FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  [Rob Gardner: Re: Gatewaying of HBD to r.c.b] (rdg)
  Calcium Chloride (Bill Fuhrmann)
  All Grain (fjdobner)
  Beechwood Aging (Michael Biondo)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #881 (May 14, 1992)  (Rob Gardner)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #881 (May 14, 1992)  (Rob Gardner)
  "Klages" probably ain't (donald oconnor)
  Boston Beer Blah.... (Jay Hersh)
  Re: Fruit (korz)
  Re: Pre-boiling/full boil/Beer Hunter (korz)
  Los Angeles (PETTEWAY)
  Lancaster Festival (GC-HSI) <rnapholz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Oregon Brew Festival (Dennis Benjamin)
  Marga Mulino Grain Mill (Darren Evans-Young)
  pre-boiling water (Darren Evans-Young)
  All-Grain questions (Darren Evans-Young)
  ph meters (Brian Davis)
  deletion from mail list (for now) (JBCARDIN)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #879 (May 12, 1992) (Matthew Y Rupp)
  CLASSIC FERMENTATION LOCK (Jack Schmidling)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 15 May 92 10:39:39 MDT
From: rdg at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: [Rob Gardner: Re: Gatewaying of HBD to r.c.b]


FYI, I recently posted this to rec.crafts.brewing.

> Just so everyone knows my feelings about the r.c.b/HBD crossposting:
> 
> I think it's a great idea. As a result, the digest mailing list
> has shrunk a bit, but there's still plenty of critical mass to
> keep it going. Please don't worry about the digest going away and
> being replaced by r.c.b. - the digest will only stop being delivered
> when there are no articles submitted to it. It will only cease
> to exist when all subscribers have sent me unsubscribe requests!
> It would take an act of God (or management ;-) to kill the digest.
> Since there are currently over 1600 subscribers to the digest, it
> appears pretty safe. Don't worry.
> 
> 
> Rob (digest guy)


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Date: Tue, 12 May 92 06:16:16 CDT
From: fiero at pnet51.orb.mn.org (Bill Fuhrmann)
Subject: Calcium Chloride

|--- Pete replied to Greg
|Seems to me that crystaline stuff you buy at the hardware store to
|sprinkle on you iced-up driveway in the winter is calcium chloride.
|Another name for it is rock salt.  I doubt they add anything to it -
|probably just crush it up.  Be sure you check the ingredients if you
|plan to use this in beer (?!).  You obviously don't want to use any
|of those weird chemicals they also sell for melting ice.
|
|Another possible source is at a water softener *type* store
|(Culligan?).  I think they use calcium chloride to soften hard water,
 
I suspect that you will get more than one reply like this:
 
Calcium Chloride is used for melting ice on sidewalks, however, it is not
the same as Rock salt or Water Softener salt.  Those two are common forms
of Table salt or Sodium Chloride.  Calcium Chloride tastes terrible.
 
You might be able to find Calcium Chloride in a drug store, it's supprising
how many chemicals you can get there.*



Bill Fuhrmann, aka fiero at pnet51.orb.mn.org
                   
"You don't know what you've got till it's gone." - Joni Mitchell  




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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 08:08 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: All Grain


I have a rather large ten gallon brewpot that was a gift from my father in
which I brew everything including extract and all grain. When I am doing
all grain brews however, I must lug this thing with about 5-7 gallons of
boiling hot liquid through my kitchen, living room, down a flight of stairs,
across my basement to my workshop which is where I have an area cool enough
(unfinished part of the basement) to ferment anytype of ale or lager.

I am awaiting disaster while doing this everytime and am also searching for
solutions to overcome this such as:

1. Investigate using less mass water as posted yesterday by Kenneth Haney.

2. Get a dedicated range/cooker for my workshop. Perhaps the beer/fish cookers
that Dave Ballard posted also yesterday would be of use. Would you need to
have ventilation for these things. I would imagine so but maybe someone is
more aware of this than I. Also would these cookers put out enough energy
so that I would not need to wait a millenium for my 5-7 gallons to boil?

Your comments are welcome.


Frank Dobner

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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 09:46:02 CDT
From: michael at wupsych.wustl.edu (Michael Biondo)
Subject: Beechwood Aging

While thumbing through Michael Jackson's 'The New World Guide to Beer'
something intresting caught my eye.  At the bottom of page 31 there is a
picture of a lagering tank with chunks of wood sitting outside of it.
The caption reads: 'Beechwood "aging" at another brewery, in Bohemian 
forest country.  The  beechwood chips are used to fine the beer in the
lagering tank.'

I know AB makes a big deal of their "Beechwood Aged" process and in fact
have actually seen the large collander-like trollies full of chips that are
inserted into the lagering tanks, and also the special washing machines the
chips are washed in prior to reuse. (I think the chips are reused 5 times)
But until reading the above caption from Jackson (Woo! nice rhyme...), I
never realized that the beechwood was actually used as a fining agent.

Does anyone have any additional info on using beechwood as a fining - I
don't recall ever seeing it mentioned in any of the texts.  How effective
is it as compared to the more standard finings?  Has anyone actually tried
using beechwood on a home brewing scale?

    Mike Biondo
    michael at wupsych.wustl.edu

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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 10:16:45 MDT
From: Rob Gardner <rdg at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #881 (May 14, 1992) 




> 1 campden tablet
> 1 pkg Red Star champagne yeast

 If you are going to make a small quantity of this brew, I sugget that you
 follow this recipe fairly closely.  I, on the other hand, make mead 5 gallons
 at a time and so my recipe for a large batch varies a bit.  If you want to 
 make a lot, try it this way:

> in a 6 gallon p> r> imary, place:

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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 10:21:18 MDT
From: Rob Gardner <rdg at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #881 (May 14, 1992) 



> 1 campden tablet
> 1 pkg Red Star champagne yeast

> If you are going to make a small quantity of this brew, I sugget that you
> follow this recipe fairly closely.  I, on the other hand, make mead 5 gallons
> at a time and so my recipe for a large batch varies a bit.  If you want to 
> make a lot, try it this way:

> in a 6 gallon p> r> imary, place:

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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 11:23:41 -0500
From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor)
Subject: "Klages" probably ain't

A week or so ago there was a good discussion about mashing and
various malts, american and european.  One inaccuracy that ran
thru the discussion of american malt was calling it "Klages".

There are 2 principle suppliers of american malt to homebrewers,
brewpubs, and some microbrewers in the U.S.  Great Western Malting
as noted by someone (Jeff Frane?) sells  a mix of pale malt varieties
one of which is Klages.  Briess Malting is the other and (i think) the
largest homebrew supplier.  It is there pale malt which is continually,
and wrongly called "Klages".  There pale malt is also a mix of 2-row
varieties including Klages and perhaps 4 or 6 others.  Briess calls
this mix "brewers malt" not Klages so it is not clear why so 
many brewpubs and homebrew suppliers (wholesale and retail) refer
to this as Klages.  For the most part it is not.  

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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 12:43:34 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Boston Beer Blah....



I just got off the phone with someone at the BBC.

Yes they are definitely suing the BBW, and said this fact was reported in the
Herald a few weeks ago. They said they have to do this in order to protect
their trademark, and their product integrity (i.e. if the BBW brews bad beer
they don't want it getting confused with the BBC)

I pointed out to them that if they wree worried about protecting the trademark
(which if they don't they can legally lose it, or so they say) then they should
make a legal agreement with the BBW to license it for some trivial fee. This
obviates the question of who really owns it and stops wasting time/money.

I further indicated that BUD/MILLER/COORS is to BBC as BBC is to BBW, 
i.e. they were picking a fight with the wrong people, and thus were wasting
their energy as well as pissing off the homebrewing community. I let them know
that lots of people were aware of this nationwide and mroe and more of them
were getting pissed off about it, and talk of a consumer boycott was being
bandied about.

The person I spoke with took my # and said they were unaware of people's
feelings on this, that this would be passed along to Jim Koch (who is rapidly
becoming persona non-grata among more than just Marelene :-) and he would
perhaps call me back....

This whole thiing irritates me cause I think it's real petty and that it's just
another example of lawyers and corporate geeks run amok....

	Jay

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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 11:45 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Fruit

Frank writes:
> However, should
>a darker beer be sought (cherry stout for instance), I do not believe there
>should be a problem in adding the fruit to the boil, if appearance is all
>that is at stake.

Well, yes, I see a problem.  The CO2 that is violently produced during the
first few days of fermentation will scrub much of the fruit aromatics from 
the beer.   I suggest adding the fruit later in the ferment to avoid this
phenomenon.  I suggest the same for dryhops too, for the same reason.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 12:02 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Pre-boiling/full boil/Beer Hunter

I've lost the original posters of these questions, so forgive me, but:

  Re: Pre-boiling mash/sparge water

If you have a lot of temporary hardness (see your water analysis), which 
is caused by Bicarbonate, you can lower the hardness by boiling and cooling
the water -- it will precipitate out the bicarbonate.


  Re: why do a full boil for all-grain

A full boil is sort of necessary -- you see, you can get away with a small
mash (say 2 or 3 gallons) but then when you sparge, you will collect about
6 to 8 gallons of wort.  This you need to boil down to 5 gallons.  You
*can* do this in two batches, adding half the hops to each batch, but you
can't boil a small amount and then add to pre-boiled/cooled water in the
fermenter as mentioned by the poster.

  Re: Beer Hunter

You can order it (or at least you used to be able to) from the Discovery
Channel at 1-800-TDC-8343.  They used to throw in a free copy of Jackson's
pocket guide.

  Re: toothpaste

Serves the person right... accept nature and stop sticking toothpaste
tubes in your underware!  ;^).

TGIF
Al.

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Date: Fri, 15 May 1992 10:24 PST
From: PETTEWAY%UCLACH.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Los Angeles

        I have recently moved to Los Angeles from Seattle and I am going
through serious withdrawal. NO GOOD BEER !!! Anyway, I have decided to brew my
own. Can anyone out there recomend or point me to any good homebrew supply
stores or maybe even homebrew clubs in the "City of Angels". I need to secure
a steady source of beer since it was the first thing to go from the stores
during the riot induced shopping mania.

                Thanks prematurely

                Jason Petteway
                PETTEWAY at UCLAC1.CHEM.UCLA.EDU

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Date:     Fri, 15 May 92 13:39:55 EDT
From: "Robert J. Napholz" (GC-HSI) <rnapholz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Lancaster Festival


Hello all:  Last week some one ask about a beer festival in Lancaster PA.
            well here it is sorry for the delay.

Microbrewery Festival

place: Adamstown PA
       Stroudt brewery hall
date : June 13 Saturday
cost : $15 per person(12.50 group of 15 for more)

    Incudes "Best of the Wursts Buffet" with potatoes and horseradish
            Music by Hans the Happy Wander.

Microbreweries to attend(more to come) as of 1/92
Boston Beer Co
Brasal Brasserle Allemande
Buffalo Brewing co
Wild Goose Brewery
New Englang Brewing Co
Old Dominion Brewing Co
Oldenberg Brewing Co
Otter Creek Brewing Co
Pennsylvania Brewing Co
Samuel Adams Brew House
Stroudt Brewing Co
Vermont Pub and Brewery

Call or write
   The Great Eastern Invitational Microbrewry Festival
   RT 272 P.O. box 880
   Adamstown PA 19501
1(215) 484-4387

directions: The hall is located between Reading and Lancaster just off
             the PA turnpike exit 21.

See ya there 
Rob Napholz

PS the standard line goes here bla bla bla.....

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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 11:03:35 PDT
From: benjamin at picasso.mmwb.ucsf.EDU (Dennis Benjamin)
Subject: Oregon Brew Festival


	I seem to recall hearing about a Brewwer's Festival in Oregon
sometime this summer. Does anyone know if/when/where this will be
held?

(oops - Brewer's Festival, that is) :^)

	Dennis Benjamin
			benjamin at munch.mmwb.ucsf.edu

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Date:         Fri, 15 May 92 16:54:39 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at ua1vm.ua.edu>
Subject:      Marga Mulino Grain Mill

I got mine from Zabar's in New York. I dont have the phone number
here at work, perhaps someone else can furnish that. I paid $60 for it.
Beware, the price can be as high as $100 (Sur La Table, Seattle).
I would not pay more than $60 for it.  Mine works great.  I use a
4.5 amp 1/2 hp variable speed drill with a screwdriver bit.  You'll
have to play with the adjustments some. It depends on the grains you
use. I had to use a different setting when I got my grains from a
new source. The settings past #2 work best for me. Setting it to #2
powdered my grains.

                1     3     2
                o     o     o     o
                                  |   |
                                  |   |
                                  |   |

Either of these two settings should work.  Note the setting on the far
right doesnt have a notch, so the adjustment knob wont be seated. But
it doesnt seem to move when operating the mill.  Let me know if you
need more information.

Darren

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Date:         Fri, 15 May 92 17:05:56 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at ua1vm.ua.edu>
Subject:      pre-boiling water

I would say definitely pre-boil all water used in brewing to drive
off Chlorine.  My mash pH goes all the way down to 4.6-4.8. I attribute
this to the absence of Chlorine.

Darren

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Date:         Fri, 15 May 92 17:09:24 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at ua1vm.ua.edu>
Subject:      All-Grain questions

Sparge water level:

I got no responses to my inquiry about sparge water level in the
grain bed. Perhaps you all-grain brewers will send me mail indicating
whether your sparge water level is above or below the top of the
grain bed..also, if you have any reasons why you choose that method.
I'll post a summary of the responses I receive.

Sparge water amount:

I'm planning a brew using 15lbs of pale malt.  Using 1 qt/lb of grain,
I'll be using 4 gallons of water in the mash. Do I still sparge with
5 gallons?  Less?  More?

Darren

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Date: Fri, 15 May 92 15:52:29 pdt
From: Brian Davis <brian%mbf.uucp at ics.uci.edu>
Subject: ph meters

Many moons ago one of you posted a message offering plans for a digital
ph meter.  I've forgotten your name, but thanks for the plans.  In the
stuff you sent me was a list of the pros and cons of different ph probes.
What type do you use for brewing?

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Date: Sat, 16 May 1992 16:15 -0500
From: JBCARDIN at ecs.umass.edu
Subject: deletion from mail list (for now)

Dear Homebrew,

I am switching nodes soon so will you please delete me from your mail
list until I obtain another node?

I have really enjoyed this newsgroup.  Thanks a lot.

Jim Cardinal

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Date: Sat, 16 May 92 18:42:09 EDT
From: Matthew Y Rupp <mrupp at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #879 (May 12, 1992)


Please remove me from mailing request.  Thank you


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Date: Sat, 16 May 92 22:13 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: CLASSIC FERMENTATION LOCK

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 
 >I am looking for a autoclavable air lock of the type which can do reverse 
 flow (for when it cools).  Anyone know where I can get such a beast, or
 have an idea for how to make one?
 
 One sure sign of an old salt at home brewing is the classic glass 
 fermentation lock.  When I first started wine/beer making, there was nothing 
 else available, now they are scarce as hens teeth.  As a far out aside, one 
 home brew shop returned my video because of all the "odd looking equipment" I 
 demonstrate in it.  Not sure where you can find them but I treasure my 
 remaining three and treat them like crown jewels.
 
 One of the nifty things you can do with them is to fill an Erienmeyer flask 
 with your starter and bring it to a boil.  When you are sure it won't boil 
 over, attach the empty glass fermentation lock and turn off the heat.  The 
 steam will sterilize the stopper and lock and enough water will condense out 
 to fill the lock to the proper level.  If it sucks some back in on cooling, 
 it's no problem because it's sterile water.
 
 For what it's worth, I use a 500 ml flask about 3/4 full as a starter for 7 
 gal batches and get vigorous fermentation within 24 hrs.
 
 I have never tried starting from a petri dish without going through the slant 
 step but I have a hard time believing that it would not work as well without 
 all the extra stages.  I can't believe the yeast cares whether it is in a 
 gallon of wort or an ounce.
 
 Back to your original question, they exist and if you look hard enough, you 
 can probably find one.   I will sell one of mine for a grand or two :)  
 Making one would be a simple task for a glassblower.  It is basically an "S" 
 shape with a bubble in each leg.  There are some good shots of it in my video 
 if you have access to it or someone wants to send you a "preview" copy.
 
 js
 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #883, 05/18/92