HOMEBREW Digest #898 Tue 09 June 1992

Digest #897 Digest #899

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Recent Steam Beer Clone & McEwan's Scotch Ale (yoost)
  no recycle (Russ Gelinas)
  mead (Alan Mayman)
  Origin of Calorie Formula; Numerical Examples (George Fix)
  London pubs & ale (gerald)
  Keg pressure release valve question. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Re: immersion chillers/Wyeast lag time (korz)
  Portland (Tom Lorelle)
  2nd Meeting of Central Mass HB Club (JOHNREED)
  An easier way of brewing? (Tim P McNerney)
  First lager....continues (fwd) ("Peter W. Karlson")
  Adamstown PA Beerfest (doug)
  Mead (Phoebe Couch)
  Brewclubs in San Diego (Steve Slover)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 09:28:16 -0500 From: yoost at judy.indstate.edu Subject: Recent Steam Beer Clone & McEwan's Scotch Ale I recently made a steam beer clone using a 'Reasonable recipe' (Extract) i used a 2 stage fermentation the first stage lasted about 3-4 days and due to the long bottling process i let the second stage go almost 3 weeks i use the 90 second airlock test instead of S.G. it was up to about 120 sec. between 'blurps' when i bottled. I used 1 cup of DME in boiling water (cooled) for the PRIME (5 gal). This stuff has been bottled and stored at 65-68 deg. for about 3 weeks now it is starting to show visible fermentation but little or no head. The taste is wonderful. The question ...... how is head related to Carbonation ( ^^^ replace Carbonation). ?????? The second topic... McEwan's Scotch Ale - I only got one reply on my post .... Has no one tasted this stuff ??? This beer has little or no head is this related to my other problem ??? I want to 'Clone' this stuff but I don't want a Steam Beer with no head !! will my steam beer become more carbonated the longer I leave it. Should I raise the temperature ??? Lower ?? Relax And have another ? -John Yoost Brewer/Programmer Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1992 10:38:24 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: no recycle I brewed a batch this past weekend, using Micah's advice to not recirculate the first runnings of the sparge. The sparge did run clear after a couple of gallons. There was more break material than a similar batch done the weekend before, in which I did recycle the runnings, but not as much as I expected (although seeing a whole uncracked grain in the trub was a new experience). I'd estimate the no-recycle batch had twice the trub of the recycle batch, but the recycle one had very little trub to begin with. The NR batch seemed clearer going into the carboy, but was still very cloudy. It should be fermented out this week. The R batch is already kegged, and is still cloudy. The NR batch won't be touched until the end of next week. I'm trying to keep the technique for the two batches as close as possible, with the exception of the recycling, but they're not exact copies, so nothing could come of this. I'll get back to this thread in a couple of weeks with all the gory details. FWIW, I heard that Dewey's in Brattleboro, VT temporarily closed down because of infection problems, not to increase the brewery size. Russ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 11:27:13 -0400 From: Alan Mayman <maymanal at scvoting.fvo.osd.mil> Subject: mead Howdy, Im ready to bottle my mead now, and I want to add spices. Unfortunately, all the recepies I have seen call for a strong "tea" of herbs, spices, whatever, to be added just before bottling. If anyone has any specific, proven recipies for such a tea I would be truly grateful for any such info. Thanks to all. Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 11:25:58 CDT From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Origin of Calorie Formula; Numerical Examples (George Fix) The calorie formula I quoted was derived by the committee on analysis of the European Brewing Congress (EBC). They started with the postulate that the formula should have the following form: cal. = 3.55*( c1*A + c2*(RE - 0.1)). In this formula A is the % alcohol by weight (they report this as grams per 100 grams which is our degrees Plato). RE is the real extract measured in the same units, and the term RE - 0.1 represents the residual extract corrected for the ash content. The number 3.55 was a factor associated with the units used (i.e., grams and kcal). It was introduced so that the numbers c1 and c2 would be dimensionless. The latter were determined by a least squares fit using standard mathematical techniques. The unit used for calories was kcal/1000g (calories per kilogram). This is how beer calories are reported in EC countries. All I did was to was to convert it into other units. Multiplication by FG (beer specific gravity) takes it to kcal/l, and the liter-oz. conversion factor takes it kcal/12 oz. This is the form I reported, which I rewrite as follows: cal. = (24.495*A + 14.2*(RE - 0.1))*FG. The problems that bothered many was the nonlinear formula for A. Rob Bradley brought this out nicely. Boy if people get worked up by the alcohol formula, they should see what we use for hops. There is not anything even remotely linear about any of them. As far as the other issue is concerned, I personally do not see anything wrong with the "factor of 4" conversion from Plato to spec. gr. The only point I wanted to make was that it was not exact. In particular, Mike Hall's analysis seems entirely reasonable. Perhaps the following examples might clarify these issues a bit. The data was taken from the German trade journal Brauindustrie. Their column "500 Biere aus aller Welt" gives numerical profiles of beer brewed throughout the world. The measurements were done at Weihenstephan so the numbers are very good. The only exception was Michelob whose data I got from AB. The numbers are in % by weight ( grams per 100 grams), except those for calories. Paulaner Salvator - ------------------ Measured data: OE = 18.3 (1.076 or 1.073 for the factor of four types) RE = 6.78 (1.027) AE = 4.24 (1.017) A = 6.17% wt. kcal/1000g = 693 kcal/12oz. = 693*1.017*12/33.8144 = 250.1 Balling's formulas: RE = .8192*4.24 + .1808*18.3 = 6.78 A = (18.3 - 6.78)/(2.0665 -.010665*18.3) = 6.16% wt. EBC formula: kcal/12 oz. = (24.495*6.16 + 14.2*6.68)*1.017 = 249.9 By the way the linear wine formula A=100*(OG-FG) gives A = 100*(1.073 - 1.017) = 5.6% wt. I frankly feel most homebrewers could have gotten a better estimate by actually tasting a glass of Salvator and guessing. The wine formulas do better at lower OGs, but my interest in accuracy wanes as well. Having said this I should also say that "acceptable accuracy" falls into the area of personal opinion, and thus is not amenable to rational analysis. My main interest in formulas for alcohol and calories is for dopplebocks and barley wines. I wanted something better than "sloppy Joe" numbers not only to monitor personal consumption, but also as a reference for friends and neighbors who help me drink the beer I brew. Michelob - ---------- Measured data: OE = 12.0 RE = 4.53 AE = 2.89 A = 3.81% wt. kcal/12 oz. = 156 Calculated data: RE = 4.53 A = 3.85% wt. kcal/12 oz = 158 EKU 28 (!): - ------------ Measured data: OE = 28.8 (1.124; here the factor of 4 gives 1.115) RE = 12.22 A = 9.42% wt. kcal/12oz. = 416.5 Calculated data: You are not going to believe this, but the formulas for A and kcal/12oz. are almost exact. I leave this as a homework exercise! The nonlinear term in Balling's formula is also of historic significance. The classical Gay-Lussac theory (see page 161 of my book) predicts a formula like A = (OE - RE)/c, where c is a constant near 2. (Note that OE - RE is the amount of extract fermentated in grams per 100 grams). This is only the case for liquids like wine, which for this purpose may be considered as a simple mixture of glucose (dextrose) and water. Beer wort is far more subtle! This lead to the modern Embden-Meyerhof-Parnas theory of fermentation (pages 175-184). There is a practical issue here as well. Note that the denominator c = 2.0665 - .010665*OE decreases as OE increases. Folks,there is more alcohol in our homebrews than many may realize, especially those with high OEs. Take care. Off to Milwaukee! George Fix Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 12:08:29 -0400 From: gerald at zip.eecs.umich.edu Subject: London pubs & ale I am going to London for several days at the end of this week. Exactly where I am not sure. I am accompanying my wife on a business trip. I guess I'll just have to spend my free time checking out the pubs as my wife slaves away in the boardroom. I would like some suggestions from the digest as to the best pubs, the pubs I absolutely should not miss, and ale/porter brands I should sample. Since this is an individual request, maybe it would be best to respond directly to me. All suggestions are welcome. Thanks, gerald at caen.engin.umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 8 Jun 92 13:29:00 EDT From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil> Subject: Keg pressure release valve question. Ah, struck it rich, keggingwise, that is. A friend owns a root beer concession truck and is giving me a good used regulator, tank and hoses, not to mention kegs. He just brought over two Coke pin lock kegs. I'm gonng have to replace the O rings, of course, don't like root beer flavored beer, but I have a question. I've never had my hands on a soda keg before. There are two connections, as I would expect. In the center of those valves, is an area that I can press on and the pressure is releaved, or I get squirted with old root beer, depending on which one. There is a bail-like handle to release the top. Is there supposed to be a separate pressure relief valce, something other than the centers of the two and three pin valves? Is it supposed to be in the lid? Have I gotton very old kegs that I shouldn't use? Can I get replacement lids with valves, or am I on the wrong track completely. I'm doing this blind, so to speak, 'cause I'm really blind and got tired of bottling and spilling. Let's hear it for kegs, assuming I can get these to work. Now, if I've gotton the wrong kind of kegs, let me down easy like, huh? Dan Graham Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 13:55 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: immersion chillers/Wyeast lag time Carl writes (regarding the "coil-in-icewater" chillers): > >It has its >advantages and its disadvantages just as any other method. I depends on >what you want/need to do. > >Advantages: > - the wort is cooled very quickly like in a counterflow cooler, giving > a good cold break. > - it's a sure thing that the wort is not exposed to infection during > its most vulnerable time ( 170F < wort > 70F ) > - the materials are mostly easy to get (a pot, ice, a coil of copper > tubing) and there's not alot of permanent`construction' to be done Also: - uses a lot less water than either an immersion chiller or a traditional counterflow (some use a closed loop with icewater on the chiller side) -- very important in drought-stricken areas! > >Disadvantages: > - you need to concern yourself with the cleanliness of the inside of > the tubing > - you have to jockey yet another pot of water > - you have to come up with an intake tube that will stand up to boiling > wort > - you have to figure out how to plumb the whole thing together Also: - the cold break ends up in the collection vessel -- you need to siphon off the trub again, this time at 70F (increased risk of infection) > > >Carl > I'd also like to point out that it's the head (the weight of the column of liquid above the level of the source vessel of the siphon system) and the 50 feet of tubing that make starting the siphon so difficult not the 10 feet of hose running down to Frank's basement. Starting the siphon in the kitchen with a short length of hose would not help much. What would help is lowering the chiller. How about putting the chiler in the basement? Once you see the wort in the tubing, you can let gravity fill the chiller. I suggest PE tubing for the hot side -- it stands up to heat *much* better than the clear tubing. >Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 12:20:46 EDT >From: "Theodore R. Jackson Jr." <tj2d at mtaac.bme.Virginia.EDU> >Subject: Wyeast problems (Re: Wyeast Belgian revisited) > >I have also encountered problems (infections) using >Wyeast liquid cultures. At first, I attributed the >problems to poor sanitation techniques although I never >had a problem in any of the 18 previous batches brewed >with Whitbread ale yeast. However, a recent attempt to >culture Chimay yeast directly from the bottle has lead >me to believe otherwise. Then Ted goes on to suggest that slow starts and not using a starter probably caused some nasties to take hold before the Wyeast did. I concur. I like Ted's suggestion for testing your "environment." Good idea. I'd like to point out that timing is essential when not using a starter with Wyeast. I've successfully made 15 or 20 beers using Wyeast *without* starters and have not had any infections with those batches. (I've since begun using starters for even faster starts and for cost savings -- I split a package of Wyeast between three batches -- three 16 oz starters.) The key, I've found, is to pitch after the correct amount of incubation. When I've used packages that were *completely* swollen (almost to bursting) I've had slow starts (48-60 hours). Twice, having pitched 1 month old packages, after only 18 hours of incubation, where the package was only about an inch thick, I got active fermentation in about 12 hours. I theorize, that as in any starter, there is a limited amount of sugar. If you pitch the yeast into the fermenter when the yeast is most active (high krauesen, if using a starter container you can see through) your lag time is minimized. If you wait too long, the yeast runs out of sugar and goes dormant again. Another important factor is the temperature difference between the starter and the wort. I've noticed an increased lag time from a five degree difference (colder wort than starter). Granted, there are other variables, most notably the strain of yeast, but I think that the importance of timing the pitch with high krauesen has not been given the proper attention. Proper timing and matching the wort temperature to the starter temperature can give lag times close to those of dry yeast. I guess I've been blessed with a relatively nasty-free basement, since the long lags have not been a problem. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Jun 92 15:35:02 EDT From: Tom Lorelle <70713.2324 at compuserve.com> Subject: Portland I'm going to Portland Friday, June 12 for the first time. Anybody in the area recommend some "must-see" places? Please e-mail me in interest of keeping bandwith down. Also, for anybody in the LA/Orange Co. area, I'm moving out of state and have some extra kegs to get rid of. Thanks, Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 16:02:05 EDT From: JOHNREED at BOSTON.VNET.IBM.COM Subject: 2nd Meeting of Central Mass HB Club Announcing the second meeting of the *as yet unnamed* HB Club for the Central Massachusetts/Rhode Island area. DATE: Saturday, June 13 TIME: 7:00 PM -- 10:00 PM WHERE: Sheraton Milford I-495 & Rt. 109, Milford, MA AGENDA: Club Officer Nominations Club Name Voting HB Tasting Bring your own HB, labelled (3 max) CONTACT: John Reed (617 895-2158) at work or (508 529-4470) at home Call me and let me know if you'll attend! We had *FUN* at the first meeting. The second meeting should be even better! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 13:40:26 PDT From: tpm%wdl58 at wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney) Subject: An easier way of brewing? I have recently started using a method for brewing which I find to be easier than what I was using before and I would be interested in comments, suggestions or problems people see with it. Basically, the main change was to start buying one of those 2.5 gallon plastic water jugs. I use the jug itself to ferment in, then I just get rid of the jug (my apartment recycling bins won't take it (only the 2 liter plastic bottles. Are they recyclable?). Advantages I've found: 1. Cleanup is much easier. 2. I prefer 2.5 gallon batches since it lets me brew as often as I did, but I don't end up with the backlog of beer I had before. 3. No fear of two foot long glass shards. 4. In general, easier to move around. 5. No need to wait for cooling to add to carboy. 6. I can fit the whole thing in the freezer to get it down to pitching temperature. 7. Easier to fit in the fridge. Before, brewing a lager was not a possibility. 8. I don't have to use Mountain View sparkling tap water. 9. Faster ferments, quicker settling (I believe this is true, though I don't have a large enough sample yet. 10. Since this is a one-shot deal, no problem with getting scratches in the jug. Disadvantages: 1. Cost. Though most ingredients are scalable, yeast isn't, so the cost (if using Wyeast) would be twice as much per volume. Also, brewing time is not cut in half. The first isn't a problem since I culture my own (actually, it is an advantage as I do not have to make a fullsize starter) and the second doesn't bother me. There is the cost of the water and jug, though. 2. If I make a really good batch, then no one else gets to try any. 3. Somewhat strange shape of bottle makes blowoff less effective. 4. Most equipment not made for the Alhambra water bottle (new stoppers, etc.). 5. Temperature fluctuations more likely. 6. No obvious way for two-stage fermentaion without taking away some of the advantages (ie. I would have to clean out some of the older jugs). Some questions: 1. How clean are these bottles likely to be (do I need to give them a quick bleach soak)? 2. I know these bottles are water safe, but are they also beer safe? 3. Can I recycle these water bottles? 4. Do I need to preboil the water (I am an extract brewer and I have been brewing with 1.5 gallons of water while putting the other gallon or so in the freezer, making for a quick pitch)? 5. Any other problems which come to mind? Thanks. ________________________________ - --Tim McNerney - --Loral Western Development Labs - --(408) 473-4748 - --tpm at wdl1.wdl.loral.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1992 17:25:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Peter W. Karlson" <pk at columbus.dfci.harvard.edu> Subject: First lager....continues (fwd) Thanks for all the lager answers.... I'm still confused about the temperature issue, after I'm satisfied that the beer is carbonated, can the beer then travel at a higer temperature (70 degrees) for a day or so. -pk Return to table of contents
Date: 8 Jun 92 17:03 EST From: doug at metabolism.bitstream.com Subject: Adamstown PA Beerfest Sorry: I forgot if I saw a post about this or not. Does anybody have any information that they could post directly to me concerning a beer fest in Adamstown, PA. I'm not sure if it is happening or not, just confirming a rumor. Thanks in advance. doug connolly doug at bitstream.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 13:40:38 PDT From: ithaca!amber!phoebe at uunet.UU.NET (Phoebe Couch) Subject: Mead Mike> I've decided to try to make a batch of mead since I can't Mike> find a commercial variety to buy. I've never tasted the stuff, Mike> I'm just curious. --- The problem is I don't know where to Mike> find good honey. Does anyone know of a good mail order dealer Mike> or a local place in the Balto-Wash. area to buy bulk honey? I seem to remember that there is store called Bargetto<spelling> that sells a mead wine. The store I have been to is in Monterey(there is another one elsewhere). They also have a whole bunch of fruit wines, vinegars and wine tasting. P. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 17:09:23 PDT From: slover at tacsys.saic.com (Steve Slover) Subject: Brewclubs in San Diego Greetings, Can anyone recommend any brewclubs in the San Diego area? I would like some help improving my beer and maybe get some advice to ease the transition to all grain brewing. I'm and extract brewer and have been brewing for about a year. Thanks. Steve Slover slover at tacsys.saic.com (This address is good for about another week.) (619) 552-3788 Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #898, 06/09/92