FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  boil-over preventer (dave ballard)
  50% wheat (chip upsal)
  why boil H2O? (Russ Gelinas)
  Re: Boiling water (Jeff Rickel)
  Sour Mashing (David Resch)
  Hot side aeration of wort (George Fix)
  Blowoff (Norm Pyle)
  Demise of Klages, and 2 row color malts
  Re: Bittering Hops, racking and wheat beers (larryba)
  Oxygen on fermentation surface (GEOFF REEVES)
  Boil Overs Be Gone! ("John Cotterill")
  Re: Is boiling really necessary? (korz)
  Re: Hunter Monitors (korz)
  Re: cleaning copper tubing  (Dave Coombs)
  Copper Cleaning, Hunter Energy Monitor ("MR. DAVID HABERMAN")
  it's storytime! (dave ballard)
  travels with barley? ;-) (Bob Devine  07-Jan-1992 0940)
  malt identification (korz)
  modified malts again (BROWN)
  Grain analysis from UC Davis class (Russ Pencin)
  strike temp (John Freeman)
  Second thoughts (George Fix) (George J Fix)
  More on Melanoidins (C.R. Saikley)
  foggy tubes (Alan Mayman)
  Re: Homebrew in Sweden (raustein)
  Starters (Jay Hersh)
  grant (Jay Hersh)
  Is boiling water necessary  (Jay Hersh)
  Hunter Monitors (Jay Hersh)
  Metal brew (farleyja)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:  7 Jan 1992   7:09 EST
From: dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: boil-over preventer



Hey now all you physicists-  I got this thing in my stocking this year
that is supposed to prevent boil-overs (all kinds, not just beer).
It's a glass disk, about 4" in diameter, with about a 1" lip around
it.  It kinda looks like big coaster.  The cardboard that it was
attatched to claims that it can also be used as spoon rest (what will
they think of next).

I haven't used it yet but my mom put one in a pot of spuds on xmas.  It
didn't seem to work too well 'cause there was soon spud foam oozing
all over the stove.

My question is this:  why should I expect this to work and if it did 
work, what does it do?  Should I buy stock in the company that makes 
them?  Could this change the face of the free world?  Tell me, tell me....


iko-
dab

=========================================================================
dave ballard			Reach out your hand if your cup be empty, 
dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com	if your cup is full may it be again, 

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Date: 07 Jan 92 07:34:13 EST
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: 50% wheat

Jon Binkly writes:


>I'd like to try to brew a 50-60% wheat beer.  A while back
>I remember someone posted suggestions for dealing with the
>problems associated with mashing such high wheat porportions.
>Could this kind soul, or anyone else who has tried it, please
>email or post a synopsis of your wisdom?

I have made 2 50% wheat mashes (4lbs wheat malt, 4lbs kagles) and I had no
unuseal mashing or sparging problems

Chip


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Date:    Tue, 7 Jan 1992 9:13:16 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: why boil H2O?

Chris asked that question. I boil all my brewing water for 2 reasons.  First,
even though I have municipal water, it always has bacteria in it.  Not a lot,
but enough.  Boiling kills them.  Second, my water has chlorine in it. Not
a lot, but enough to smell/taste and enough to combine with chemicals found
in grains to produce nasty, possibly carcinogenic things like chloramines (?). 
Jack S., our resident amine-phobe ;-), can fill you in on that concern.

RG

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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1992 09:22:10 -0600
From: rickel at cs.utexas.edu (Jeff Rickel)
Subject: Re: Boiling water

I too am curious about the necessity of boiling tap water.  Dave Miller
treats it as a must, so as to kill any bacteria, drive off any chlorine
(he claims that even small amounts of chlorine can lead to horrible 
phenolic (medicinal) flavors), and to precipitate ions.  Yet other
books treat it as optional if they consider it at all.  Anybody have
any good evidence that it does or doesn't matter?

Jeff

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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 09:04:56 MST
From: resch at craycos.com (David Resch)
Subject: Sour Mashing

Micah Millspaw writes:

>The sour mash is 80% wheat the rest 2-row klages. This is mashed in with 
>32 oz. water per pound of grain, strike temp. is 180F this should be stable 
>at 158-160F.

I am very interested in trying this technique after sampling many Flanders Brown
and Lambic beers while traveling through Belgium.  I love the tart (but very
pleasant) sourness of these brews.  I have a few questions on your procedure:

First, is the 80% wheat that you use malted?  I assume that it is since the 
barley malt is only 20% and that would not seem to provide enough enzyme 
activity to convert all that wheat.  

I believe that someone else here recently had bad luck (Aaron, I believe) 
attempting a sour mash.  Do you think that the natural beasties on the wheat 
malt somehow are more well suited to sour mashing than those on barley malt?  
Does anyone know if the type of bacteria contained on the two differ to any 
degree?  Another possibility is the local environment where the sour mash is 
done, unfortunately I live quite close to where Aaron made his attempt...

Finally, is the sourness produced by your method similar to that in say a 
Flanders Brown Ale?

Thanks, can't wait to give this a try!

Dave


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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 10:07:20 CST
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)

Subject: Hot side aeration of wort (George Fix)

Several years ago I used an ill-conceived horizontal mashing system where
hot wort was transfered via a "pump" from the mash tun to the brew kettle, and 
after the boil through a wort chiller into the fermenter. The system was 
pretty to look at as well as being easy to use. There was, however, considerable
"hot side" aeration during the transfer. The beers produced did not display 
"cardboardy","papery", "woody", and/or "vinegary" flavor tones one usually
associates with oxidation, so I concluded that hot side aeration was not an
important issue.

This was also a time that beer competitions started to appear, and I entered
as many as could be managed. What was particularly frustrating was the vast
discrepancy between my evaluation of my beers and that of the judges. Some of
the beers did ok pointwise, but concurrance over their strong and weak points
were rare. I concluded at the time that some of the judges were full of ....

It was only in background research for my book on brewing science did I come
across the "oxidation without molecular oxygen" phenomenia that I discussed 
in an earlier post. I promply reconfigured my brewing system with a goal of
minimizing hot side aeration. It is impossible to completely avoid some of it,
but I was able to affect substantial reductions. The difference in the 
performance of the resulting beers was astounding. Even those consumed at home
seem to have a more rounded and smoother finish.

There is a good deal more to life and homebrewing than how well our beers do
in competitions. Moreover, some beer styles are more suspectable to these
effects than others. Ironically, the less malt, hops and color, then the less
this issue is relevant. (It is a myth that lighter beers are harder to make
than heavier beers, particularly with respect to flavor stability!) Yet all
and all, I strongly feel that minimizing hot side aeration is a goal well
worth considering.

I am aware of some commercial beers that have been produced with considerable
hot side aeration. One is Bateman's XXX, where hot side aeration is used to
darken the beer. At the brewery, Bateman's ales are sensational, and even 
those I tasted in London were very good.In the US, on the other hand, I find
them almost undrinkable. Last week we tasted some which according to a decoding
scheme given to me by Paul Farnsworth indicated that they were only eight weeks
old. They had a hard astringent finish that overpowered the desirable fruity/
hoppy tones in the ale. This was totally unlike the ones I tasted in England
which had a nice malt finish.

What may come as a complete surprise to folks in California is that Anchor's
products suffer from the same problem. I have yet to get a Anchor Steam or
Liberty Ale in Texas that comes close to doing justice to these great brews.
Moreover, the versions we get are not that old. This is in striking contrast
to Sierra Nevada's ales which always have an excellent malt flavor (not to
mention the Cascades!) even when they are several months old. The fact that
SN's ales are bottle conditioned helps, but I feel there is more to it than
that. If you ever get the chance, compare the brewhouse procedures in detail
at Anchor and Chico. The latter, in my opinion, comes close to the ideal,
while the latter, as noted in other posts, use "splashing grant" similar to
the one at Pilsner Urquell.

Russ: When you visit Anchor this weekend ask Mark Carpender about this matter.
I have talked to him in the past about this issue, but I would be interested
in his current views. I know the tradition of steam beer brewing means a great
deal to everyone at Anchor, and that is why we all have such a fond regard for
everything associated with this operation. However, if they bypass the grant
for Foghorn, why not for Liberty Ale and their Porter as well?  
 



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 09:45:28 MST
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Blowoff

korz at ihlpl.att.com writes:

>Having been a long-standing proponent of the blow-off method, I obviously
have a vested interest in deClerck's findings and Dan's suggestion of a
dilema.  On the other hand, I'm very happy with the flavor of my beers and
their fermentation times are reasonable, so why worry?  I don't use a
starter for my Wyeast, get active fermentation in 12 to 36 hours, depending
on the yeast type, and have not had an infection in over four years (some
beers sitting in the fridge, on-tap for over 9 months - no problem).  The
last infection I had, I could safely attribute to the dry yeast I used back
then.  My challenge still stands: if you think blow-off is a waste, I
dare you to drink a glass of blow-off.  I hope this doesn't sound too
antagonistic.  I don't mean it to.  It's a friendly challenge and I'm
always open to be proved wrong, as long as I learn something in the process.
Comments?

Of course.  A better test would be to brew two identical batches, blowoff one
and not the other.  See if you can taste the difference (I doubt it).  Using
your logic, would you drink a glass of yeast slurry?  I wouldn't, but then it
doesn't hurt things to be there, does it?  (this assumes you rack off of it,
etc. etc.).  Has anyone done a side-by-side like this?  BTW, I don't mean to
be antagonistic (remember the Rat's *ss Stout?) either, but I would like to
know.  Al, you're happy with your beer fermented with the blowoff method; I'm
happy with mine fermented without it.  That's all.  Some year I may try this
experiment.  Until then, Just Brew It.

Norm

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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 08:57 PST
From: alm at brewery.intel.com (Al Marshall)

To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: Demise of Klages, and 2 row color malts


I was chatting with the head of one of the larger Northwest microbreweries 
recently about the available US malts.
The following unconfirmed facts, opinions and questions are offered FYI:

1)

It appears that AB (the major consumer of Klages 2-row in the US by far)
intends to replace Klages with Harrington (sic) in the long term.
The economics of the brewing-barley / malting industry would tend to
indicate that Klages would then quickly disappear from the market.

Does anybody here know anything about the relative brewing characteristics
of Harrington?

2)

This same discussion bemoaned the lack of 2-row crystal malted in the US.
Great Western Malting in Vancouver WA had the proper equipment
to make it, but all the people that knew how to operate it have
retired.  

In the recent past,
a potential alternative malt supplier someplace in the Northwest
with plans to rectify this situation
died before it could deliver any malt.

Briess seems to have had this business all to itself for a while,
probably helped by the fact that the huge breweries only use the
dark malts in tiny amounts for color adjustments, and fear any possible
flavor contribution.
Is Briess going to have a lock on US-made crystal forever?
 

================================================================
                                    |
R. Al Marshall                      | Insert clever aphorism here.
Intel Corporation                   | 
alm at brewery.intel.com		    |
                                    |
================================================================

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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 92 09:26:29 PST
From: larryba at microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Bittering Hops, racking and wheat beers

>From: "Dr. Full-Time
>Subject: Starters and thoughts on bittering hops

While all the references imply that any hop would be sufficient
for bittering (the aroma is driven out after 20-30 minutes) in my
past experience even a 45 minute boil with chinook hops (alpha ~
13%) will give the beer a distinctive aroma and flavor.  Perhaps
this isn't so true with lower alpha hops or "noble" hops, which
have fewer resins and perhaps less aroma potential?

Although I have not done controlled experiments, I go ahead and
use the highest alpha hop in my refer for at least half the base
(boil) bittering units.  Usually the colored malts and aroma hops
cover the residual flavors.  For light pilsners and wheat ales I
use the same or similar hops for the bittering as I do for aroma.

>From: Alan Mayman
>Subject: racking

I avoid racking wherever possible.  Lately I have been racking to
a secondary when making lagers and when dry hopping ales.  Jeeze,
if I am going to dump in 2oz of hops, fresh from the field, why
worry about a bug or two?  the beers seem fine.  Try it either
way.  The beers will be fine. If you are just starting brewing,
take the easiest approach.  Complicate things after a couple of
batches are under your belt.

Review some of the old HBD on Father Barley Wine's yeast cake
technique: no racking involved at all.  he just lets the
fermented out beer sit on the cake until the previous batch has
been consumed (sometimes for months!).  Then he racks to his keg
and dumpt the new wort on the previous yeast cake.  I tried it a
couple of times when making a series of ales or lagers - it
worked just fine for me.  Now that I am using a wider variety of
yeasts and beer styles it is not practical to reuse the yeast cake.

>From: Jon Binkley
>Subject: All Grain Weizen

I made several wheat ales ranging from 1:5 to 1:1 wheat to 2 row
pale malt (klages).  In all cases the mashing and sparging was
pretty much routine. I think the 1:1 was a little slower than
usual, but still cleared and sparged in less than an hour.

I think a thing that really gums up sparging is the quality of
the crush. I have had all klages mashes sparge very slowly when I
over ground the grain in a corona mill (lots of flour). I am at a
loss to describe a proper crush.  The grain should be mostly like
course sand with big chunks of husk (preferable whole, but split).

Good luck!

Thanks to the fellow on sour mashing technique. Sounds interesting!

        - Larry Barello


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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 10:41:59 -0700
From: 105277 at essdp1.lanl.gov (GEOFF REEVES)
Subject: Oxygen on fermentation surface


Dan GRAHAM wrote:
> 
> A few issues ago, Chris Shenton wondered why a brew in a full 5 gallon 
> carboy fermented at a different rate than one in a not-full 7 gallon one.
> 
> I recall George Fox mentioning, maybe a month or so ago, that a study done 
> in the late 1940's showed that surface area bore a significant, (I think it 
> was significant), relationship to fermentation rate and quality.  I seem to 
> remember he said the at a larger surface area, up to a point, was a good 
> thing.  This would imply that a carboy that is not filled beyone the point 
> where the neck begins to narrow would produce a better quality 
> fermentation.
> 

I have an anecdote relating to this question. One of my experiments which
was designed to (hypothetically) reduce oxidation was to fill my fermenter
with CO_2 after siphoning the wort into it. The result was that after 2 days
the beer never did start fermenting. I had to open up the airlock and 
introduce oxygen (air) and new yeast (which probably wasn't necessary)
in order to get fermentation going. There was plenty of splashing during
siphoning so I figured that the wort would be aerated and all I would do is
reduce oxidation on the surface but it didn't seem to work that way. Oxygen
on the surface seems to be important too.

Geoff Reeves

Atomic City Ales
Los Alamos New Mexico


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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 9:51:05 PST
From: "John Cotterill" <johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Boil Overs Be Gone!
Full-Name: "John Cotterill"

Last night I brewed up a batch of pale ale.  For the first time since the 
discussion several months ago on boil-overs, I remembered to skim off the 
pre boil scum on top of the wort.  For the first time, I had no boil-overs!
Not even a hint.  Needless to say I was impressed.  The scum has a great
creamy character to it.  Does anyone know if pulling this stuff off the 
wort causes any taste or head retension change?  
JC
johnc at hprpcd.rose.hp.com

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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 11:55 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: Is boiling really necessary?

Chris writes:
>In HbD#795 (Subject: Re: oxidation) Al Korz [Korzonas, actually] implies that
>any cold water that is to be combined with bitter wort in the fermenter should
>be boiled.  Is this really necessary, or will plain old tap water do?
>
>I can think of only a couple reasons why it would be a must.
>
>1 - Your water is from a shallow well and rich in microflora.  In this case I
>wouldn't even want to drink it, never mind brew with it.  In this case boiling
>has an obvious advantage.

Your water need not be from a shallow well to be rich in microflora, but
the general rule is: "if your water tastes bad, beer made from it will too."
 
>2 - Your water is high in temporary hardness.  Boiling the water would remove
>some of the minerals that might give your brew an off-flavor.

Yes, I agree, but would like to add (simply for completeness) that removing
excessive hardness is more important than just for flavor if you are doing
all-grain.

>3 - Your water is chlorinated or flourinated beyond an accepteble level
>(whatever that may be.)  In this case boiling would drive off these ions.

Agreed.  Chicago water is what I get and it tastes neutral to me, however,
visitors from Europe and Alberta have noted a chlorine smell/taste, which,
obviously, I have learned to ignore.  This goes for any water flavor, so
we should all be wary of this.

>Now if your water does not fall into one of these three catagoies, I would say 
>that boiling is a waste of time and energy.  Please let me know if anyone has
>an other viewpoint.  (like  nobody does?, Right!;-)

I feel that my water could probably be used straight out of the tap, but
still boil all my water.  Why?  Because there may be minor amounts of
microflora which (in the long run) could spoil my beer and because I know
I have both flourine and chlorine in my water and would rather boil them
out.  I'd simply rather be safe than sorry.  That's my own, personal, case.

My posting, however, goes out to people all over the world and their water
could have any and all the problems you described.  Bearing this in mind,
and since that post was primarly about chilling to pitching temperature,
I chose to write for the worst-case scenario.  In general, Chris, I agree
with you.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 12:01 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: Hunter Monitors

Kieran writes:
>I was looking at a friend's Hunter Energy Monitor and at an ad in
>Zymurgy.  It seems they only go to 40 degrees f.  How do you do
>efficient lagering--say around 32 degrees f?
>
>Does anyone know of a monitor out there that goes lower?

Yes, your original thermostat.  You simply need to calibrate it with
a thermometer.  Granted, it will probably have a larger detent (the
hysteresis -- the 1 or 2 degrees between on and off) than a more
expensive thermostat, like the Hunter.  My Hunter Energy Monitor
($24.95 at Builder's Square) has a manual mode which basically means
"ON all the time."
Al.

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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 92 13:18:14 -0500
From: Dave Coombs <coombs at bashful.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Re: cleaning copper tubing 

This is the same sort of copper tubing that's used in plumbing, right?
And we drink the water that travels through it to the faucet.  So what
is commonly done when installing copper plumbing to ensure clean
water?

	dave

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Date: 7 Jan 92 10:13:00 PDT
From: "MR. DAVID HABERMAN" <habermand at pl-edwards.af.mil>
Subject: Copper Cleaning, Hunter Energy Monitor

 Mike Zentner says,

>much work and undiluted dishsoap, I was able to snake a stiff wire
>through all 30 or so feet of it (coming from both ends and hooking
 ...
>get the last of the crud out, I hooked cotton balls on the string,
>soaked them in alcohol, and pulled them through.  At the other end
>of the tube, I replaced the cotton and worked my way back and
>forth several more times.  It was finally clean!

Sounds like a job for my extra .22 caliber rifle brush!  It also has cotton
swabs that attach to it.  Use only brand new unused brushes and swabs.

>From: Kieran O'Connor <OCONNOR%SNYCORVA.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Subject: Hunter Monitors
>
>I was looking at a friend's Hunter Energy Monitor and at an ad in
>Zymurgy.  It seems they only go to 40 degrees f.  How do you do
>efficient lagering--say around 32 degrees f?

I just put the thing on manual and use the refrigerator thermostat when I want
to go lower than 40 deg.  Not a bad deal for $20 at Home Depot.  It gets
pretty cold here in the Southern California desert during the winter and I
notice that my refrigerator doesn't need to run since I keep it in the garage. 
I haven't brewed that much in the winter, but I might want to get a heater to
put in the 'fridge or put it inside the house.

 Larry Barello says:

>Sometimes I just cook the grains alone for my breakfast, although
>I would prefer to drink them in a special breakfast bock... :-)

I like oatmeal stout for breakfast myself.  For the last 2 years I have had
stout with breakfast on New Year's Day.  Last year, Samuel Smith's Oatmeal
Stout, this year, Shakespeare Stout from Rogue in Newport Oregon, and next
year, my own I hope! 

 -
David A. Haberman
Email: habermand at pl-edwards.af.mil

BEER - "It's not just for breakfast anymore!"


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Date:  7 Jan 1992  13:26 EST
From: dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com (dave ballard)
Subject: it's storytime!


Hey now all you hbd'ers-  

I want you to curl up in the warm glow of your terminals with a frothy
mug of winter warmer, 'cause Uncle Davey is gonna tell you a scary story.

Once upon a time not too long ago (last week in fact), a friend of Uncle
Davey's decided to brew an Irish Stout from an ingredient kit he got from
Santa.  The brewer, known as Oz to all that know him, did the batch and
put it in a shiny glass carboy to let the yeasties have their fun.  Oz
went to bed around midnight a few nights later and slipped into a wonderful 
doze.

At around 1 AM Oz was awakened by some sort of explosion, the sort that
rattles the windows in the house.  The next sound that Oz heard was his
dad, Mr. Oz, who was shouting at Oz to "get his ass downstairs 'cause
his beer blew up."  "Uh oh," said Oz, "it sounds like I'm in big trouble."
When Oz arrived at the brewery downstairs he found that the shiny carboy,
which had previously been holding his happy yeasties, was now in about a
zillion pieces.  In fact, one piece was propelled upward so hard that it
blew a hole in the ceiling of the brewery.  Oz was right, he was in big
trouble, for the ceiling of the brewery also happened to be the floor
of Mr. and Mrs. Oz' bedroom.  Uh oh.  Although the hole didn't go through 
the ceiling, it was enough to scare the living bejeezus out of Mr. and 
Mrs. Oz.  When Oz finally found his blow off tube, it was dirty and 
blocked with hop pellet residue.  Oz was amazed how a little gunk 
could cause such a big boom.  So were Mr. and Mrs. Oz.

The end of the story finds us with two things:  One-  a shop-vac full of
Irish Stout and glass shards, and Two-  a warning to all you little
brewers out there who do primary fermentation in carboys (like Uncle
Davey does) to remember the story of Oz and be careful with those 
things!  Oz could have been the Late, Great Oz if he had been standing
next to his little time bomb when it went off...

iko-
dab

======================================================
dave ballard
dab at pyuxe.cc.bellcore.com



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 10:43:41 PST
From: Bob Devine 07-Jan-1992 0940 <devine at cookie.enet.dec.com>
Subject: travels with barley? ;-)

Jay Hersh asks:
|>Bob Devine
|>[who just came back from a skiing vacation with 100 pounds of grain...]
|
|OK Bob, I give up, how do you ski with 100 pounds of grain?? Does the grain 
|get it's own skis?? Or is the challenge to ski while holding it??

Ahhhh,
	Sit back all brewers,
	And you will hear,
	The amazing tale,
	Of the skiing beer!

	It happened one winter,
	The sky was blue,
	Everyone was thirsty,
	For a barley brew.

	The slopes were well packed
	With freeze dried skiers,
	Whose throats were parched,
	For some tasty beers.			[well it sorta rhymes]

	But alas and alack,
	For the hour grew nigh,
	When all souls came,
	For some beer to buy.

	But none was left,
	Not drop, nor flask,
	In all the town,
	The taps dispensed gas.			[Oh, oh, getting desperate!]

	An alarm was raised,
	People were harried,
	'Til one soon shouted
	(Actually, queried):
	
	"How do you expect us,
	Tomorrow to ski
	If we cannot get an,
	Apres-ski brewski?"			[look out! a 2 syllable rhyme!]

	"Take heart", the mayor said
	"Look up on the slope!"
	Down came somebody,
	Skiing like a dope.

	Over the moguls,
	Through the ski school,
	Came Brew-Ski Man,
	Acting like a fool.

	His skis on backwards,
	His shirt untucked,
	One could really tell
	He was truly, ah, drunk.

	On his back he carried,
	Two full sacks of grain,
	"Are you the folks" he said
	"Who have beer on the brain?"

	That said, he dropped them,
	(the grain, I mean),
	And started in brewing,
	Not stopping to clean.

	The skiers gathered close
	Stopping to stare,
	As Brew-Ski Man brewed,
	Right in the open air.

	"On Plzen, On Michelob,
	On Blatz, Blitz, and Bud,
	Look out for the burner,
	And don't step in the trub."

	Out of his backpack,
	Came 5 tiny men,
	As ragged and scuzzy
	As drunks on the mend.

	In a blink of an eye,
	A carboy was filled,
	By the tiny helpers,
	(And only half was spilled).

	"Oxygenation?"
	He said with a scoff,
	"That's just more flavor!"
	As he started to cough.

	Fermentation soon began,
	Not 3 minutes went by,
	Before the B-S Man,
	"Let's give it a try!"

	Glasses were passed around
	To everyone in line,
	As B-S man downed the first
	And pronounced it fine.

	As all the skiers drank
	Brew-Ski Man staggered away,
	But before he left,
	Here is what he said:

	"Now some may drink
	Miller or Corona,
	But give me a homebrew,
	And I'll be in nirvana!"

By the way, if anyone goes skiing at Breckenridge, stop at the
Breckenridge brewpub.  I spent over an hour talking to Tim, the
brewmaster about their beers and the brewery.  He was willing to
sell me a couple of bags of American 2-row for a good price - 40 cents/lb.

Bob Devine
Poetic License #314159

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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 12:52 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: malt identification

With all this talk of the level of modification of malts, the following
re-post may be of some interest.  By the way, to my recollection, I don't
believe anyone really answered Jackie's questions.
Al.

From: <BROWN%MSUKBS.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:  modified malts again

Here's a quote from the transcript of Greg Noonan's (the decoction mash king)
1985 Hombrewer's conference talk about determining the modification of malt:

"British malt, which is commmonly referred to as "well-modified," is very well
sprouted to three-quarters of the full length of the grain.  If you cut away
the husk on the dorset side of the grain, you will see a white spear growing
from three-quarters to the full length.  Most of the world's brewers consider
British malt overmodified.  In comparison, American and continental malts are
less modified, showing growth from only one-half to three-quarters of the
grain.  Before you start mashing, you should examine your malt.  Take 20
kernels, find the more rounded, nonfurrowed, dorsal side, and cut it off or
rub it away to get an idea of what the conversion is.  From that, you can
decide what to do.  If they are well modified, you may need an infusion
mash.  But if they are undermodified or show a great variety of modification,
then use the step infusion of decoction mashing."

I would add that the temperature-controlled mash (sometimes called upward
infusion) can be substituted for the decoction mash.  If you think the former
is complex, read the directions for decoction mashing sometime.  Does anyone
out there actually do a full decoction mash a la Noonan?  I hear that this
guy is the lager guru -- do all you folks with lagering refridgerators go
whole hog with decoction mashing?  Are the advantages very noticeable?

Happy with my ales but curious,

Jackie Brown        Bitnet: Brown at msukbs

[EDITED from HOMEBREW Digest #273, 10/06/89]

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Date: 7 January 1992 11:47:47 am
From: pencin at parcplace.com (Russ Pencin)
Subject: Grain analysis from UC Davis class

Here are some more tid-bits from the Brewing Science class at UC Davis -
You can draw your own conclusions - the discussion should be interesting...

===============================American/Canadian Malts ============================

	Malt type						Klages			Piroline		Canadian
									(2 row)			(2-row)		(2-row)

Moisture(%)						3.9				3.9				3.8
Extract(% dry weight)				80-81			78-79			79-80
Fine/Course extract diff(%)		1.5-2.1			1.5-2.1			1.8-2.1
alpha-Amylase						35-40			33-38			30-40
Diastatic power (degrees)			110-120		100-110		90-120
Total protein(%)					11.5-12.5		11.3-12.3		11.0-12.0
Soluble N/total N (ratio)			39-43			38-42			38-42
Color (Lovibond)					1.45-1.75		1.55-1.85		1.2-1.4

									Karl			Midwestern		Canadian
									(6-row)		Larker (6-row)		(6-row)

Moisture(%)						4.0					4.1					3.8
Extract(% dry weight)				81.7				77					78-79
Fine/Course extract diff(%)		1.7					1.7					1.3-2.2
alpha-Amylase						33					40					35-45
Diastatic power (degrees)			102				156				120-145
Total protein						10.4				13.3				11.5-12.5
Soluble N/total N (ratio)			45					39					38-42
Color (Lovibond)					1.68				1.74				1.4-1.6

===============================German/European Malts ============================
	Malt type						Pale			Pilsen		Vienna
									Lager			Lager		Lager

Moisture(%)						4.4				4.6				4.5
Extract(% dry weight)				79.1			78.9			79.3
Fine/Course extract diff(%)		1.6				1.8				1.6
alpha-Amylase						44				46				40
Diastatic power (degrees)			289			307			215
Total protein(%)					11.0			11.4			11.0
Conversion time(mins)				10				10				10
Color (Lovibond)					3.4				3.0				7.1

									Dark			Diastatic			Wheat
									Lager			Malt				Malt

Moisture(%)						3.8				7.6					5.7
Extract(% dry weight)				77.5			77.3				82.2
Fine/Course extract diff(%)		2.0				1.5					1.5
alpha-Amylase						30.5			64.0				47.0
Diastatic power (degrees)			145			433				317
Total protein						11.5			12.1				13.3
Conversion time(mins)				20				5					15
Color (Lovibond)					17				2.6					4.1



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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 13:56:45 CST
From: jlf at poplar.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: strike temp

> 
> > >   1) Strike dry grain with enough 160F water to bring mash to 153F.
> > >       Stir and let rest until conversion.
> > > 
> 
> > That will take 13 lbs of water (over a gallon and a half) for each 
> > pound of grain.  Here's the algebra.
> 
> > Let g be pounds of grain at 60F
> > Let w be pounds of water at 160F
> 
> > 	60g + 160w = (g + w) * 153
> > 	60g + 160w = 153g + 153w
> > 	        7w = 93g
> > 		 w = 93/7 g  ie. about 13 1/2 pounds
> 
> 
> John, does this set of equations take into account the difference in
> specific heat between the two substances, or would that be significant? 
> Most texts I've seen (particularly Noonan) seem to indicate that the
> malt has a higher specific heat than the water, which (and I'm sure the
> physics-prone amongst us will let me know) would mean that another
> coefficient has to be added in, one that I think would result in an even
> higher weight of water having to be added. . . . .

Well, you're not the first to bring this up.

Here's what I see empirically - one pound of grain at ~60F added to
two pounds of water at 180F yields a mash at about 155F.  Using
my formula above, it should be 140F.   But there are many ways to
account for the difference - weighing exactly one pound of grain
at exactly 60F is difficult; worse, weighing exactly two pounds of 
water at 180F; maybe the enzyme activity is exothermal.

This does imply less than 13 pounds of 160F water would be needed 
for one pound of grain, but not that much less.

It seems to me that if you combine substances, the final temp
is going to be an average based on mass, nothing else, unless there
is chemical activity.  Perhaps the physicists and chemists would 
like to roast me for this naive opinion?

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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 14:26:41 CST
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Second thoughts (George Fix)

Shortly after sending my post this morning I realized that the reason
Old Foghorn is not sent through the grant is that this beer is not
sparged. Thus it is unlikely that Anchor would consider a similar
procedure for their other beers. 

Many friends have kindly and gently suggested that I have made too much
of hot wort aeration. They are absolutely right in the sense that there
are bigger fish in the ocean. Nevertheless, I can not resist one final
shot at the target. Can you think of many beers that have a greater
flavor stability than Foghorn? Taking into account that it is a high
gravity barley wine, what about the finesse of its malt flavor? Not
sparging helps (although this is an expensive way to brew), however
I believe its desirable features come primarily because it is not sent
through that #%&#% grant.

JaH and JF: I promise there will be no more about this!  


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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 11:33:50 PST
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: More on Melanoidins


From: larryba at microsoft.com

>CR Saikley sez that melanoidins are a combination of proteins and
>carbo's. If that is true, then it is unlikely that the enzymes in
>Malt will break them down into simpler sugars.  If my guess is
>correct, then it is moot whether you mash your specialty malts or
>dump them in near the end of the mash.  You will still get the body
>and sweetness.  

Actually, melanoidins are the result of a combination of carbo's and
amino acids, not proteins as I originally posted.

At any rate, it's conceivable that malt enzymes could still bring changes
in crystal malt's melanoidins. If you began with a melanoidin consisting
of an amino acid and a complex carbo, you may end up with an amino acid
and a simple sugar. Is this the case, or are the starches transformed into
other components which aren't broken down by malt enzymes??? Anybody know??? 

CR

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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 16:12:32 -0500
From: Alan Mayman <maymanal at scvoting.fvo.osd.mil>
Subject: foggy tubes

Greetings again,

Thanks for the handy tips on racking!  I am also deeply troubled by my clear plastic siphon tubing.  No matter how I try to clean it, the tubing aquires a misty fog inside.  I've tried the dishwasher, light bleach solution soaks and animal sacrifices. Nothing has helped.

Fortunately the stuff is cheap so I have been replacing it each time.  Am I worried about nothing?

Thanks - Alan

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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 92 17:01:51 EST
From: raustein at Athena.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Homebrew in Sweden


Spencer W. Thomas writes:

> I'm not sure about Sweden, but in Norway (when I was there 12 years
> ago, anyway), it was definitely illegal to brew your own.  Not that
> this stopped people from doing it (although more of the people I knew
> distilled their own, also illegal), but I would be surprised if there
> were good sources of HB supplies and equipment to be found.  I do
> remember ads in the subway for a malt extract that said (in
> translation) "It is forbidden to brew beer from [brand] malt extract."
> Sort of like the situation here during prohibition.  ("If you were to
> take this can of malt extract, mix it with so much water and sugar and
> add yeast, you would get an illegal beverage.  So don't do it.")

Homebrewing isn't illegal in Norway today, and I don't think it was illegal
twelve years ago.  I remember seeing homebrew kits in the stores when I was
a little kid.
What is illegal, however, is the Norwegian version of "Moonshine".
I made a few batches of this with a friend, with a kit (including a crude
destillation device) which we bought from an obscure mail order firm.  It
is not illegal to possess the equipment to make this liquor, but if you are
caught in the act (e.g. if the whole sheebang explodes) you're in deep
shit...  The Norwegian Moonshine, unlike the American, is not whiskey. 
The goal is to get it as tasteless as possible, so that you can mix it with
any cheap extract, and it will pass for liquor bought at the government's
"Wine Monopoly"...  It usually gets a very easily detectable crappy taste
which immediately gives it away, but if you have good equipment and filter
the stuff enough times, you can get liquor that only chemists can tell
from the real thing...
Btw, another Norwegian prohibition is the one against advertising for
alcoholic beverages.  This always gets the imagination running around 
Christmas time, when the christmas brews are launched along with X-mas soda
pop.  All over the place, posters announce, "X-mas soda pop is here!", with
the same typeface as is used on the X-mas beer label...  And nobody *really*
believes that it is the breweries' non-alcoholic brands that go so well with
the food in the commercials...  There are a lot of these hidden messages in
the breweries' commercials...

Yngve K. Raustein, M.I.T. 






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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 92 18:57:42 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Starters


In reply to Dr. Full-Time (Todd Enders) who says:

>     With all the talk about when to pitch starters, I'd like to
>add my own data point to the discussion.  What I almost always
>do is pitch the slurry after the starter has fermented out (or 
>almost so).  While it is true that the dormant yeast cells have
>to wake up and start reproducing, I feel the sheer number of cells
>you dump into the wort wins out here. 

But there is only going to be a negligible change in the number of yeast cells
after aerobic respiration ceases since this is when the bulk of reproduction
occurs, due to the fact that aerobic respiration releases 12 times as much
energy as anaerobic respiration, energy which goes towards reproduction.
So you don't really get any increase in the number of yeast cells by waiting 
till fermentation finishes, though you do get yeast in a less active state.

 - JaH

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts

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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 92 19:00:44 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: grant


Thanks Russ, I'll pass that along to Jim Fitzgerald, who was dying to find 
out about what they were used for (we did) though we never learned the name 
in English (or German for that matter).

Good to have someone who can just pop over to the Anchor brewery. 
While Sam Adams is very nice to us, their equipment (Bill Newman's old setup)
is old hat to me as I 'd toured it in Albany before Newman's stopped brewing
draft there and went 100% contract and sold it off to Jim Koch.

 - Jay

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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 92 19:02:43 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Is boiling water necessary 


I can think of another reason. Some reservoirs get contaminated with an algea
known as Synura which produces nothing harmful, but does produce a volatile 
aromatic component that smells like fish. This component boils off easily
so by boiling your water you avoid fishy beer.

 - JaH

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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 92 19:05:44 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Hunter Monitors



Keiran,

Hello again, I can no longer reach you directly these days.
Anyway what do you mean by "efficient lagering--say around 32 degrees f?"

I do my lager yeast ferments in the high 40s, and then just turn the hunter
to the "on" position letting the fridge's thermostat keep the beer at
~35F after kegging for the aging period. Take some advice from someone who has
frozen a Cornelius Keg solid, don't go below 35F. This is a fine temperature 
for cold aging, but not too close so you'll freeze the keg.

 - JaH

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts

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Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 19:35:44 EST
From: farleyja at sol.crd.ge.com
Subject: Metal brew

Hi folks,

     I have a batch of nut brown ale bottled and aged a little more
than a week, and it currently has a very metallic taste, and little
or no body.  I used a can of nut brown extract that I got as a Christmas
present, no adjuncts, boiled with an ounce of Cascade hops, and finished with
half an ounce of Northern Brewers (it's all I had at the time).  The
fermentation went well, and I bottled after 4 days (primed with corn
sugar).  The brew cleared up fairly rapidly (1-2 days), but has not developed
much carbonation at all.  What could have gone wrong here?  Even if I oxidized
or contaminated the heck out my wort, I can't imagine how it could end up
tasting like the inside of a rusty tin can (which it does).  If I didn't know
better, I'd say that I had left out half of the extract, and had boiled my wort
in a cheap aluminum pot, but I used my trusty stainless steel stock pot,
sanitized everything with a bleach solution and rinsed well, etc., etc., as
usual.  The fermentation seemed to go well, although Any ideas?  Bad
water, bad extract, bad yeast?  I'd appreciate any pointers before I try
another batch.


					Jim Farley
					farleyja at sol.crd.ge.com
					GE Corporate Research and Development

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #797, 01/08/92