
flow rate out of the mash tun by the number of spigots opened. These spigots
run the sweet wort into a trough, where is collects and then flows into
the boiling tank. I have seen this in operation. Yes the sweet wort gets
aerated here , on it's way from the mash tun to the boiling tank. PU does a
triple decoction, so this happens 3 times, yet there wasn't a hint of oxidation
in the fresh Pilsener Urquell.

I think perhaps too much worrying is being done here. The temperature of
post boil wort is typically 40F higher than the sparge temps Thom cited, 
The rate of the oxidation reaction is temperature dependent, so I think at the
lower temperature of sparging it is sufficiently slower that the amount
of oxidation components produced are not critical before this liquid reaches
the boil, and of course as I had mentioned this volume is diluted into the 
full wort volume. 

A couple of people had responded to me on this, so I hope this provides 
both a commercial reference point as for why I don't think it's critical, 
and a reasonable homebrewing reference point for my beliefs. And yes as CR
points out none of this has to do with presence/abscence of hops, I don't think
I ever stated this, but perhaps some read this into my reply.

>Bob Devine
>[who just came back from a skiing vacation with 100 pounds of grain...]

OK Bob, I give up, how do you ski with 100 pounds of grain?? Does the grain 
get it's own skis?? Or is the challenge to ski while holding it??


 - JaH


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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 92 11:37:59 PST
From: Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com>
Subject: advice for a new kegger

> From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu>
> 
> First, on the difference between pin-lock and ball-lock.  I know that one
> means Coke and one means Pepsi.  Other than this, is there a major difference? 

	Not really. You can sort of force a ball-lock fitting
onto the wrong spigot if you're strong enough and it's drunk
out (this is handy for artificial carbonation, but not
absolutely necessary). Since I buy my kegs used, I just went
for whatever I could get a steady supply of.

> Second, I haven't (yet) gotten a second fridge--although I've been scanning
> the want ads (got to have something to lager in, right?).  Consequently, I'm
> looking towards one of those cooler gadgets that cools the beer in-line.  

	These are great for picnics but terrible for
dispensing at home...

>  Jim uses copper, which seems to me to be easiest and cheapest, but
> Teri says to use stainless steel because copper will "react with beer and
> cause oxidation if it sits in the coils" (p. 39).  Now...there will rarely be
> a day that I don't drink some homebrew, but certainly the beer will be sitting
> around overnight, and I'll be dadgummed if I'm going to clean the lines every
> night.  

	You'll run out of ice, too, and you have to refill the
damned thing every night. The beer that sits inside gets too
cold, and the beer that hasn't got in yet is too warm. Here's
what I do: I store a freshly-brewed batch in five gallon kegs,
then transfer into a three gallon keg (two of which fit in 
the fridge without displacing too much of the other contents)
as soon as I'm ready to dispense. The three gallon kegs are
hard to find, so I only need to have two this way. Two brews
on tap, and I didn't have to shell out (or find room) for a
dedicated fridge.

	When I take some to a party, I just yank it out of the
fridge and take it along (I give each keg a shot of CO2 once
in a while to keep the pressure up, so I don't have to keep a
CO2 line hooked up all the time, even when the kegs leave the
fridge).

> Finally, I'm thinking of getting a counter-pressure bottle filler.  Foxx sells
> the counter-pressure bottle filler for $21.75, but I don't think this comes
> with the appropriate tubing, which is another $12.25.  

	I've got one you can have for five bucks.

	The Foxx setup is junk. You could do better in your
garage, and it wouldn't cost as much. DeFalco's sells one I've
heard good things about (713 523-8154) but it costs more, and
frankly I haven't had much use for bottles lately, so I
haven't bought one.
 					--martya

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Date: Fri, 03 Jan 92 17:13:32 EST
From: key at cs.utk.edu
Subject: Homebrew Suppliers/Mail order in or to Sweden??

I've got a friend who moved to Sweden and was just getting
ready to start homebrewing.  He's asking for advice on companies
that'll do mail order internationally.  Alternatively, are there
folks out on the net with advice for a Swedish Homebrewer looking
for supplies?  Beer prices are outrageous (for a student) there.

Thanks,
Ken Key  (key at cs.utk.edu)
Univ. of Tennessee, Knoxville - CS Dept.

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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 92 18:00 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: oxidation

bb writes:
>My question is the following:  Consider the popular extract boiling
>setup, where you boil 3 or so gallons of wort, and then dump the
>whole thing (while hot) through a strainer to remove the hops and
>foreign particles into a funnel and finally, into a carboy with
>around 2 gal. of cold water in it (containing a lot of O2, unless
>you boiled it first).

I used to do this.   I don't recommend it.

> Will this oxidize the wort?

Yes.

>Does the oxidation
>occur while the wort passes through the strainer and funnel, or
>or only when the hot wort hits the surface of the water in the carboy,
>and foams up?

Both.

>Will the hot wort mixing with the cold oxygenated water
>oxidize the wort, or is this only a result of the inadvertent splashing
>that takes place? (i.e. should I boil the water in the carboy?)
>Should I cool the wort with a chiller down to 150F or so and then
>proceed as usual?  Should I make 5 gal. and cool it all down to 80F?

You have several options (listed in order of preference, IMHO):

1. Build or buy a chiller, make 5 gallons, chill down to 80F, aerate, pitch.

Note that when you do a full boil, not only are you safer sanitation-wise,
but also you get better boiling hop utilization (see the Hop issue of Zymurgy
for more info on hop utilization).  Also, the chiller will give you a better
cold break than option 3. The down side is that you need a big kettle and
you need a chiller.

2. Build or buy a chiller, pre-boil and chill 3 gallons of water, make up
2 gallons of wort, chill down to 80F, aerate both, mix, pitch.

The advantage here is you can get by with a 3.5 gallon kettle.  Again, the
chiller will give you a better cold break than option 3.  The down side is,
you need to be careful to keep two containers of 80F liquid sanitary instead
of one, you need a chiller and you get less hop utilization.

3. Pre-boil and chill 4 gallons of water in the fridge, put one in the
freezer 8 hours before brewing, make up 1.5 gallons of wort, gently pour
the gallon from the freezer into the kettle, gently add another from the
fridge (now you should be pretty close to 80F), aerate as you pour into
the fermenter, top up with cooled pre-boiled water (aerating also), pitch.

The advantage here is you don't need a big kettle or a chiller.  The
down side is worse hop utilization, you don't get much of a cold break
and you increase your chances of picking-up an infection as you increase
the number of containers you use.

I started with the "popular" method, later moved up to option 3, and then
finally switched to option 1.  Each step was a significant increase in
final product quality.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 92 13:08:56 CST
From: whg at tellab5.tellabs.com (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Re: More on Oxidation



>>I would encourage brewers to avoid splashing hot wort, regardless of 
>>whether it is the dense first runnings from an all grain mash, or a weak 
>>crystal malt "tea". 

>He was doing a partial mash with grains. This preceeds the boil, so working
>under the assumption that the results of this partial mash get recombined with
>the wort and then boiled (that's how I've always done it, how bout you Thom??)
>then any oxygen introduced here will get boiled off...

The question seems to be how long will it take for the undesirable oxidation
effect to take effect.  If oxygen introduced to hot work immediately has a 
reaction with components of that wort than reboiling will not correct the 
problem.  However, if said oxidation effect take 5 to 10 minutes than hope-
fully promt boiling of the combined wort will drive off the oxygen before it
oxidizes the wort.

Can anyone comment of the time it takes for these undesirable oxidation effects.

Walter Gude




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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 92 18:23 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: Diacetyl (aka butterscotch)

aaron asks:
>I want a full-bodied, malty pale with a bit of fruityness.
>I have heard that some WYEAST product produces a butterscutch ester.
>Will this be a giid idea, .... if not which yeasts produce a fruity
>flavor (a la newcastle).

The butterscotch flavor is not from an ester, but from a chemical
compound called diacetyl and you are correct in that some yeasts are
more prone to making diacetyl than others.  According to Wyeast Labs,
their London Ale yeast (#1028) has a "slight diacetyl production."
Yeast produces more diacetyl when it is oxygen deficient, but too
little oxygen and you could get stuck fermentation, so you need to
be careful.  Yeast also breaks down diacetyl, so to leave more in your
beer, you can force your yeast our of suspension with finings in the
secondary (Isinglass or Gelatin will work for sure and maybe even
Polyclar), but again, too much and you won't have enough yeast to
carbonate.  Brewing is easy, but perfecting a recipe is difficult
unless you are very lucky and get close the first time around.

I'll leave it to others to comment on the brown sugar, molasses
(I've also read Demerara Sugar is used, which I recently found in Canada
and bought 3 kg, but haven't tried yet) and various malts, since
I haven't worked much with these in association with trying to duplicate
Newcastle or Bass.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 03 Jan 92 17:35:41 PST
From: bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com
Subject: Pitching at high krausen

This is one of those obvious things, but I didn't think of it in time.

Wort at high krausen has a lot of dissolved CO2 in it. So shaking it to
get the slurry off the bottom when pitching is not a very good idea.

Bryan

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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1992 22:46 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Prohibition

"Instead of giving money to found colleges to promote learning, why don't they
 pass a constitutional amendment prohibiting anybody from learning anything?
 If it works as good as the Prohibition one did, why, in five years we would
 have the smartest race of people on earth"
						-- Will Rogers


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Date: Wed, 01 Jan 92 17:25:23 -0600
From: john at warped.phc.org (John A. Palkovic)
Subject: re: Oxidation  of wort

In HOMEBREW Digest #793, kerl at cmack.b11.ingr.com (Dan Kerl) writes, in a
nice discussion about wort oxidation:

>The rate at which most chemical reactions proceed varies exponentially
>with temperature.

More correctly, the rate varies exponentially with the negative of the
inverse of the temperature.* Assuming that the chemical reaction
involved has an activation energy of 1 electron Volt (a guesstimate;
anyone know what the real number is?), then in cooling from 200 F to 70
F I calculate that the reaction rate will decrease by a factor of about
*2300*. Which is a large amount! Moral of the story - cool your wort
before you aerate it (and pitch immediately afterwards).


I apologize if this is too technical for this forum, but it is
interesting to see how much benefit one gets from cooling the wort.

* R.S. Drago, "Principles of Chemistry with Practical Perspectives,"
Allyn and Bacon, 1974.

- ---
john at warped.phc.org || palkovic at cs.niu.edu
I joined the League for Programming Freedom -- Send mail to league at prep.ai.mit.edu.

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Date:         Sat, 04 Jan 92 00:02:38 EST
From: Robb Holmes <RHOLMES at uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      historical homebrew

There have been some recent items about historical homebrew recipes, and
I thought this might be of interest to some.  If it has been covered in the
past, I apologize.

Around 1975 or 76, the first time I got interested in brewing, I bought a
can of the mysterious Blue Ribbon Malt Syrup.  The label invited me to
write to Premier Malt Products for a recipe booklet, and I did.  A few
weeks later it arrived: a well-produced, four-color print job with recipes
for using malt syrup in cakes, cookies, biscuits and the like, but not a
word about beer.  The closest thing was a back-page recipe for malt
vinegar.

In another week or so, a plain brown envelope with no return address
appeared in the mail.  Inside were two mimeographed sheets of beer recipes.
Below is the text from one of those sheets, front and back, in
approximately the original format.  As much as possible, the spelling,
punctuation and capitalization are as in the original.  I've used the
single-quote (') to represent the degree symbol from the original.
I'll post the text from the other sheet later, unless there's a unanimous
flame-judgment that it's of no interest to contemporary brewers.


                          BE YOUR OWN BREW MASTER

               It's simple - It's smart - It's thrifty too!

Making home brew is an ancient art, that dates back to 6000 B.C. when the
Babylonians and later the Egyptians made beer from barley.  In that
historic era, the brew was frequently used as a medicine with spices and
certain bitter herbs added a hint of HOPS to come.

In the early days of our Country, George Washington, Samuel Adams, Thomas
Jefferson, James Madison and Patric Henry and many other famous colonists
brewed their own beer by the relatively crude methods available then.
Today with Hop Flavored Malt Syrup on sale at many grocery stores, the
process of making home brew beverage is a simple matter.

                                R E C I P E
1st Stage:

Dissolve 1-3/4 lbs. of sugar and the entire contents of a can of Hop
Flavored Malt Syrup in 6 quarts of hot water and stir until thoroughly
dissolved.  Pour 14 quarts of cold water into a crock which has been
scoured with ARM & HAMMER SAL SODA and rinsed thoroughly with clear water.
Add the hot solution of water, malt and sugar.  The temperature of the
total mixture should be about 65'F.  Dissolve a cake of compressed or
dehydrated yeast in a small quantity of luke warm water (about 8 oz. of 75'
water) and add to the crock.  Stir thoroughly - then cover crock with a
clean cloth and allow the liquid to ferment 4 or 5 days.  Skim off the foam
at the end of the first and second days.  The fermentation process is
completed when no more gas bubbles appear.

2nd Stage:

Siphon the beer into 12 oz. bottles which have been thoroughly washed and
rinsed.  Before siphoning the beer place a scant 1/2 teaspoon of sugar into
each clean bottle, then cap and allow to remain at a temperature of 60 to
70 degrees for about 7 to 10 days.  The brew can now be cooled and
consumed.

THINGS TO REMEMBER:

Cleanliness of all utensils, including bottles, siphon hose, crowns and
crock is essential for good results.  Wash everything in a hot solution of
sal soda or everyday detergent before and after each batch.  For
convenience it is suggested that a 7 or 9 gallon crock be used and thereby
avoid messy foaming-over.

       GOOD BREWING TO YOU AND . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PROSIT!

- -------------------------------------------
and, on the back:

Many consumer failures can be averted by using a "starter."
A starter consists of:

         1 Package or cake of yeast
         2 oz. sugar
         1 pint of water (room temperature - 72'F.)

Let starter stand for about 3 to 4 hours then mix into fermenting crock
container (sic) 3/4 lbs. sugar, can of malt and 5 gallons of room
temperature water.

- ------------------------------------------
the second sheet will follow in a future posting.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb Holmes                       |      WUGA, the Classic 91.7 FM
bitnet: rholmes at uga               |  Georgia Center for Continuing Ed.
internet: rholmes at uga.cc.uga.edu  |      The University of Georgia
- --------------------------Is this thing on?----------------------------

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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 92 13:46:59 PST
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Mashes & Spigots

Aaron Birenboim asks about pale ales, fruitiness, what not:

I would strongly recommend steering away from sugar, etc. for a
beginning brew and stick to a nice, all-malt recipe. You can arrive
at the desired fruitiness by choosing a good yeast and plenty of
tasty hops. If you can get British ale malt, use that, along with
 .5 to 1 pound of British crystal malt. Maybe toss in 2 oz. of flaked
barley for a good head; you can also throw in a pound or so of
CaraPils (stay away from malto dextrin; you're an all-grain brewer
now!). For five gallons, you probably want to have a total of 9
pounds of malt. Try hopping with 3/4-1 oz. of high alpha early in
the boil and throw in something tasty (1 oz or so) like Fuggles,
Goldings, Willamettes or Cascades at the end of the boil. Save
the molasses and brown sugar and whatnot for experiments; same, IMO,
for toasted malts in a pale ale. The WYeast British ale has a very
nice fruity quality; the American Ale (aka Chico, aka Sierra Nevada)
is clean and crisp.

With a camp cooler, it's not really necessary to raise the mash
temperature to 165F; since the bed hasn't been distrubed since strike
temperature was reached, you don't need to have a lauter rest; just
run your sparge temperture at 170 and you shouldn't have any trouble with
the mash breaking down your dextrins. You can also try something along
the lines of George Fix's suggestions and add the crystal and dextrine
malt at the strike temperature rest (if you're using British ale malt,
though, you don't even need any protein rest: just go in at 150-156 and
hold it until the iodine test sez to sparge).

On spigots: my camp cooler mash tun has a copper tube that protrudes from
the grain bed and out through the cooler drain hole; it fits very snugly
and doesn't leak. On the outside, a plastic hose fits snugly on the copper
and a simple plastic valve controls the flow. Purty simple. 

On slugs: Here in Orygon we feed our slugs beer to make 'em big and
tuff. Anyway, I put out some Imperial stout to protect the tomatoes;
as far as I can tell, the slugs ate the plants and washed them down
with the stout.

On oxygen: Y'know, I'm just as careful as the next guy, and just as
skeptical of people who say several hundred years of brewing knowledge
is irrelevant and too much work. But... I really think there's entirely
too much hysteria here about oxydizing wort. The only damaged beers I've
encountered have been clearly attributable to mishandling at racking
and bottling. Some British breweries *deliberately* oxygenate the hot wort
to darken the beer. So let's stop worrying new brewers about oxygen in
the sparge water and what all. Really. If you've got a problem with you
beer, then starting backtracking and checking everything out. Otherwise,
give yourself a break!

Jonathan Knight: Cidery beer is virtually always a result of there being
too much sugar (as opposed to malt) in the beer recipe. It's not impossible
that your problem is related to repitching; it's not the repitching that's
the problem, though, but some failure in your procedure. When the beer is
ready to drink, you can better judge the problem. Lots of times unfinished
beer can seem a little weird; when the final product is tasted, you may
well forget there was ever a problem.




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Date: Sat, 4 Jan 92 0:13:14 PST
From: Glenn Tinseth <tinsethg at UCS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Lurking no more...

Greetings Homebrewers,
	Although I have been an avid reader of the HBD and R.C.B for a long
time, I have not yet used up my share of bandwidth. With 5 extract and 7 all
grain batches of homebrew under my belt I feel that it's time I released a
video. :-)
	Seriously, I have some thoughts to share and some questions to ask.
Some background/credibility: I'm a grad student in phys. chem. (4th and last
year) who has adopted Dave Miller's book as canon in my kitchen brew house. So
I use a stepped infusion mash and sparge in the double 5 gal. bucket Miller
describes. Since switching to all grain I can't imagine going back to extract
due to the amazing improvement in my beer(YMMV). People who have a bad
preconception of "homebrew" due to past tastes have been amazed at the all
grain brews I've fed them. This leads to my first question. In a recent
tasting at the Heart of the Valley Homebrewers club meeting I was able to
correctly identify via blind tasting all the extract brews. What was I
tasting; it's something I describe as a "tang". There was no difference in the
brewers relative experience as a function of brewing method.
	Next question is concerning adjuncts in all grain brewing. The local
food coop here in Corvallis has in bulk flaked oats, rye, and wheat. These
flaked grains have the same appearence as the flaked barley I used in my dry
stout but are less than half the cost. Does the identifier 'flaked' imply that
the starch in the grain has been gelatinized or do I have to pre-cook them
before adding them to the mash? Also concerning whole grains, do I have to
pre-cook unmalted, crushed wheat and rye before mashing.
	On the last trip down from Seattle (post New Years, very blurry) my
wife and I stopped off at Hart Brewing in Kalama, WA. Had a 1/2 hour tour
hosted by the head brewer, Clay Birebom(sp?) none other than the Barleywine
class winner at the Nat. HB contest the same year that Darryl Richman won. The
Pyramid Ales brewed there are quite good IMHO and are worth a taste if you're
in the PNW. Well I think I've taken up enough space, thank's in advance for
any and all help. P.S. Any Willamette Valley HBDers or even those east of the
Cascades (Florian) give me a yell if you're in the area.

Glenn
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Tinseth		O.S.U. Chemistry	Disclaimer: No one cares what
tinsethg at ucs.orst.edu   Corvallis, OR 97331		    I say anyway.
______________________________________________________________________________

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Date: 04 Jan 92 09:55:14 EST
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: cooler/lautertun

>water cooler for Christmas, but I'll be DAMNED if I'll stand there holding
>that <CENSORED> button in for the whole sparge!  Anybody have any ideas
>where I might find a suitable tap?  The drum taps I've always used are
>just
>too big for the hole in the cooler, and enlarging that seems a dubious
>proposition, at best.  Suggestions?


Yes, I used a regular water valve attached to 1/2" (or perhaps 3/4") ridged
copper pipe.  The pipe passed through the spicot opening and in the cooler
it is attached to a network of drilled pipe that makes up the false bottom
of the tun.

Chip


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Date: Sat, 4 Jan 92 12:09:27 CST
From: caitrin lynch <lyn6 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Dry Hopping

What is dry hopping, and what is the best way to do it. I have heard that
this is a good way to add extra aroma and flavor.

Caitrin

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Date: Sat, 4 Jan 92 14:43:55 EST
From: GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 04-Jan-1992 1436 <mason at habs11.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: Pressure cooker...

Well, I finally broke down, did the necessary homework, and bought a pressure
cooker.  This will make preparing bulk yeast starters easier, and will be VERY
handy when I start to culture yeast.  The wife also has some designs on it 8')

In case you are interested...It is a Presto 22 Quart Pressure Canner and Cooker
Number 0178004 (Service Merchandise number 01780NP).  It cost me $79.97, which
I consider amazing, since this is capable of holding seven quart Mason jars at 
a time.  The two Quart "pot roast on the stove" model was the same price.  I
found mine in Nashua, NH, but it appears to be a standard SM item.

So - one more reason to spend money and buy more equipment for the ultimate
hobby.  I am doing up some starters now, and will have a porter in the carboy
before you can say "undisciplined wastrel".

Cheers...Gary

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #795, 01/06/92