FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Blended beers (Conn Copas)
  I couldn't resist...sorry (GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  27-Mar-1992 0800)
  largering (SOCHA THOMAS M)
  "dry" beer (David Van Iderstine)
  EASYMASH (Jack Schmidling)
  Seltzer (Aaron Birenboim)
  Re: Bottles (John DeCarlo)
  Scales, Thermomters ("John Myers, FM3-35, 351-5514")
  haze (mcnally)
  leaky tap (Ken Johnson)
  Dry Beer (Norm Pyle)
  Chiller-less cooling (Dennis Henderson)
  polish beer (Laura Conrad)
  Bottle terminology. (Chris McDermott)
  brewpot (vickie)
  Off to Deuchtland. (Chris McDermott)
  Hops in Wisconsin (David William Bell)
  Re: homemade seltzer recipe (Paul Bigelow)
  Thermometer (916)315-5514" <JMYERS at T1ACC1.intel.com>
  Re: Some Heresies(?!) (hersh)
  Overnight cooling (korz)
  Phil's Mash System; Filtering your water (Fred Condo)
  Re: comments to Jack (The Rider)
  airstat (DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01)
  hop vines: vertical or horizontal? (Alan Edwards)
  Ale vs. Lager (korz)
  Racking for clarification (Conn Copas)
  EASYMASH (Jack Schmidling)
  Bottle test (volkerding patrick)
  Crystal malt and hop skimming. (UNDERWOOD)
  BJCP upcoming exams (homer)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Mar 92 16:48:01 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Blended beers

One of my favourite blended brews is Greene King's Suffolk Strong Ale. It has a
gravity of around 60, a clear ebony colour, and a very distinctive port
characteristic. Dave Line gives a recipe which basically involves blending 2
gallons of a mature barley wine with 3 gallons of new pale ale. I can't say
that I've tried it, but I am dubious of obtaining the port note by his method,
as most barley wine does not possess this characteristic. The bottle label
states that wood aging is employed, and I am wondering whether GK use discarded
port casks. Either that or the yeast could be special. Ideas anyone ?
 
- -- 
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : (0509)610815      
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU           e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut   
G Britain                 (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk


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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 07:59:02 EST
From: GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 27-Mar-1992 0800 <mason at habs11.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: I couldn't resist...sorry

> I just thought I'd put in my two cents.  Regarding Spencer W. Thomas'
> article (Cat's meow 2 redux) in HBD #850, I've found an easier way to
> print documents (eg. The Cat's Meow) double-sided.

I have found an even easier way.

1. Send to printer, ask for duplex printing 8')

Of course this only works for some printers which shall remain nameless.

Cheers...Gary


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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 08:27:59 -0500
From: tmsocha at vela.acs.oakland.edu (SOCHA THOMAS M)
Subject: largering

	 Has anyone tried to ferment their larger at 60 degress in the fermenter
and then bottle or keg for a month or long at 40-50 degrees?

 Tom
I am a ale man because I am too impatience to wait.

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 09:17:57 EST
From: orgasm!davevi at uunet.UU.NET (David Van Iderstine)
Subject: "dry" beer


>Date:    Thu, 26 Mar 1992 9:45:33 -0500 (EST)
>From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
>Subject: breaks,mash,blend

>Overnight mash:  Isn't this the way the big brewers make "dry" beer, a
>veeerrrrryyyy looooonnnnnnggggg mash?

AS I've been told, dry beer is a result of genetically engineered yeast, designed
to have absolutely no aftertaste or "finish".

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 07:27 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: EASYMASH

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 
 I am being inundted with requests for EASYMASH and am reposting it in the 
 interest of saving bandwidth.
 
 
 
                        EASY MASH 4
 
                      (Another Sequel)
 
 
 This was originally posted leaving out a lot of details, 
 some of which were filled in by the Sequel.  This edition 
 further simplifies the process and leaves out unnecessary 
 steps.
               ........................
 
 As I intend to produce a new video on all grain brewing, I 
 would appreciate any and all CONSTRUCTIVE comments.
 
 My intent was to develop an all grain process that reduces 
 the cost and effort to the minimum while producing a high 
 quality beer.
 
 As I have the same aversion to plastic as I do to aluminum 
 and to keep within the budget of most hobbiests, I decided 
 to base the system around the old enameled 8 gal kettle that 
 grandma used for canning.
 
 The same kettle is used for mashing, sparging and again 
 after dumping the spent grains, for the boil.   It is never 
 lifted full so the problem of handles falling off is not an 
 issue.
 
 A few simple mods are required to make it fit the process.  
 A small brass spiggot is fitted to the bottom with a short 
 piece of pipe extending several inches toward the center on 
 the inside.
 
 A small piece of window screen is rolled several times 
 around the pipe and secured with a hose clamp or twisted 
 copper wire.   The screen roll extends several inches past 
 the end of the pipe and the last inch is bent over itself to 
 prevent anything from entering the spiggot that has not 
 passed through several layers of screen.   This simple 
 expedient eliminates the need for the traditionl "false 
 bottom" with a zillion holes and seems to prove that simple 
 is frequently better.
 
 Mashing is begun by "doughing in" 3 gals of hot tap water to 
 8 lbs of milled (2 row/6 row) malt.  When thoroughly mixed, 
 apply heat to the kettle and bring the temperature up to 
 155F.  Stir regularly to prevent scorching and to distribute 
 the heat.  When the "strike" temp is reached, reduce the 
 heat and stir occassionally and maintian 155F for 60 min.
 
 After 60 mins at 155, crank up the heat and continue 
 stirring until 175 degrees is reached.  Hold this temp for 
 15 mins, then turn off the heat and let it rest while 
 heating water on another burner.  If you have control over 
 the hot water heater, you can get it almost hot enough out 
 of the tap.   
 
 The level of wort in the kettle should be about an inch 
 above the grain when it settles.   Lay a small bowl on top 
 of the grain to distribute the sparging water and minimize 
 the disturbance of the grain.  The edge of the bowl must be 
 kept below the water level.
 
 Open the spiggot just a trickle and run the wort into a cup 
 or jug till it runs clear.  This typically takes less than 
 one cup.  Pour the turbid runoff back into the kettle 
 (bowl).
 
 The object of sparging is to extract as much sugar from the 
 grain as possible.  The longer it takes, the more efficient 
 the extraction.  Adjust the outflow so that it takes about 
 20 min to obtain one gallon.  Add the boiling water as 
 necessary whenever the level drops near the rim of the bowl.
 
 The first runoff should be about 1.080 and you quit when it 
 gets below 1.010.  The total blend will produce 6 to 7 
 gallons at about 1.030 which, after boiling will yield 5 to 
 6 gals at 1.040.
 
 The seven gallons of wort will just fit into the kettle for 
 the boil but it is best to start with about five and add the 
 rest as evaporation makes more room avaiable.  A minimal one 
 hour boil will evaporate about a gallon so you can play with 
 the volumes in various ways.  You can increase the gravity 
 by more boiling or boil less and have more beer.
 
 Add half of your hops as soon as boiling begins.  Save one 
 forth for the end and the remainder at regular intervals 
 during the boil.
 
 After the boil, it is tapped into the primary after cooling, 
 either overnight or with a wort chiller if you have one.  I 
 actually draw it off a gallon at a time so that I can shake 
 it vigorously and "glug " it into the primary to oxygenate 
 it prior to pitching yeast.
 
 The rest of the process is just like extract beer.  The only 
 difference is that it will take longer for the beer to 
 clear.
 
 The kettle seems to be universally available for about $35 
 and the rest of the stuff can be had for less than $5, 
 making it a pretty inexpensive system.
 
 For those afraid to try all grain, I can simply say that 
 (for me), the quality of my beer has made a quantum leap 
 forward and it was like falling off a log.
 
 I do not doubt that some people can make good beer with 
 extracts but I can now honestly say, I don't think I ever 
 did.  All grain brewing takes a bit more time and effort but 
 the satisfaction is immence and dollar-a-gallon beer is also 
 no small part of the compensation.
 
 
 js
 

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 08:56:47 MST
From: abirenbo at rigel.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Seltzer


   Dan Strahs asked about homebrew seltzer.  I have done this.  It works
fine.  Use about 2-3 tbsp sugar/2 l.  Perhaps more.  I added some
lime juice for flavor.  a pinch of champagne yeast.  I also used
2 liter plastic bottles.  When the bottle gets hard, refrigerate.
If the bottle goes flat, leave it out until its hard again.

  aaron

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Date: Friday, 27 Mar 1992 11:35:57 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Bottles

>From: RWINTERS at nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov (Rob Winters)

>Of course, when you bottle beer in champagne bottles, you are
>committing yourself to drinking two beers at a sitting, ...  but
>SACRIFICES MUST BE MADE!!!  ;-)

BTW, let me put in a good plug for sham champagne bottles, such
as those that carry non-alcoholic ciders and the like.
Martinelli-brand are not only cappable and strong, but carry a
little white plastic cap inside for resealing the bottle.  Save
those as they fit any cappable bottle top I have tried so far,
for those times you can't make the requisite sacrifice.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 09:06:10 PST
From: "John Myers, FM3-35, 351-5514" <JMYERS at T1ACC1.intel.com>
Subject: Scales, Thermomters


A few requests,

I'm in the process of obtaining the last bits and pieces for my full
grain gravity fed brewing system. Can someone direct me to reasonably
priced 1) Scales, 10 to 20 lbs. 2) Tough one here: A compression fitting
thermomter. Ideally I would like to weld a stainless steel sleve to 
my primary 15 gallon boiler so I have the ability to remove/replace
the thermomter as needed. Since this boilers top is a approximately
7' I would rather not go-up-top for readings.

Thanks,
John Myers

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 09:16:47 -0800
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: haze


In HBD 851, Jack Schmidling writes:

	They can argue all they want but gelatin works like magic.  I have
	never made a batch without secondary fermentation and I never had a
	clearing problem till I turned to all grain.

Perhaps there IS a problem with your sparge technique, Jack.  I always
brew all-grain, and I've never had a haze problem (except for the one
time I used Irish Moss, ironically).  You might, just in the interest
of science, try lowering your sparge water temperature on a batch and
see if that helps the clarity.  Much of the haze could be unconverted
starches that will settle only reluctantly.

I could be wrong, of course, but I do know about my own beers.  I've
never used sparge water hotter than 170 degrees.

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Thu, 26 Mar 92 20:59:38 PST
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: leaky tap

I just hooked up the old tap to the keg and beer line to the faucet.  After
pressurizing the keg, I noticed that my faucet leaks.  Does anyone know
how to fix a leaky faucet (standard industrial beer dispenser (brass))?

kj

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 10:18:48 MST
From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Dry Beer

R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) writes:

>  Overnight mash:  Isn't this the way the big brewers make "dry" beer, a
veeerrrrryyyy looooonnnnnnggggg mash?

I just recently read an article about dry beers in "All About Beer" magazine.
The article stated that dry beer was invented in the early part of this
century in the U.S.  The process involved removing the barley husks before
the mash, a very expensive process.  The Japanese picked up this process a
few short years ago and made it profitable (it's like deja vu all over
again).  Anyway, the concept caught on again in the U.S., but I'm quite sure
that the big U.S. brewers don't remove the husks from all the barley before
brewing (the Japanese probably don't remove it all either).  Anyone have any
more details about the "dry beer" phenomenon?

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 09:43:39 PST
From: Dennis.Henderson at Eng.Sun.COM (Dennis Henderson)
Subject: Chiller-less cooling


All this talk about fancy wort chillers has got me wondering (but still 
relaxing) if my chilling method is too casual.

After the boil (malt extract and seperate hops) I have ~2.5 gallons of 
wort.  I put the stainless steel kettle in the sink in the garage.  
I fill the sink up to the wort level and add six ice trays of ice cubes.  
I stir the ice water every five minutes.  After 15 minutes I dump the 
water and repeat.  

After less than 30 minutes the wort is down to 100 degress F.  I combine 
with 2.5 gallon of off-the-shelf "purified water" that has been in the 
deep freeze for the brew session (~2 hours).  The mixture is then 
very close to 70 degrees F so I pitch.  I don't use the blowoff method and 
rack to a secondary after 2 to 5 days BTW.

My concerns:  

1.  The garage sink is not very clean.  I do keep the lid on the kettle 
at all times except when measuring the temperature.

2.  Perhaps I should add the hot wort and cold water to the plastic 
primary fermenter and pitch the next day when the mixture is down to 
the correct temperature.  Wouldn't this give more time for infection to 
get into the beer before fermenting takes over.

3.  An immersion chiller would take another large pot for sterilizing.  
Or do folks pour the wort into the primary and boil the chiller in the 
wort cook pot.

How silly am I being with my methods?  I'm on my ~seventh batch and am 
almost able to make a resonable tasing beer everytime.  I'm concentrating 
on getting a good process and experimenting with various recipes sold 
at the local brew store before moving to more complicated methods.  

 ...Dennis Henderson 

Unsub:
> with 2.5 gallon of off-the-shelf "purified water" that has been in the 
> very close to 70 degrees F so I pitch.  I don't use the blowoff method and 
> get into the beer before fermenting takes over.
> 3.  An immersion chiller would take another large pot for sterilizing.  

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 13:06:40 EST
From: lconrad at wilko.Prime.COM (Laura Conrad)
Subject: polish beer

>>Date: Thu, 26 Mar 92 22:04:48 -0500
>>From: tmsocha at vela.acs.oakland.edu (SOCHA THOMAS M)
>>Subject: polish beer

>>Does anyone have any Polish beer recipes?

>>Thank You,
>>Tom

I was in Poland last summer, and drank a fairly large amount of beer.
I believe almost all the beer sold in Poland is of the style Dave
Miller calls "Northern European Pilsner".  They frequently will have a
local beer for cheap, and charge a premium for an imported German
beer.  (Beck's is common.)  The one place I did A-B comparisons, the
German beer was draft, and had noticeable hop aroma; the local beer
was in a bottle and had about the same hop bitterness, and I would
guess Original Gravity, but no hop bitterness.

None of the relatives I visited was a brewer, but they did discuss
(but not demonstrate) some post-brew "recipes" involving adding honey
and hot water.

One of the older relatives that I didn't have a chance to talk with
used to make various distilled liquors (we called them "Uncle Kazik's
hooch") using various fruit and honey as fermentable material.  I'm
not aware that he ever made beer.  My Grandmother had made fruit
wine's in her adolescence on a Polish Farm, without using fermentation
locks or commercial yeast, or any of the "modern" technology we take
for granted.

There is also a kitchen tradition of making things with fermented rye
bread.  My Cousin Barbara (the best cook I visited) made a dish which
combined the fermented rye bread with some kind of organ meat (I don't
remember the details) in a casserole.  Of course it was baked, so it
didn't end up being alcoholic.  There has been a recent thread here of
kvas recipes, which you might want to look at.



			Laura

(617) 275-1800 x4512--------------MS 4-1, 201 Burlington Rd., Bedford, MA 01730

There is a law that no organization can ignore, or not for long.  
That is that the real rulers of any organization are those that 
do the work, no matter what they are called.

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Date: 27 Mar 1992 13:47:36 -0500
From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott at draper.com>
Subject: Bottle terminology.

  Bottle terminology.
Is there some confusion out there about returnable vs. reuseable bottles?
It was my understanding that the returnable bottles, from my neck of the woods,
were the same as the non-returnable bottles, from the land of
no-bottle-deposits.   And that both these bottles were different (read not as
heavy or strong) as reuseable bottles (often refered to as bar bottles.)

Is this general confusion, regional confusion, or just plain-old-confusion on
my part?

 Chris McDermott, 
 <mcdermott at draper.com>


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Date:         Fri, 27 Mar 92 13:49:45 EST
From: vickie <QXN132 at URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject:      brewpot

     Relatively recently in the past, someone posted instructions on how to
build a wonderful gadget for brewing.  I only got installment #2, and promptly
lost it.  Could the person who posted the instructions/designed this wonder ple
ase send me the information?  The gadget was set up tp run on natural gas when
heating and was up on legs with a spigot to make removing the contents easier.
 It also required lots of welding...
     I am asking for this for afriend who would like to build such an item.
     She would also like suggestions on how to convert her basement to the perf
ect brewing environment.  Sugestionws would be appriciated (such as:should she
use a wine rack to store the bottles or not waste her time and moeny? Is a base
ment a bad place to brew anyway?  etc.

                        thanks
                                      vickie (qxn132 at uriacc.uri.edu)

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Date: 27 Mar 1992 13:57:04 -0500
From: Chris McDermott <mcdermott at draper.com>
Subject: Off to Deuchtland.

 Off to Deuchtland.
I am going to Munich for a week soon, and I was wondering if anyone could gives
some suggestions as to some beir related places to check out.  Of course I mean
besides the obvious places like the Haufbrauhouse.  Thanks in advance.

 Chris McDermott, [homebrew, not just for breakfast anymore]
 <mcdermott at draper.com>


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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 13:02:24 CST
From: David William Bell <bell at convex.csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: Hops in Wisconsin

Dave Ballard writes of a Wisconsin hop producer,

I live in Wisconsin and was planning to get rizhomes from CA.
Can you post that Wisconsin companies address or Phone number?

It would be nice to avoid the problems some people have 
reported about unsuccesful plantings due to roots not surviving
the long trip overland.

|    David Bell - bell at convex.csd.uwm.edu                  |

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 14:31:39 -0500
From: Paul Bigelow <bigelow at waterloo.hp.com>
Subject: Re: homemade seltzer recipe

> 	A friend of mine is interested in making his own seltzer... He's
> thinking about using champagne yeast and corn sugar with ordinary tap
> water... What sort of problems would he run into? Nutrients, maybe? 

I make carbonated water as a first step in my soda pop recipe, with
white sugar and bread yeast. It tastes almost as bad as it sounds.
However once I add rootbeer or cola flavouring, it masks any off flavours,
so I haven't tried manipulating ingredients to get rid of them.

I haven't had any problems with fermentation. Over by one or two weeks.

> never been discussed on the homebrewer's digest within the last two years

I dunno if it's worth searching the archives for, but I did describe
my recipe under the heading "Soda Pop" a few months ago.

Paul Bigelow	bigelow at waterloo.hp.com

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 12:11:27 PST
From: "John Myers, Intel FM3-35, (916)315-5514" <JMYERS at T1ACC1.intel.com>
Subject: Thermometer


I found the exact style I was looking for. The thermometer is in
W.W.Grainger, Inc. catalog. Discribed as a 3" Dial Diameter Back Connection.
0/250(F) 500 degrees maximum with 6" stem length. It is made by "ASHCROFT"
model #30EI60R060. The rear connection is 1/2" NPT. The price is $28.65.

I'm looking for something a little cheaper if possible. 
This particular one does have an impressive datasheet.

John

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 15:25:07 -0500
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Some Heresies(?!)

I have never before heard anyone complain of copper oxidizing wort.
Most of the judges I know use copper immersion chillers, none has
ever complained of oxidized beer. Another reference point is the
fact that brewers, both big and small, have and continue to use
copper boiling vessels, which if copper conmtacting hot wort were
the problem, would be news...

My take on this is the person who told you this simply does not
know what they're talking about.

 -JaH


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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 15:16 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Overnight cooling

Tom writes:
>First of all, he feels strongly that trub is bad (not an uncommon view) and
>brewers should be careful to let as much as possible settle out before
>racking into a fermenter.  However, he feels that copper wort chillers are
>a very bad idea, saying that copper will oxidate the hot wort as much as
>splashing it around.  His recommendation is to gently siphon the hot wort
>into a plastic bucket and let cool and settle overnight, then rack off the
>settled trub into the fermenter and pitch.

I'm not a chemist (in fact, barely passed Chem in college), but I can't
see how a copper tube can add anything but copper to your wort.  You
should cool your wort as fast as possible for two reasons: 1) the sooner you
get to pitching temperature, the sooner you can pitch the less time
wild yeasts and bacteria have to take hold in your wort, and 2) while
the wort is dropping from 212F to 140F, DMS is being produced (DMS will
give your beer a "cooked corn" taste).

>Does anyone else share the view that copper will oxidize hot wort?  He says
>a stainless steel chiller would do the job nicely.  Also, it seems to me
>that siphoning the hot wort is also likely to oxidize it.  Any comments?

SS is good also, but I don't think there's any problem with using copper
and a *lot* cheaper than SS.

>His other claim is that racking to and fermenting in a secondary is
>useless, and in fact harmful.  The racking will release lots of good CO2 in
>suspension in the beer,

Big deal -- releasing CO2 is not an issue.

>causing more oxidation and upsetting the yeast(?).

Another no-op.  The yeast doesn't care.  Transfer of beer will, indeed,
introduce some oxygen -- I agree.

>The only time one should rack to a secondary is for a long ( > 1 month)
>cool lagering.  Otherwise, a single-stage fermentation is sufficient.

Yes.  I agree here also.  I have been using single-stage for virtually
all my ales for the last few years.  I am considering going to two-stage
to see if it makes a difference.  My plan is to compare:

1. single-stage + no blowoff
2. single-stage + blowoff
3. two-stage + no blowoff
4. two-stage + blowoff

The reason I plan to use the two-stage is to get the beer off the trub.
Even though I use a chiller and lately have been waiting for an hour
after bringing the wort down to 70F to transfer to the primary, I still
get a lot of trub after a day or two.

If you are lagering, or if the ferment is being done at a very low temp
(i.e. you will have a long ferment) you should rack the beer off the
trub and dead yeast before autolysis sets in.

>Does anyone share this view, or care to dismiss it?  Recent discussion about
>dry-hopping indicate that lots of people regularly use a secondary.

Not necessarily.  I simply dump my dryhops into the primary after the
kraeusen falls - after a day or two, I swirl the carboy to wet all the
hops.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1992 13:23 PST
From: Fred Condo <CONDOF at CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Subject: Phil's Mash System; Filtering your water

Recently, someone posted asking if anyone had had any experience with the
"Phil's Mashing System" lately advertised in _Zymurgy_ by the Listermann
Mfg. Co. I recently bought one of these for about $35 from The Home Brewery
in San Bernardino, Calif.

The bulk of the system consists of a pair of food-grade plastic buckets,
each with a quarter-inch hole drilled into the side at the bottom. Other
components include a pair of PVC hoses with hose clamps; a drilled, formed
plastic plate for a false bottom; and a very clever brass sparging
apparatus mounted on a rigid PVC frame.

To set the system up, you put your brew kettle on the floor, the lauter
bucket on a chair or other low support, and the other bucket (for sparge
water) up on a counter or other high support. You set the sparge apparatus
atop the lauter bucket, and connect the hose from the water bucket to it.
When you open the hose clamp, the sparge arm spins, sprinkling the sparge
water gently over the grain. The other hose clamp controls the outflow of
sweet extract into your kettle.

The only problem I had was using the two hose clamps to control the inflow
and outflow. The effective range of the clamps is only wide-open to two
stops. Closing the clamps any more effectively halts the flow. Also, I need
to set the water supply atop a case of bottles to have sufficient water
pressure to drive the sparge arm after half the water is used.

This was my first attempt at all-grain brewing. All the books say you need
at least 8 to 10 gallons of boiling capacity, but I am limited to my
6-gallon kettle. So, I just compensated by using extra grain. From 10
pounds of Klages malt, I got about 5 1/2 gallons of 1050 wort.

To those extract brewers who are scared of all-grain brewing (as I was), I
say: FEAR NOT! It is *MUCH* easier than I thought it would be, and it adds
only a couple of hours to the brewing process. I have two batches of
all-grain pale ale in the other room happily fermenting away. I can harldy
wait to taste and compare with my extract brews!

Someone was asking about the iodine test. The iodine-starch reaction is
very fast, almost instantaneous. If you don't get a blue-black result
within 1 second, that's a negative test. If you let the test sit around for
a few minutes, you will get some small black particles. With Klages malt, I
got conversion after a half hour.

It was an almost magical feeling to see and taste the mash turn from bland
and starchy to golden and sweet.

=====---===---===

Brian Davis asked about filtering water. I always filter my water with one
of those small Water Pik filters to get rid of the chlorine. I've never
brewed with unfiltered water, so I can't make a comparison, but it
definitely improves coffee.

Fred Condo, Ph.D. | condof at clargrad.bitnet | condof at cgsvax.claremont.edu


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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1992 13:45:27 -0800
From: mfetzer at ucsd.edu (The Rider)
Subject: Re: comments to Jack

> >The section on malting was not necessary.....
> 
> That is a strange comment, considering that the poster was looking for 
> information on doing his own malting.

I'm speaking of the video in general, as an intro to homebrewing for
newbies. Generally, people don't want to start by malting. And since
there's no discussion of mashing, there's no point in showing people how to
malt. This would be a good thing to put into your mashing video, if you
haven't already. For beginners, tho, a discussion of the process would
suffice to give them general background info and spark some interest. See
what I mean?

> > and that guy at Baderbraeu (who can't pronounce the name
> of his own brewery) had better be paying you big bucks for the
> advertisement. *grin*
> 
> I had to settle for a case of beer.

Hm... a keg should have been more appropriate ;*)
 
> BTW, I am not sure what he is mis-pronouncing but it is named after his sugar 
> daddy, a Mr Bader.

Well... I was mostly referring the the 'braeu'. It's pronounced 'broy' just
like the name 'Roy'. 

- --
Michael Fetzer
Internet:      mfetzer at ucsd.edu        uucp:           ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet:        FETZERM at SDSC            
HEPnet/SPAN:   SDSC::FETZERM           or  27.1::FETZERM


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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 14:50:25 -0700
From: DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01%hpcsee.col.hp.com at col.hp.com
Subject: airstat

I've looked all around local hardware and home equipment supply stores and
have been unable to find a source for a Hunter Airstat.  Can someone please
supply me with the name of a mailorder source, or for any local Colorado
Springs neighbors, a store?  My reefer refuses to give me temperatures
appropriate to fermentation...BUT I'M NOT WORRIED! (it's my yeasty beasties
who are)

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 14:14:50 PST
From: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov (Alan Edwards)
Subject: hop vines: vertical or horizontal?

Hello fellow Brewpeoples.

David Van Iderstine mentioned in HBD #851 that hops should be trained
sideways, and not up.  This has raised a good question.  It seems to be
conventional wisdom that they should be trained straight up--about 20
feet up in fact.  Maybe the big-time hop farmers only do this to save
space and grow more hops per acre.  Maybe they would indeed grow better
if they were trained horizontally.  Maybe it doesn't matter, as long as
they get plenty of sun.

Enter the HOMEBREW digest, a wealth of experience.

First, has anyone tried growing hops BOTH ways, and found one way produces
a higher yield?  (Hmm, I thought not.)  OK, does anyone know of a friend
(in the same general geographic location) who grows it differently than
you do?  How does your yield compare with your friends'?

I've just planted my hops, and am NOT looking forward to (read: dreading)
buying a BIG ladder; buying 20' poles; standing them in the ground;
stringing cable and twine; and trying to harvest hops that are growing
straight up 16 feet or so.

The idea of sending them up 6 feet or so and then over to the eves on my
roof sounds MUCH easier.  And, it would provide a wonderful shade for my
back yard.  It would probably look pretty cool too.  Does anyone grow
them in this way?  How big is your yield (or is that a personal question)?

I would appreciate any informed comments or stories from experience
(please, no speculation--we have enough of that in this forum).

Thanks a heap,
 -Alan L. Edwards
(A.L.E.--I was born to brew!)

 .------------------------------------.
 | Alan Edwards: rush at xanadu.llnl.gov |      Member: The Hoppy Cappers
 |     or: alan-edwards at llnl.gov      |      homebrew club, Modesto, CA
 `------------------------------------'

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 16:55 CST
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Ale vs. Lager

Jack writes:
>When all of the opinions are sorted out we are left with nothing more that "a 
>cleaner taste" and a lack of certain esoteric esterish remnants.  Even the 
>almost universally agreed to "fruitiness" of ale leaves me in the cold.

Personally, I'm not sure if I could tell the difference in a blind tasting
of Ales versus Lagers.  I'm also not sure if many "experts" could.  As in
the rest of nature, there is no clear dividing line between the flavor of
Ales and the flavor of Lagers -- all beers are somewhere on the frutiness
continuum.  Another "stick-in-the-spokes" of this issue is something like
Samuel Adams Boston Lager, which is so highly dryhopped so as to make it
difficult to perceive esters, that I don't think even Michael Jackson
would be able to tell if it was a Lager or an Ale in a blind tasting.

>The only fruit I have ever tasted in my ale was bananas and apples resulting 
>from contaminated yeast and the use of sugar.

As I've noted in a previous post, my Chemistry skills are pretty poor,
therefore, for the sake of discussion, I would like to present my
understanding and would greatly appreciate concurrence/correction from
experts.  Here goes:

It is my understanding that esters are the product of alcohols and
organic acids.  The well-known "banana" ester is isoamyl acetate, which
I assume is the product of isoamyl alcohol and acetic acid.  I also
assume that the yeast does more than create the alcohol, rather the
reaction between the alcohol and the acid takes place in the yeast cell
(George?  Help?).  In any event (I digress) I don't think Jack should
immediately blame contamination for esters -- many yeasts are "chosen"
for their ester production (try St. Louis Gueuze for the fruitiest beer
I've ever tasted, that did not have fruit added).

The bottom line is that all beers have some esters, and IMHO while there
may be a theoretical division between Ale and Lager, there is no *real*
division (it depends on the sensitivity of the taster, among other things).
On the other hand, I don't think it's wrong for a judge to taste a beer
entered in the Pilsener category and to say "too estery for style."  A
judge should have pretty-much tuned his/her senses to conform to the
AHA/HWBTA style definitions and should be aware of their taste/smell
(hyper)sensitivities.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 13:34:43 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Racking for clarification

I saw some interesting instructions for racking on a beer kit recently. The
advice was to rack from the secondary fermenter, wait a day, then rack into the
bottle. No explanation was given, and it at first seemed to me that the second
racking might not achieve much in the way of clarification. It then got me
thinking about the behaviour of some of my wines, and I have noticed that if I
rack a quite mature wine, it can often throw an unexpected deposit the next
day. Maybe some equilibrium principle operates with yeast/trub, ie, a constant
proportion of the absolute amount present tends to remain in suspension. 
Alternatively, racking is also sometimes recommended as a means of inhibiting
any residual ferment, the idea being that one can reduce the amount of viable
yeast below some threshold by this method. It would be interesting to know
whether any of this applies to brewing.  

- --
Loughborough University of Technology          tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre     fax : (0509)610815      
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU           e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut   
G Britain                 (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk


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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 21:31 CST
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: EASYMASH

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 >From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
 
 >Jack, I know when you said to just let the chiller sit in the wort for
 30 minutes without turning the water on, you were defining an experiment
 of sorts.  I'd just like to say that in practice, you want to turn the water
 on immediately to cool the wort as quickly as possible.
 
 I understand but the longer it sits, the more time is has to settle out.  My 
 thinking is that if it sits after chilling, it is subject to infection and 
 without mucking up the lid, the kettle can not be covered properly while the 
 chiller is inside.  One obviously does not want to remove the chiller after 
 thewort is chilled.  If it sits for 30 minutes hot it can not get infected 
 and is not much different from an additional 30 min boil for a chemestry 
 stand point but it gets an extra 30 settling time.
 
 My poke at in-line chillers was to point out that they are inferior in this 
 respect unless an additional settling step is added after chilling.  This is 
 just another step, with all the attendant sanitizing and clean up details 
 that make brewing too much like work.
 
 >  In fact, the faster you cool, the more fluffy stuff you'll see.  That 
 stuff is the cold break.
 
 >The hot break happens during the boil, when proteins, etc. clump together.
 
 The problem with these terms is that in one instance they indicate a stage in 
 a process and in another/both they indicate physical stuff.
 
 >I believe the hot break is happening at the time when boilover is most
 likely, although I've seen it happen before then.  The differentiation, as
 I understand it, is *when (at what temperature)* the break occurs.  The break
 material  itself is more or less the same.
 
 In my experience, somewhere well into the boil, stuff starts coagulating into 
 what looks like egg-drop soup.  If this point is the "hot break", I accept 
 the definition but let's call the stuff something else.
 
 Similarly, the "cold break" should be some temperature at which this stuff 
 collects and drops to the bottom during chilling.  Again, in my experience, 
 it is a very specific point AND much of the stuff clumps together and floats 
 to the top.  The wort goes from cloudy and turbid to crystal clear in a 
 period of a minute or two when the correct "break point?" temperature is 
 reached.
 
 I have big troubles understanding how this works or can be as effectively 
 utilized with an in-line chiller.
 
 All this simply defines the phenomenon without suggesting a solution.  I 
 offer as a solution to confine the use of the terms hot/cold break to the 
 process stage at which something happens and add your favorite expletive when 
 talking about the stuff.  Like.... "hot break stuff"..   If STUFF is good 
 enough for Carl Sagan, it's good enough for me.
 
 >From: ...the shadow nose... <strahs at murex.bioc.aecom.yu.edu>
 Subject: homemade seltzer recipe?
 
 >A friend of mine is interested in making his own seltzer... He's
 thinking about using champagne yeast and corn sugar with ordinary tap
 water... What sort of problems would he run into?
 
 The only problem you will run into is that you are left with a yeasty taste 
 that is not very pleasant.  A dash of lemon or one of the many additives used 
 by commercial bottlers will sove the problem.
 
 Use 1/8 tsp yeast and 2 tbs sugar for one gallon and bottle in one litre 
 plastic bottles.  Refrigerate when hard.
 
 
 js
 

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Date: Sat, 28 Mar 92 00:44:42 -0600
From: volkerdi at MHD1.moorhead.msus.edu (volkerding patrick)
Subject: Bottle test

I have a friend who loans me a digital scale from time to time so I can
weigh my hops out to the nearest .01 g :^) While I was was doing this, I
happened to glance over at the ol' bottle collection and decided to
throw a few samples on the scale to see if I could maybe figure out
which bottles have more glass, and presumably, would be less likely to
fail with repeated refillings.
 
Now granted, there are other variables involved here, for instance, the
shape of the bottle could account for more difference in strength than the 
amount of glass, but I thought you people might find the results
interesting. Here they are:

337g  The Winner! :^) The heaviest bottle I could find: Cerveza
      Pacifico.

318g  Returnable longlecks from most major breweries. (tested: Bud,  
      Leinenkugel's, Huber. All were within 2g of this weight)

292g  Celebrator Dopplebock
276g  Bass
274g  Young's
263g  Samuel Adams
262g  Pinkus Homebrew (11.2 oz. bottle)
259g  Any Pete's or Schell no-refill but _not_ twist-off
256g  Watney's Red Barrel and Cream Stout
255g  Red Tail Ale twist-off
218g  Anchor
215g  IBC Root Beer
213g  Any Pete's, Schell, James Page, twist-off longneck
211g  Heineken Dark
203g  Guiness Extra Stout (the lightest 12 oz. bottle in the collection)

take care,
    -- Pat




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Date: Fri, 27 Mar 92 23:44:15 PST
From: UNDERWOOD at INTEL7.intel.com
Subject: Crystal malt and hop skimming.


	Hello all, 

	I have noticed several references to different kinds of Crystal
	Malt.  I have only seen plain 'ole crystal.  What's the difference
	in all the 'flavors' ?

	Secondly, I tried using hop pellets in my last batch for the
	first time.  As the green slimy foam came to the top of my
	brew kettle, i skimmed it off.  Was this bad?  I used 2oz
	for boiling and 1/2 oz for finishing.  My beer has a slight
	hoppy flavor.  Would leaving the scum to boil increased
	this?

				Thanks a bunch, 

					Cu

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Date: Sun, 29 Mar 92 16:24 MST
From: homer at drutx.att.com
Subject: BJCP upcoming exams

Montreal PQ
March 1992
Tom Robson (514) 287-7529

San Francisco
April 5, 1992
Byron Burch (707) 538-2528 - Russ Wigglesworth (415) 474-8126

Orlando, FL
April 11, 1992
Ed Greenlee (407) 277-3791

Rochester, New York
April 25, 1992
Stephen Hodos (716) 272-1108 272-3465

Memphis, TN
April 25, 1992
Chuck Skypeck (901) 685-2293 (901) 327-7191

Farmingdale Long Island, NY
April 25, 1992
Ben Janlowski (516) 922-1556

Boulder, CO
May 6, 1992
Karen Barela, AHA, (303) 447-0816

Frankenmuth, MI
May 9, 1992
Bill Pfeiffer (313) 946-6573 (313) 285-7692

Santa Rosa, CA
May 20, 1992
Byron Burch (707) 544-2420

Woodland Hill CA (LA)
May 30, 1992
Marty Velas (310) 329-8881  (818) 831-3705

Milwaukee, WI
June 13, 1992
Karen Barela, AHA, (303) 447-0816

Orono, ME
June 20, 1992
Pat Baker (203) 227-8028



Full details on the Beer Judge Certification Program are contained
in a booklet that can be requested by writing to:

AHA
PO Box 1679
Boulder, CO 80306
Attn: BJCP Administrator

Jim Homer
BJCP Co-Director
att!drutx!homer

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #852, 03/30/92