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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  More about Lyle's Golden (mhalley)
  freezing of yeasties (Michael Bergman)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #98 (March 10, 1989) (high heat!) (a.e.mossberg)
  delayed responses (Algis R Korzonas +1 312 979 8583)

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Date:       10 Mar 89 11:26 -0330
From: <mhalley%MUN.BITNET at CORNELLC.ccs.cornell.edu>
Subject:    More about Lyle's Golden

OOPS|
One thing I forgot to mention about Lyle's
Golden Syrup -- and a VERY important point
on this hotline -- is that it is a GROCERY
product, NOT a BREWER'S product|  I didn't
think of that until the gent with the brew
store said he didn't know of it and somebody
mentioned Karo.  You'll find it with the
pancake syrups and stuff.  It's REALLY good
for that sort of thing.  I have NEVER used
it in any of my alcoholic endeavours.
By the way, speaking of syrups and continuing
where I left off yesterday, sorghum generally
unavailable in Maine and Nfld.  Also LIGHT
molasses (like Brer Rabbit brand).  And Nfld.
has no WHITE corn syrup except just before
Christmas.  BUT, Nfld. DOES have a market
that purveys fresh-squeezed O.J. in the
produce dept., like Calif., while I was in
areas in Maine and Maryland where one was
lucky to find frozen instead of canned.

I totally agree about the flames.  This is
a forum for the exchange of information, not
a debating society where we're out to prove
the other guy (or gal) wrong.  There have
certainly been points raised in the past
with which I've disagreed.  I HOPE I voiced
that disagreement in a manner less than
disagreeABLE.  At least I try.

What about Geordie?  Any answers?  I really
like my results and am currently too
nomadic to really get creative/innovative.

Cheers to all,
"Ye Olde Batte"(MHALLEY at MUN.CA)

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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 89 10:24:49 est
From: Michael Bergman <bergman%odin.m2c.org at RELAY.CS.NET>
Subject: freezing of yeasties

It is my understanding that yeast, in adverse conditions, goes through
a process-that-I-have-forgotten-the-technical-name-for and becomes
these little nearly indestructible "thingies" {I want to say
"enspores" and "spores" but suspect that these are the wrong technical
terms --ah, if only I had saved my 9th grade bio notes :-)}.  I think
that the active dry yeast is yeast that has been forced into this
state, and what happens is that when it finds suitable conditions to
burst forth into life with renewed vigour (that's a technical
expression) it does so.  Thus, what you want to avoid is marginal life
conditions that might tempt it to burst forth and starve to death
(thus dying the *real* death of heroes) and freezing should help to
keep it "spored up" and safe till you pitch it.  The worst way to
store it would be warm damp conditions...

This is my opinion, and is not represented as fact.  Personally, I
keep my yeast in the butter drawer as Mr. Meyer suggests, mainly so
that I remember that its there because I see it everytime I get an egg
out and thus don't buy fresh yeast by mistake when I feel like
brewing, or worse yet pass up an opportunity to brew because its
midnight and I can't sleep but the brewer's supply houses are *all*
closed.

--mike bergman

bergman at m2c.org

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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 89 11:36:59 EDT
From: a.e.mossberg <aem at mthvax.miami.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #98 (March 10, 1989) (high heat!)

Gosh, various people showing me the error of my ways seem to have almost
filled issue #98.

First up to bat was Jay Hersh, with his: "Mr. Mossberg's Flame of
Mike Fertsch"

>Mr. Mossberg has, in my opinion, broken some rules of etiquette which we
>had been tacitly practicing here on the digest. He has severly berated
>Mike, and I think unfairly so. I receive mailings from many homebrew
>supplies shops around the country and NONE of them list "Lyle's Syrup"
>I had exactly the same questions as mike did regarding the origins
>of some of those ingredients, but he asked it first.

It was hardly a severe beratement, and if it seemed too harsh perhaps it
was my resentment against the to-be-unamed-person who flamed me in the
early days of this list for not giving the specific alpha acid ratings
of the hops used along with an inane question "Should I try it?".  It
came close to convincing me not to bother posting any recipes. BTW, I have
a catalog in front of me which lists Lyles -- Wine & Brew By You. I also
believe I saw it listed in William's -- which is the only other catalog
I have. Let me also point out since it apparently wasn't clear in the message 
that only the first paragraph was aimed at Mike.  The rest was a general shot 
at flamers of recipes.  I can't recall anyone flaming the mead makers for
not specifying the variety of bees producing the honey they used, or for
not giving a specific flower count for the region! I consider this to be
on the same level.  Also, I did point out that the recipe was from Craig
McTyre at Wine & Brew -- any of you could have called that shop for
specifics.  Or written me via email rather than through the list. (As, yes,
I should've sent my response to Mike.)

>3) Just because you can get certain ingredients where you are (Miami??)

Yes, Miami. Way out on the penisula. 

>doesn't mean they are available everywhere. [...]

>substituting available brands. Recipes which are not brand dependent are
>the most useful, especially since if people are unfamiliar with the 
>characteristics of the brand you use it becomes difficult to substitute
>and acheive something close (notice I said close and not exact, certainly
>there are those who are overzealous in their quest to exactly duplicate
>recipes, but isn't after all, the point of posting a recipe so that the
>person using it can make something similar???)

Lyle's Golden Syrup, I've been told, is non-substitutable.  It is supposed
to have a flavor unequaled in other cane syrups.  I'll check again if you
like.

Then mhalley in a far more polite tone points out (in "Commonness of 
ingredient availability"):

[reformatted to 80 columns]

>While I agree that Lyle's Golden Syrup is not rare or "unusual" to me, 
>personally, I don't believe you can make the blanket statement that, if it's 
>not available where you live, you must be in the "boonies."  

Quite right.  My apologies.

[...]
>Chances are, you'll find SOME source for Lyle's Golden Syrup in any major North
>American city, but you may have to try Brit import shops.  Don't be a snob.

Then Darryl Richman says in "Re: Killer Party Ale":

>Well, let me chime in to say that I've never heard of either of these
>products.  If I suggested that you use Karo Syrup, would you know that
>it's corn sugar syrup?  And frankly, I would be interested in more
>details about BrewMagic.  If I tell you that I've used some brand of
>"Burtonizing Salts", it really doesn't tell you much about it, does
>it?  What enzymes, what proportions?  (This is not a picky nit;
>enzymes such as papain can be used as a clarifier.)

>And since yesterday's digest had a guess that Killer Party Ale was
>going to end up as an old ale, it is useful to give at least a
>category.
[...]

Yep, I should've given more detail as the type initially.  I still have the
mimeographed recipe here so let me give you verbatim, how it's described.

	WOW! This recipe will give you the taste of the Carlsberg
	Brewery's "high-alcohol" special export beer. It has a 
	beautiful golden color with a smooth follow-through, and
	one "hell-of-a-finish"...as you will notice after just 2 in
	an evening. Truly delicious.

aem
--
a.e.mossberg aem at mthvax.miami.edu MIAVAX::AEM (Span) aem at umiami.BITNET (soon)
Muchos de ellos, por complacer a tiranos, por un punado de monedas, o por 
cohecho o soborno, estan derramando la sangre de sus hermanos. - Emiliano Zapata

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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 89 11:14:53 CST
From: hplabs!uiucdcs!iwtsf!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 312 979 8583)
Subject: delayed responses

I would like to make a general statment about why I sometimes
take a long time to respond to questions to which I know the answers.
Others may also be of the same philosophy.  Two reasons:
1) I live in the Chicago area.  When someone from the east coast
or west coast asks for a source for a book or product, I wait to
see if someone knows a local source.  
2) I'm not a super-expert (I've only been brewing 2 years) and
although I might know the answer to a question, I usually wait
for someone more qualified than me to answer first.  Now that
I think of it, this may be a bit of a burden to the "experts."
The reason I'm bringing this up is that I sort-of guilty when
I read "...three months ago I asked...and got no response..."
I suggest that requestors bear the above in mind and wait till after
the second request to raise the VOLUME on pleas.  Maybe I feel so
guilty because I've got, as Richard Lewis put it, "an extra G chromosome"
or maybe I should just Relax, Don't Worry, and Have a Homebrew.

Here's a sample late response:

Geordie products are available (in my area) from:

The Lil' Olde Winemaking Shoppe (Sugar Grove, IL) (312)557-2523
and
Winemakers (Elmhurst, IL) (312)834-0507

I believe they both will ship or at least you could get the name
of their distributor/importer who could give you a local retailer.

Al.

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