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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  Brewing book (uiucdcs!att!iwtsf!korz)
  Mr. Mossberg's Flame of Mike Fertsch (jhersh)
  Freezing Yeast (Mike Meyer)
  Commonness of ingredient availability (mhalley)
  Re: Killer Party Ale (Darryl Richman)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com


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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 89 18:26:10 CST
From: hplabs!uiucdcs!att!iwtsf!korz
Subject: Brewing book

This is mostly for Ye Olde Batte, but
if one person is having trouble finding
Charlie's book, then maybe more are also.

Call the American Hombrew Association (AHA)
in Boulder, CO at (303)447-0816.  With a
credit card, you can order everything from
"The Complete Joy of Home Brewing" to t-shirts,
coasters, glassware, back-issues for Zymurgy,
Zymurgy subscriptions, etc.  Alternatively,
you could get prices and send a check.

Disclaimer: I'm not associated with the AHA other
than being a member and thus do not benfit at all
if you actually buy anything from them.

Al.

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 89 14:23:36 est
From: jhersh at rdrc.rpi.edu
Subject: Mr. Mossberg's Flame of Mike Fertsch

Mr. Mossberg has, in my opinion, broken some rules of etiquette which we
had been tacitly practicing here on the digest. He has severly berated
Mike, and I think unfairly so. I receive mailings from many homebrew
supplies shops around the country and NONE of them list "Lyle's Syrup"
I had exactly the same questions as mike did regarding the origins
of some of those ingredients, but he asked it first.

Mr. Mossberg you should remember a few things about this digest
1) Many of the people reading it are just getting started and DO NEED to
have many things explained to them, like what Brew Magic is, etc..

2) Up until your flame of Mike this was a friendly forum and even people
with opposing opinions (such as in the discussion of the AHA competition
structure) kept things civil and did not resort to personal attacks

3) Just because you can get certain ingredients where you are (Miami??)
doesn't mean they are available everywhere. I am affiliated with a homebrew
store here in Troy which is one of the biggest in the nation, and certainly
the Northeast and some of the ingredients you listed are not even 
available through our wholesaler, who is one of the nations largest.
One of the most common occurences at the store is when people bring in 
Papazians book and look for ingredients no longer available or ones we 
don't stock. They are typically confused and have to be helped in 
substituting available brands. Recipes which are not brand dependent are
the most useful, especially since if people are unfamiliar with the 
characteristics of the brand you use it becomes difficult to substitute
and acheive something close (notice I said close and not exact, certainly
there are those who are overzealous in their quest to exactly duplicate
recipes, but isn't after all, the point of posting a recipe so that the
person using it can make something similar???)

Oh by the way, Mike works near Boston, not exactly the boonies, and an 
area with quite a good variety of local brewries, brewpubs and supply shops.

If you wish to flame me please keep in mind that my 90 year old grandmother
lives in N. Miami Beach and I may send her by your house to tell you off.

I, and I'm sure Rob G. as well as many others would like to see this remain
a friendly forum and not a flame fest. If you want to flame people you can
join Oleg on Soc.Singles.

- Jay Hersh
(formerly of the Rensselaer Design Research Center, hopefully surfacing
soon at another internet site electronically near you)

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 89 10:51:59 PST
From: meyer at tcville.hac.com (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Freezing Yeast

My original question was "Will inadvertantly freezing dried yeast (in the
packet) cause a reduction in viability?".  I didn't get any responses via
E-mail, or I would have posted them to the list.   I haven't come up with
any good answer yet through my own experience, either.  I've pitched some
yeast from other packets that have been stored in the same refrigerator,
though a different area of the fridge that might not have frozen.  This 
yeast started up with no problems, but I can draw no conclusions from the
data.  For now, I will assume that active dried yeast has enough moisture
in it to be damaged by freezing temperatures, and that it should be stored in
an area of the refrigerator that does not freeze, like the butter drawer.

Can anyone on the list with microbiology experience enlighten us about
the mechanism behind active dried yeast and the factors which affect
viability?  ( I assume that some moisture is required in the yeast for it
to stay viable at all, hence the longer shelf life when refrigerated...)

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, and I realize this has nothing to do with
freezing your cultures, which I have an interest in,  especially with our
psychoactive batches...strictly in the service of science, of course.  It
sounds like the yeast-freezing kits are a bit of a high-priced crock, and
can be easily duplicated using apparatus available from any lab supply
store.  Can any one recommend a book on lab procedures for yeast culture?

Mike Meyer
meyer at tcville.HAC.COM 

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Date:       09 Mar 89 16:50 -0330
From: <mhalley%MUN.BITNET at CORNELLC.ccs.cornell.edu>
Subject:    Commonness of ingredient availability

While I agree that Lyle's Golden Syrup is not
rare or "unusual" to me, personally, I don't
believe you can make the blanket statement
that, if it's not available where you live,
you must be in the "boonies."  I have lived
for extended periods in California, Maryland,
Maine, and Newfoundland.  I believed that
certain commodities were found on the shelves
of EVERY supermarket in the world.  Little
did I know.  Mexican and Chinese items were
not to be found in Maryland (at least not
where I was), Maine had never heard of
hominy, and ripe black olives were only
available in bulk at gourmet specialty shops
in Newfoundland (plus no hominy there, either.)
I have lived in communities where there were
stores that sold Lyle's, and where there
were not.  It is a British product, and is
therefore available everywhere in Newfoundland.
I never saw it in Maryland.  In California
and in Maine I had to know WHERE to get it.
That was the reason I asked about the
availability of Geordie products in the
States.  I might add that NOBODY came back
telling me where they were available.  I
had one answer (or question) asking me
about my brewing methods with this product,
as the questioner had some and wanted to
make best use of same.  Foodways differ all
over North America -- that's why we have
"regional" cooking.  Right now I'm filling
up on donairs, salt fish and brewis, cod
tongues, and (get this) fish and chips WITH
dressing and gravy and peas and onions.
When I'm in California, I intend to pig
out on Mexican and Middle Eastern food and
tri-tips steaks and Jocko beans.  That way,
when I go to the UK, I'll be ready to try
new stuff and my tummy won't be so homesick
for what I left behind.

Chances are, you'll find SOME source for
Lyle's Golden Syrup in any major North
American city, but you may have to try
Brit import shops.  Don't be a snob.

Warmth,
"Ye Olde Batte"(MHALLEY at MUN.CA"

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 89 08:42:56 PST
From: Darryl Richman <darryl at ism780c.isc.com>
Subject: Re: Killer Party Ale

From: a.e.mossberg <aem at mthvax.miami.edu>
"Lyle's Golden Syrup is hardly an "unusual" ingredient or a "shop brand". It
"is a very well-known product from Britain.  Perhaps meccad.ray.com is in the
"boonies?  Lyle's Golden Syrup is a brand of cane sugar syrup.  BrewMagic is
"-- you guessed it -- enzymes.  It was pretty obvious, and it is also a very
"widely distributed brand.  I'm surprised you didn't ask me the alpha acid
"of the hops too. 

Well, let me chime in to say that I've never heard of either of these
products.  If I suggested that you use Karo Syrup, would you know that
it's corn sugar syrup?  And frankly, I would be interested in more
details about BrewMagic.  If I tell you that I've used some brand of
"Burtonizing Salts", it really doesn't tell you much about it, does
it?  What enzymes, what proportions?  (This is not a picky nit;
enzymes such as papain can be used as a clarifier.)

"Party Killer Ale is somewhat close to Carlsberg Elephant Malt Liquor.

And since yesterday's digest had a guess that Killer Party Ale was
going to end up as an old ale, it is useful to give at least a
category.

"Now, on one hand you have these people who want each little detail in a 
"recipe, because apparently a beer is not worth making unless they can
"specifically duplicate it down to a chemical level.

This isn't really what we're after (well, I assume "we");  but the more
we know about your experiences, the better we can apply them to ours.
I haven't ever made anything remotely like Killer Party Ale, and so it
is a completely new datapoint for me;  tell me more about it!

"Then you have these other people who keep saying "experiment", "try different
"things", "be creative".

Exactly--but the point of experimenting is to fill in gaps of
knowledge.

"And curiously, they're the same people, just on different days.
"
"Sounds like a job for sci.psychology to me.

I just said it in the last few sentences!  Sign me up for the Zippy
Award.

		--Darryl Richman

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