FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Racking/Siphoning Hardware & Pumps (Jeff Mizener)
  yeast population (Brian Bliss)
  Belgium Wit/Raw wheat/Oranges (NCDSTEST)
  Tokyo Brewpubs?? (Tim Carlson)
  re: Oregon Brewers Festival (John Hartman)
  Oregon Brewers FEstival (Jim Larsen)
  Re: Los Angeles (PETTEWAY) (Carl Hensler)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #883 (May 18, 1992) (Jacob Galley)
  Sparge Water Level (fjdobner)
  cookers etc (Joe Rolfe)
  malted barley inquiry (Dan_Imperato)
  Oregon Brewers' Festival (Jeff Frane)
  Water use ("Rad Equipment")
  Water use                             Time:8:21 AM     Date:5/18/92
  Re: pre-boiling water (Larry Barello)
  iodine sanitizers? (Nick Zentena)
  Milwaukee ID's ("Rad Equipment")
  Milwaukee ID's                        Time:9:03 AM     Date:5/17/92
  National Competition (James Spence)


Send articles for publication to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives _were_ available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
(Stay tuned for info on a new archive site)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 May 92 10:19:16 EDT
From: avalon!jm at siemens.siemens.com (Jeff Mizener)
Subject: Racking/Siphoning Hardware & Pumps

Some time ago there was a discussion about using a pump of some
sort to eliminate the hassle of siphoning.  Did we ever get closure
on this issue?  Are there any pumps out there (ideally self-priming)
that can be had for not-too-much money that do the job?

I have an Edmund Scientific catalog and they have some pumps, but
what I know about pumps could be written in very few words.  If
anyone has any recommendatuons, I'd love to hear them.

What do all you siphoners out there do to seal the hose to the 
racking tube and bottling wand?  I have tried hose clamps (the 
tiniest worm gear type I could find) as well as cable ties (Ty-Wrap
brand).  Nothing I do seems to seal the hose to the tube as well as
I'd like (which is to say that they leak).
What am I overlooking?  

Non HB-related question:  What are Fosters Lager cans made of?
They seem to be steel sided with aluminum tops & bottoms.
They were on sale so I bought some.  I just need to know into which
compartment of my recycling box they should go.

Jeff

========================================================
Jeff Mizener / Siemens Energy & Automation / Raleigh NC
jm at sead.siemens.com / Intelligent SwitchGear Systems
========================================================  
(reply to this address, not the one in the header!!)

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 10:52:06 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: yeast population


> all the extra stages.  I can't believe the yeast cares whether it is in a 
> gallon of wort or an ounce.

I don't agreee with this statement.  If you pitch a wyeast packet
into a 12 oz starter, wait one day, and then pitch to the fermenter,
it seems to take off faster than just pitching into the fermenter
directly, plus the extra day.

i.e., If you dilute yeast too much, they seem to slow down more
than proportionately.

bb


Return to table of contents


Date:    Mon, 18 May 1992 11:55:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: NCDSTEST at NSSDCA.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Subject: Belgium Wit/Raw wheat/Oranges

From:Jim Busch aka ncdstest at gsfc.nasa.gov

Ok, Im brewing an all grain Belgium Wit beer this week and I thought
I would look here for tips/comments on my upcoming procedure.  Here's
the plan:
15 gallon brew pot, 15 gallon lauter tun
60% pale malt
35-40% raw summer wheat (NOT malted)
about 1-2 pounds 6 row pale for adjunct cooking
1 tsp corriander
several orange peels, added at conclusion of boil.

Mash pale malt separate from adjunct mash.  Combine raw wheat with
2 Qts per pound water, hold 180, 10 minutes.  Reduce temp to 150, add
2 lbs 6 row malt.  Step mash/decotion, boiling adjuncts 15 minutes.
Now, Ive heard two methods: 1. lauter pale mash first then add adjunct
mash on top, using pale mash as a filter bed, and 2. Mix both mashes
well and hope the lauter works.  I'm still deciding on this point.
Boil 90 minutes, lightly hopping with Hallertau.  Add corriander and 
orange peels at conclusion of boil(steep for 20 minutes as wort chiller
is sanitized).  Ive also heard to add the fruit in the secondary or 
late primary fermenter- any comments??  Pitch 1 litre phenolic top 
fermenting yeast per 6 gallon fermenter.  Push batch through to tap
quickly to maintain yeast suspension/freshness.

Any comments are appreciated, the sooner the better. I am waiting until
Wit batch 2 to attempt raw oats, unless someone suggests otherwise.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Jim Busch

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 9:55:52 MDT
From: Tim Carlson <timc at hpfctjc.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Tokyo Brewpubs??

Although brewpubs is probably the wrong word in this case, I will soon be
spending 2 weeks in Tokyo (staying in Shinjuku, on the west side of Tokyo).

Does anyone have any good info on beers to look for, or places to get good
beer in Tokyo??  Perhaps beer that isn't available in the U.S...

I'm leaving this Friday (5/22) so e-mail would be appreciated.

- --

Tim Carlson
timc at hpfctjc.fc.hp.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 08:47:58 PDT
From: hartman at varian.varian.com (John Hartman)
Subject: re: Oregon Brewers Festival

Oregon Brewers Festival--
The festival will be from Friday, July 17 to Sunday, July 19.

Sparge Water Height--
I've tried it both ways, i.e., with water 1" above grain bed and somewhere below
the top of the bed.  It doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference.  You will
likely have a stiff mash if you only use 1 qt. water per lb grain.  I would recommend
a 1.25 qt/lb ratio.  As far as how much water to sparge with, well that depends on
how much water will evaporate during your boil.  It's generally about 1 to 1.5 gal.,
but you'll have to determine this experimentally.  I always prepare an extra few
gallons of sparge water.  When 3/4 of the target wort volume has been collected, I
wait for the tun to drain.  At that point I know how much I have collected.  From then
on I carefully and slowly sparge to achieve the correct pre-boil volume.  Since
I'm adding slowly, the water level is definitely below the grain bed, if there is
a level...  It also speeds the process up to have begun the boil earlier but that's
another story.

Cheers,
John

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 7:16:04 PDT
From: jal at techbook.com (Jim Larsen)
Subject: Oregon Brewers FEstival


Dennis Benjamin requested information on the Oregon Brewers Festival:

Dates:   July 17,18,&19

Times:   4p-8p Fri.  noon-8p Sat.&Sun.

Place:   Waterfront Park, Portland, OR

There are to be 50 breweries represented this year, and a splendid time should be 
be had by all.

jal




Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 10:24:21 -0700
From: Carl.Hensler at West.Sun.COM (Carl Hensler)
Subject: Re: Los Angeles (PETTEWAY)

> I have recently moved to Los Angeles from Seattle and I am going
> through serious withdrawal.  NO GOOD BEER !!!

WRONG! (IMHO)

On tap in Santa Monica:

Micro-brewery beer: Father's Office, 1018 Montana.
Micro-brewery and German beer: McGinty's, 2615 Wilshire.
English beer: The King's Head, 116 Santa Monica Boulevard.

To buy beer in West Los Angeles:

Wine House, 2311 Cottner, (310) 479-3731.
Beverage Warehouse, 4935 Mc Connell, (310) 306-2822
Trader Joe's, 10850 National or 10011 Washington Blvd, CC,
  - occasional bargains, e.g. Pilsner Urquell for $5.49/6

Granted, we have no good brew-pubs or micro-breweries.
But that doesn't mean we don't drink good beer.
We just import it from places where it is cold, gray and rainy.

I am setting up a Los Angeles beer mailing list.
Let me know if you want me to put you on it.

Carl Hensler    carlh at West.Sun.COM

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 13:36:02 CDT
From: Jacob Galley <gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #883 (May 18, 1992)

> From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
> Subject: CLASSIC FERMENTATION LOCK
>  
> One sure sign of an old salt at home brewing is the classic glass 
> fermentation lock.  When I first started wine/beer making, there was nothing
> else available, now they are scarce as hens teeth.

[ . . . ]

> Back to your original question, they exist and if you look hard enough, you 
> can probably find one.   I will sell one of mine for a grand or two :)  
> Making one would be a simple task for a glassblower.  It is basically an "S" 
> shape with a bubble in each leg.

I think, but don't know, that Semplex of USA in Minneanapolis sells
glass S-locks for about $5-6. Write me if you need the address, phone
number or price.

Have fun,
Jake.

Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- gal2 at midway.uchicago.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 14:09 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpb.att.com
Subject: Sparge Water Level

Darren,

In response to your unrequited call for help in sparging, I have this answer.
Borrowing from the discipline of Geotechnical Engineering of which I studied
ardently between beers at U of I at Chanpaign-Urbana, I have the following
orientation towards level of water during THE SPARGE. Treating grain as soil,
should the water level fall below the level of the grain, the interparticular 
stress (pressure) in the grain is increased which in turn would tend to 
compress the grain restricting the flow through the grain. Should the water 
level be above the level of the grain, you are reducing the interparticular 
stress (actually called effective stress) and thus you increase the flow. 
When I speak of particles, I am of course referring to the grain.

Should the grain become compressed ever during sparging, I find that unlike
soil, grain does not rebound (snap back) or become un-compacted. Therefore do
not let the water level go below the grain at any time during sparging. Thus in 
a long-winded response to your question, I recommend keeping the water level 
above the grain bed level. This is not only a theoretical response it also a
experienced-based one. 

I hope this gives you someplace from which to work.

Frank Dobner


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 14:12:56 EDT
From: jdr at wang.com (Joe Rolfe)
Subject: cookers etc


someone was asking about cookers yesterday and thought i add my 2 cents:

i have a fairly large kettle (2bbl) and have completed my first batch in it.
i used a 135k btu propane fired cooker with a 40lb tank in my basement, with 
windows and a cellar door wide open.  the tank and hose assy is set up for 
the 10psi regulator, i'd like to go 15psi, but 10 works just fine for me.
i also ventilated the brewhouse with a fairly good size fan 
(in blowing out a thru a window). there was plenty of ventilation 
and little or no build up of fumes.  i am told tho to meet code
i will probably have to put a hood over it. 

i boiled a 44 gal batch, which the water temp out of the hose was 50 F.
the cooker brought the temp up between 1 and 2 degrees per minute.  the boil
was vigorous and rolling during the entire boil.  

as a test the night before i boiled a 5 gal pail of water in about 5 min or 
less.  for smaller batches you can get away with alot less btu, probably 
35k will do. i know of a person doing a similar brewlength (2bbl) with 
twin 35k btu burners with an electrical element assist.


Return to table of contents


Date:           Mon, 18 May 92 15:27 EDT
From: Dan_Imperato at vos.stratus.com
Subject:        malted barley inquiry

 Enclosed is an inquiry submitted for the next homebrewers digest.
 Thanks You

     I'm considering malting the barley to produce my own grains and
would like to know if anyone has done this and would like to share the
process.
     I would like to know at what temperature, and length of time,
malted grains are converted into Vienna and into other pale types.
     Also, I would like to know at what temperatures green pale malt is 
converted into crystal, chocolate, roasted, black etc. and the length 
of time this process takes.  
     

Don James 
Stratus Computer



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 9:34:28 PDT
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Oregon Brewers' Festival

> 
> 	I seem to recall hearing about a Brewwer's Festival in Oregon
> sometime this summer. Does anyone know if/when/where this will be
> held?
> 
> (oops - Brewer's Festival, that is) :^)
> 
> 	Dennis Benjamin


Doug Henderson will probably jump on this, as I think he's on the list,
and he's also in charge of lining up volunteers for the Festival.  It is
scheduled (again) for the third weekend in July.  What I heard last
night from Steelhead Brewery's Teri Fahrendorf was that there would be
50 breweries represented this year.  Without a hint of Portland
chauvinism I would not hesitate to say that this is the biggest and best
microbrewery/brewpub festival in the US and well worth attending.
Thousands do!  The weather has always been perfect, and the waterfront
site makes for fun people watching.  

According to the Judges' List this is Doug's mail stop:

uunet!e3bsr at psuorvm.bitnet	

Contact him if you're interested in working at the Festival. Volunteers
pour beer but don't need to answer questions.  Shifts are 4 hours, and
for this you get a free festival mug, a t-shirt different from those on
sale, and a few free beers.  You also get to gawp at the crowds.

- --Jeff





Return to table of contents


Date: 18 May 92 13:00:03 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Water use

Subject:  Water use                             Time:8:21 AM     Date:5/18/92
Darren Asks:

>Sparge water amount:
>
>I'm planning a brew using 15lbs of pale malt.  Using 1 qt/lb of grain,
>I'll be using 4 gallons of water in the mash. Do I still sparge with
>5 gallons?  Less?  More?

First, 4 gallons is not 1:1 for 15 lbs of grain, so perhaps you didn't tell us
the whole story.

I use the same water to grain ratio (1:1) and I find that about 25% of my
strike water is lost to absorption in the mash. I sparge with the intent of
collecting between one and two gallons in excess of my final batch size. So in
this case (assuming your 4 gallon figure is accurate) you'll get 3 gallons out
of the mash without sparge. If you want 10 gallons after the boil you'll need
to collect 11, or sparge with 8. For smaller batches just work it out.

I can also calculate it as a 10% loss of water over the total water used in the
mash and sparge, but I suspect this is tied to batch size. For example, this
weekend I brewed a batch using 20 lbs of grain. I put a total of 13.5 gallons
of water through the grains and collected a little more than 12 gallons (by
running the grains "dry") for the kettle. This I boiled down to 10.5 gallons. I
got a yield of 31.5.

In a related area:

I did some rough calculations while I was waiting for the boil to finish. I
figured I use about 70 gallons of water to make and serve 10 gallons of beer. 
That means when I brew I exceed my daily allotment (that's for San Francisco).
I use a lot of boiling water to clean my kegs, stainless fermentor and wort
chiller. I try to recycle as much water as I can by cleaning the equipment with
the hot stuff and rinsing with left over coolant water from my chiller.

I'm curious as to the water consumption that the  rest of you experience.

RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 18 May 92 13:12:57 PDT
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello)
Subject: Re: pre-boiling water

you write:
>I would say definitely pre-boil all water used in brewing to drive
>off Chlorine.  My mash pH goes all the way down to 4.6-4.8. I attribute
>this to the absence of Chlorine.

I thought 4.6 was too low for a proper mash.  Miller 
recommends 5.0-5.3.  Can one go too low or is the majority of sparge 
problems when the pH is too high (e.g. > 5.6)?

The reason I ask is that I have *never* seen a mash above 5.0.  I treat my
water with gypsum (1gm/gallon usually).  I was working up to worrying about
it, but maybe I won't ;-)

Cheers!

Return to table of contents


Date: 	Mon, 18 May 1992 16:58:25 -0400
From: Nick Zentena <zen%hophead at canrem.com>
Subject: iodine sanitizers?

        Hi,
                Is there a source of Iodine based sanitizer east of Great 
Fermentations? Shipping to Toronto would be to big of a hit.

        Thanks
        Nick

Return to table of contents


Date: 18 May 92 16:36:06 U
From: "Rad Equipment" <rad_equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Milwaukee ID's

Subject:  Milwaukee ID's                        Time:9:03 AM     Date:5/17/92
OK, I have made arrangements with a sign-maker friend (and occasional Digester)
Bill Stender, to make up some unique stickers to identify the Electronic
Brewers. The stickers will be added to the name tags at the conference. All you
have to do is find me in Milwaukee to get yours. I'll be at the Milwaukee Grand
as of the 8th and move over to the Marc Plaza on the 10th. And I'll be on the
tour on Tuesday.

I'd like to get a head count so I don't come up short on these so please E-mail
me if you will be at the conference. (CI$er's need not respond via the Net if
you have previously done so via the Beer Forum).

Hope this satisfies everybody, RW...

      Russ Wigglesworth              CI$:      72300,61
|~~|  UCSF Medical Center            Internet: Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu
|HB|\ Dept. of Radiology, Rm. C-324  Voice:    415-476-3668 / 474-8126 (H)
|__|/ San Francisco, CA 94143-0628


Return to table of contents


Date: 18 May 92 20:07:42 EDT
From: James Spence <70740.1107 at compuserve.com>
Subject: National Competition

We'd like to thank you all for your comments and criticisms of the National 
Competition.  It is always very valuable to us to have input from the
participants.

We will be having an open forum about the National Competition at the National 
Conference at the Marc Plaza Hotel in Milwaukee on Tuesday evening, June 9 
(time and location TBA).  Everybody is welcome to attend and provide input and 
suggestions about the National Competition.  All suggestions will be passed on
to a National Competition Committee that will be formed after the Conference
that will discuss the issues you raise.

The following article excerpt appeared in the Spring 1991 issue of Zymurgy 
magazine.  It outlines the short and long range goals for the National
Competition.  Many of these were fulfilled this year and we hope to continue to
fulfill these goals.


ASSOCIATION NEWS--Spring, 1991 Zymurgy

NATIONAL COMPETITION CONTINUES TO CHANGE

    The AHA National Competition continues to undergo transition in response to

membership needs--to maintain quality and meet the dramatic growth in past 
years.
    The AHA Board of Adviser Competition Committee, the membership and staff, 
together with comments from participants have helped to establish goals for the

Nationals.
    The short-range goals include:

  Anticipating 2,000 entries in the 1991 Competition.

  Maintaining the quality of the Competition while systems and judging
expertise are developed, and familiarizing participants with competition
changes.

  Testing and evaluating registration, data, communication and judging systems 
with an interim format for first-round judging in San Francisco, Boston and 
Boulder.  This interim format limits and splits certain styles of beers judged
on the West and East Coasts.

  Keeping the number of entries at the new sites to 500 to 600.  This will be
done by carefully analyzing last year's entry data and selecting categories to
be judged at new sites.  This will be done so that new sites are not
overwhelmed with unanticipated responsibility for judging an excessive number
of beers using new systems.

  Developing, writing, implementing and publishing a "Manual for Judges and 
Judging Procedures" and "A Manual for Competition Entry Registration" to help 
assure maximum consistency in entry handling and entry evaluation.

  Evaluating and considering the results and comments from participants in the 
1991 Competition to develop the long-range goals.

Encouraging the support of the homebrewing community and beer industry 
through various sponsorships to help defray the costs of running the
Competition and keep entry fees at a reasonable level.

     The long-range goals include:

  Developing systems to maintain a quality Competition that is expected to
exceed 3,500 entries by 1993

  Having multiple sites throughout the United States and perhaps Canada that
will undertake judging all entries for all beer classes for homebrewers
residing in a given region.  The top-scoring beers in each class for each
region would advance to the final round of judging.

  Developing registration and scoring systems, judging expertise and accurate
and well-defined style descriptions.  The goal is to maintain a one entry/one
bottle requirement for first-round judging and a two-bottle submission to the
final round.

  Developing accurate style definitions for the AHA Nationals that will enhance

consistency in judging and help eliminate the possibility of "regional biases."

     The entire National Homebrew Competition program, including styles, 
categories, rules and regulations have been revised and updated.  The program
was reviewed by the Board of Advisers Competition Committee and numerous 
professional brewers.  Suggestions and comments were incorporated to improve 
the program.




Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #884, 05/19/92