FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Recent Steam Beer Clone & McEwan's Scotch Ale (yoost)
  no recycle (Russ Gelinas)
  mead (Alan Mayman)
  Origin of Calorie Formula; Numerical Examples (George Fix)
  London pubs & ale (gerald)
  Keg pressure release valve question. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Re: immersion chillers/Wyeast lag time (korz)
  Portland (Tom Lorelle)
  2nd Meeting of Central Mass HB Club (JOHNREED)
  An easier way of brewing? (Tim P McNerney)
  First lager....continues (fwd) ("Peter W. Karlson")
  Adamstown PA Beerfest (doug)
  Mead (Phoebe Couch)
  Brewclubs in San Diego (Steve Slover)


Send articles for publication to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives _were_ available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
(Stay tuned for info on a new archive site)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu**


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 09:28:16 -0500
From: yoost at judy.indstate.edu
Subject: Recent Steam Beer Clone & McEwan's Scotch Ale


I recently made a steam beer clone using a 'Reasonable recipe' (Extract)

i used a 2 stage fermentation the first stage lasted about 3-4 days and

due to the long bottling process i let the second stage go almost 3 weeks

i use the 90 second airlock test instead of S.G. it was up to about 120 sec.

between 'blurps' when i bottled. I used 1 cup of DME in boiling water (cooled)

for the PRIME (5 gal). This stuff has been bottled and stored at 65-68 deg.

for about 3 weeks now it is starting to show visible fermentation but little

or no head.  The taste is wonderful.

The question ...... how is head related to Carbonation ( ^^^ replace Carbonation).
??????

The second topic...

McEwan's Scotch Ale - I only got one reply on my post ....

Has no one tasted this stuff ???

This beer has little or no head is this related to my other problem ???

I want to 'Clone' this stuff but I don't want a Steam Beer with no head !!

will my steam beer become more carbonated the longer I leave it.

Should I raise the temperature ??? Lower ?? Relax And have another ?

 -John Yoost Brewer/Programmer

Return to table of contents


Date:    Mon, 8 Jun 1992 10:38:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: no recycle

   I brewed a batch this past weekend, using Micah's advice to not
recirculate the first runnings of the sparge.  The sparge did run clear
after a couple of gallons.  There was more break material than a similar
batch done the weekend before, in which I did recycle the runnings, but
not as much as I expected (although seeing a whole uncracked grain in the
trub was a new experience).  I'd estimate the no-recycle batch had twice
the trub of the recycle batch, but the recycle one had very little trub
to begin with.  The NR batch seemed clearer going into the carboy, but 
was still very cloudy.  It should be fermented out this week.  The R batch
is already kegged, and is still cloudy.  The NR batch won't be touched until
the end of next week.

   I'm trying to keep the technique for the two batches as close as possible,
with the exception of the recycling, but they're not exact copies, so nothing
could come of this.  I'll get back to this thread in a couple of weeks with
all the gory details.

   FWIW, I heard that Dewey's in Brattleboro, VT temporarily closed down
because of infection problems, not to increase the brewery size.

Russ

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 11:27:13 -0400
From: Alan Mayman <maymanal at scvoting.fvo.osd.mil>
Subject: mead

Howdy,

Im ready to bottle my mead now, and I want to add spices.  
Unfortunately, all the recepies I have seen call for a 
strong "tea" of herbs, spices, whatever, to be added just before 
bottling.  If anyone has any specific, proven recipies for such a 
tea I would be truly grateful for any such info.

Thanks to all.

Alan

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 11:25:58 CDT
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)

Subject: Origin of Calorie Formula; Numerical Examples (George Fix)

The calorie formula I quoted was derived by the committee on analysis
of the European Brewing Congress (EBC). They started with the postulate
that the formula should have the following form:

    cal. = 3.55*( c1*A + c2*(RE - 0.1)).

In this formula A is the % alcohol by weight (they report this as
grams per 100 grams which is our degrees Plato). RE is the real extract
measured in the same units, and the term RE - 0.1 represents the residual
extract corrected for the ash content. The number 3.55 was a factor 
associated with the units used (i.e., grams and kcal). It was introduced
so that the numbers c1 and c2 would be dimensionless. The latter were
determined by a least squares fit using standard mathematical techniques.

The unit used for calories was kcal/1000g (calories per kilogram). This is
how beer calories are reported in EC countries. All I did was to was to convert
it into other units. Multiplication by FG (beer specific gravity) takes it
to kcal/l, and the liter-oz. conversion factor takes it kcal/12 oz. This is
the form I reported, which I rewrite as follows:

    cal. = (24.495*A + 14.2*(RE  - 0.1))*FG.

The problems that bothered many was the nonlinear formula for A. Rob Bradley
brought this out nicely. Boy if people get worked up by the alcohol formula,
they should see what we use for hops. There is not anything even remotely
linear about any of them. 

As far as the other issue is concerned, I personally do not see anything
wrong with the "factor of 4" conversion from Plato to spec. gr. The only
point I wanted to make was that it was not exact. In particular, Mike Hall's
analysis seems entirely reasonable. 

Perhaps the following examples might clarify these issues a bit. The data
was taken from the German trade journal Brauindustrie. Their column "500
Biere aus aller Welt" gives numerical profiles of beer brewed throughout
the world. The measurements were done at Weihenstephan so the numbers are
very good. The only exception was Michelob whose data I got from AB. The
numbers are in % by weight ( grams per 100 grams), except those for calories.

Paulaner Salvator
- ------------------
Measured data:
          OE = 18.3 (1.076 or 1.073 for the factor of four types)
          RE = 6.78 (1.027)
          AE = 4.24 (1.017)
          A = 6.17% wt.
          kcal/1000g = 693
          kcal/12oz. = 693*1.017*12/33.8144 = 250.1
Balling's formulas:
          RE = .8192*4.24 + .1808*18.3 = 6.78
          A = (18.3 - 6.78)/(2.0665 -.010665*18.3) = 6.16% wt.
EBC formula:
          kcal/12 oz. = (24.495*6.16 + 14.2*6.68)*1.017 = 249.9

By the way the linear wine formula A=100*(OG-FG) gives

       A = 100*(1.073 - 1.017) = 5.6% wt.

I frankly feel most homebrewers could have gotten a better estimate
by actually tasting a glass of Salvator and guessing. The wine formulas
do better at lower OGs, but my interest in accuracy wanes as well. Having
said this I should also say that "acceptable accuracy" falls into the area
of personal opinion, and thus is not amenable to rational analysis. 
 
My main interest in formulas for alcohol and calories is for dopplebocks and
barley wines. I wanted something better than "sloppy Joe" numbers not only
to monitor personal consumption, but also as a reference for friends and
neighbors who help me drink the beer I brew.

Michelob
- ----------
Measured data:
   OE = 12.0 
   RE = 4.53
   AE = 2.89
   A  = 3.81% wt.
   kcal/12 oz. = 156
Calculated data:
   RE = 4.53
   A = 3.85% wt.
   kcal/12 oz = 158

EKU 28 (!):
- ------------
Measured data:
    OE = 28.8 (1.124; here the factor of 4 gives 1.115)
    RE = 12.22 
    A = 9.42% wt.
    kcal/12oz. = 416.5
Calculated data:
You are not going to believe this, but the formulas for A and kcal/12oz.
are almost exact. I leave this as a homework exercise!

The nonlinear term in Balling's formula is also of historic significance.
The classical Gay-Lussac theory (see page 161 of my book) predicts a formula
like

    A = (OE - RE)/c,

where c is a constant near 2. (Note that OE - RE is the amount of extract
fermentated in grams per 100 grams). This is only the case for liquids
like wine, which for this purpose may be considered as a simple mixture of
glucose (dextrose) and water. Beer wort is far more subtle! This lead to
the modern Embden-Meyerhof-Parnas theory of fermentation (pages 175-184).

There is a practical issue here as well. Note that the denominator

    c = 2.0665 - .010665*OE

decreases as OE increases. Folks,there is more alcohol in our homebrews 
than many may realize, especially those with high OEs. Take care.

Off to Milwaukee!

George Fix



Return to table of contents


Date:  Mon, 8 Jun 92 12:08:29 -0400
From: gerald at zip.eecs.umich.edu
Subject: London pubs & ale

  I am going to London for several days at the end of this week.
Exactly where I am not sure.  I am accompanying my wife on a business
trip.  I guess I'll just have to spend my free time checking out
the pubs as my wife slaves away in the boardroom.  I would like
some suggestions from the digest as to the best pubs, the pubs I
absolutely should not miss, and ale/porter brands I should sample.
Since this is an individual request, maybe it would be best to respond
directly to me.  All suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
  gerald at caen.engin.umich.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: 8 Jun 92 13:29:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Keg pressure release valve question.

Ah, struck it rich, keggingwise, that is.  A friend owns a root beer 
concession truck and is giving me a good used regulator, tank and hoses, 
not to mention kegs.  He just brought over two Coke pin lock kegs.  I'm 
gonng have to replace the O rings, of course, don't like root beer flavored 
beer, but I have a question.

I've never had my hands on a soda keg before.  There are two connections, 
as I would expect.  In the center of those valves, is an area that I can 
press on and the pressure is releaved, or I get squirted with old root 
beer, depending on which one.  There is a bail-like handle to release the 
top.  Is there supposed to be a separate pressure relief valce, something 
other than the centers of the two and three pin valves?  Is it supposed to 
be in the lid?  Have I gotton very old kegs that I shouldn't use?  Can I 
get replacement lids with valves, or am I on the wrong track completely.  
I'm doing this blind, so to speak, 'cause I'm really blind and got tired of 
bottling and spilling.  Let's hear it for kegs, assuming I can get these to 
work.

Now, if I've gotton the wrong kind of kegs, let me down easy like, huh?

Dan Graham



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 13:55 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: immersion chillers/Wyeast lag time

Carl writes (regarding the "coil-in-icewater" chillers):
>
>It has its
>advantages and its disadvantages just as any other method. I depends on
>what you want/need to do.
>
>Advantages:
> - the wort is cooled very quickly like in a counterflow cooler, giving
>   a good cold break.
> - it's a sure thing that the wort is not exposed to infection during
>   its most vulnerable time ( 170F < wort > 70F )
> - the materials are mostly easy to get (a pot, ice, a coil of copper
>   tubing) and there's not alot of permanent`construction' to be done

Also:
 - uses a lot less water than either an immersion chiller or a traditional
   counterflow (some use a closed loop with icewater on the chiller side)
   -- very important in drought-stricken areas!
>
>Disadvantages:
> - you need to concern yourself with the cleanliness of the inside of
>   the tubing
> - you have to jockey yet another pot of water
> - you have to come up with an intake tube that will stand up to boiling
>   wort
> - you have to figure out how to plumb the whole thing together

Also:
 - the cold break ends up in the collection vessel -- you need to siphon
   off the trub again, this time at 70F (increased risk of infection)
>
>
>Carl
>

I'd also like to point out that it's the head (the weight of the column
of liquid above the level of the source vessel of the siphon system) and
the 50 feet of tubing that make starting the siphon so difficult not the
10 feet of hose running down to Frank's basement.  Starting the siphon in
the kitchen with a short length of hose would not help much.  What would
help is lowering the chiller.  How about putting the chiler in the
basement?  Once you see the wort in the tubing, you can let gravity
fill the chiller.  I suggest PE tubing for the hot side -- it stands up
to heat *much* better than the clear tubing.

>Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 12:20:46 EDT
>From: "Theodore R. Jackson Jr." <tj2d at mtaac.bme.Virginia.EDU>
>Subject: Wyeast problems (Re: Wyeast Belgian revisited)
>
>I have also encountered problems (infections) using 
>Wyeast liquid cultures.  At first, I attributed the 
>problems to poor sanitation techniques although I never
>had a problem in any of the 18 previous batches brewed
>with Whitbread ale yeast.  However, a recent attempt to 
>culture Chimay yeast directly from the bottle has lead 
>me to believe otherwise.

Then Ted goes on to suggest that slow starts and not using
a starter probably caused some nasties to take hold before
the Wyeast did.  I concur.  I like Ted's suggestion for
testing your "environment."  Good idea.

I'd like to point out that timing is essential when not using
a starter with Wyeast.  I've successfully made 15 or 20 beers
using Wyeast *without* starters and have not had any infections
with those batches.  (I've since begun using starters for even
faster starts and for cost savings -- I split a package of Wyeast
between three batches -- three 16 oz starters.)  The key, I've
found, is to pitch after the correct amount of incubation.  When
I've used packages that were *completely* swollen (almost to
bursting) I've had slow starts (48-60 hours).  Twice, having pitched
1 month old packages, after only 18 hours of incubation, where the
package was only about an inch thick, I got active fermentation
in about 12 hours.

I theorize, that as in any starter, there is a limited amount of
sugar.  If you pitch the yeast into the fermenter when the yeast
is most active (high krauesen, if  using a starter container you
can see through) your lag time is minimized.  If you wait too
long, the yeast runs out of sugar and goes dormant again.
Another important factor is the temperature difference between
the starter and the wort.  I've noticed an increased lag time from
a five degree difference (colder wort than starter).

Granted, there are other variables, most notably the strain of
yeast, but I think that the importance of timing the pitch with
high krauesen has not been given the proper attention.

Proper timing and matching the wort temperature to the starter
temperature can give lag times close to those of dry yeast.

I guess I've been blessed with a relatively nasty-free basement,
since the long lags have not been a problem.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: 08 Jun 92 15:35:02 EDT
From: Tom Lorelle <70713.2324 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Portland

I'm going to Portland Friday, June 12 for the first time. Anybody in the
area recommend some "must-see" places? Please e-mail me in interest of
keeping bandwith down. Also, for anybody in the LA/Orange Co. area, I'm moving
out of state and have some extra kegs to get rid of.

Thanks,
Tom


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 16:02:05 EDT
From: JOHNREED at BOSTON.VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: 2nd Meeting of Central Mass HB Club

Announcing the second meeting of the *as yet unnamed* HB Club for
the Central Massachusetts/Rhode Island area.

DATE:           Saturday, June 13

TIME:           7:00 PM -- 10:00 PM

WHERE:          Sheraton Milford
                I-495 & Rt. 109, Milford, MA

AGENDA:         Club Officer Nominations
                Club Name Voting
                HB Tasting
                Bring your own HB, labelled (3 max)

CONTACT:        John Reed  (617 895-2158) at work or
                           (508 529-4470) at home

Call me and let me know if you'll attend!  We had *FUN* at the first meeting.
The second meeting should be even better!

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 13:40:26 PDT
From: tpm%wdl58 at wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney)
Subject: An easier way of brewing?

I have recently started using a method for brewing which I find
to be easier than what I was using before and I would be interested
in comments, suggestions or problems people see with it.

Basically, the main change was to start buying one of those 2.5
gallon plastic water jugs.  I use the jug itself to ferment in,
then I just get rid of the jug (my apartment recycling bins won't
take it (only the 2 liter plastic bottles.  Are they recyclable?).

Advantages I've found:

1.  Cleanup is much easier.

2.  I prefer 2.5 gallon batches since it lets me brew as often as I
    did, but I don't end up with the backlog of beer I had before.

3.  No fear of two foot long glass shards.

4.  In general, easier to move around.

5.  No need to wait for cooling to add to carboy.

6.  I can fit the whole thing in the freezer to get it down to pitching
    temperature.

7.  Easier to fit in the fridge.   Before, brewing a lager was not
    a possibility.

8.  I don't have to use Mountain View sparkling tap water.

9.  Faster ferments, quicker settling (I believe this is true, though
    I don't have a large enough sample yet.

10. Since this is a one-shot deal, no problem with getting scratches
    in the jug.


Disadvantages:

1.  Cost.  Though most ingredients are scalable, yeast isn't, so the
    cost (if using Wyeast) would be twice as much per volume.  Also,
    brewing time is not cut in half.  The first isn't a problem since
    I culture my own (actually, it is an advantage as I do not have to
    make a fullsize starter) and the second doesn't bother me.  There is
    the cost of the water and jug, though.

2.  If I make a really good batch, then no one else gets to try any.

3.  Somewhat strange shape of bottle makes blowoff less effective.

4.  Most equipment not made for the Alhambra water bottle (new stoppers, 
    etc.).

5.  Temperature fluctuations more likely.

6.  No obvious way for two-stage fermentaion without taking away some of
    the advantages (ie. I would have to clean out some of the older jugs).


Some questions:

1.  How clean are these bottles likely to be (do I need to give them
    a quick bleach soak)?

2.  I know these bottles are water safe, but are they also beer safe?

3.  Can I recycle these water bottles?

4.  Do I need to preboil the water (I am an extract brewer and I have
    been brewing with 1.5 gallons of water while putting the other
    gallon or so in the freezer, making for a quick pitch)?

5.  Any other problems which come to mind?


Thanks.


________________________________

- --Tim McNerney
- --Loral Western Development Labs
- --(408) 473-4748
- --tpm at wdl1.wdl.loral.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1992 17:25:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Peter W. Karlson" <pk at columbus.dfci.harvard.edu>
Subject: First lager....continues (fwd)


Thanks for all the lager answers....
 
I'm still confused about the temperature issue, after I'm satisfied
that the beer is carbonated, can the beer then travel at a higer
temperature (70 degrees) for a day or so.

 -pk


Return to table of contents


Date: 8 Jun 92  17:03 EST
From: doug at metabolism.bitstream.com
Subject: Adamstown PA Beerfest

          Sorry:

          I forgot if I saw a post about this or not.  Does anybody
          have any information that they could post directly to me
          concerning a beer fest in Adamstown, PA.  I'm not sure if it
          is happening or not, just confirming a rumor.

          Thanks in advance.
          doug connolly
          doug at bitstream.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 13:40:38 PDT
From: ithaca!amber!phoebe at uunet.UU.NET (Phoebe Couch)
Subject: Mead

Mike> I've decided to try to make a batch of mead since I can't 
Mike> find a commercial variety to buy. I've never tasted the stuff,
Mike> I'm just curious. --- The problem is I don't know where to 
Mike> find good honey.  Does anyone know of a good mail order dealer
Mike> or a local place in the Balto-Wash. area to buy bulk honey?

I seem to remember that there is store called Bargetto<spelling> that
sells a mead wine.
The store I have been to is in Monterey(there is another one elsewhere).
They also have a whole bunch of fruit wines, vinegars and wine tasting.

P.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 17:09:23 PDT
From: slover at tacsys.saic.com (Steve Slover)
Subject: Brewclubs in San Diego


Greetings,

Can anyone recommend any brewclubs in the San Diego area?  I would like some
help improving my beer and maybe get some advice to ease the transition to
all grain brewing.  I'm and extract brewer and have been brewing for about
a year.

Thanks.

Steve Slover
slover at tacsys.saic.com		(This address is good for about another week.)
(619) 552-3788

Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #898, 06/09/92